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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
970
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Posted - 2014.02.09 04:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
remove and rebalance some slots on suits and add them back as utility slots. then remove all modules that could be deemed as utility such as hacking, damage mods etc and place these in the utility section for fittings.
at the moment i'm getting tired of this whole assault logi argument. it is completely screwing over dedicated logis who do nothing wrong.
this simple but effective fix would put offending items into a separate class and reduce the fitting options on those suits. scouts would have high utility slot count followed by assault then commandos and heavies then logis would be lowest.
now logis can run high ehp as normal and actually survive more than a few secs and assaults can fit more damage or more tank as they see fit or a bit of both
scouts become strong utility users, assaults become better killers and logis become less good at killing
I will logi the s* out of you
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
53
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Posted - 2014.02.09 04:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
so anything not HP related is utility, right? intresting, though it could use a better description or perhaps a list containing all the items you think should be utility.
i like this idea so far. please tell me more.
yes, i do agree thoguh that this whole 'killer bee' argument is getting out of hand and you really cant nerf them without hurting the dedicated, real logistics soldiers. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
971
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Posted - 2014.02.09 04:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
hacking, damage mods, (not the melee one) dampners, scan range. cpu/pg etc
umm maybe they should be enhancement slots and enhancement modules
tank wize everyone would have potentially the same tank fitting potential but dependant on utility and equipment this would reduce that potential. for logis it would be the equipment and for everyone else it would be utility that reduces their tank potential. depending on how they wanted to work it
I will logi the s* out of you
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Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
66
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Posted - 2014.02.09 04:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Before I reply to this I would really like to see a list of items you considered as not effecting HP.
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
971
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Posted - 2014.02.09 04:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Twelve Guage wrote:Before I reply to this I would really like to see a list of items you considered as not effecting HP.
not affecting hp directly but affecting suit/weapon potential
I will logi the s* out of you
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General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
53
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Posted - 2014.02.09 04:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Twelve Guage wrote:Before I reply to this I would really like to see a list of items you considered as not effecting HP. if you are talking to no, well, i mean anything that adds hp or helps to recover hp.
armor repairers, shield energizers, shield rechargers, shield extenders, all armor plates those are all the ones i know of
if your talking to him, then excuse me, its like 12:00 pm over here so my brain is fried. |
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois
Maphia Clan Corporation
159
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Posted - 2014.02.09 11:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Assault suits already have 1 equipment slot, I'm assuming you're suggesting to remove it.
About the Logistic armors, your idea is not that bad IF you give them high starting stat's: right now even PRO suits have Shield and Armor ranging from 90 to 180 HP: if you prevent them from increasing their HP they'll become totally useless since even a MLT AR will tear them apart. If you let them have, for example, Shield/Armor HP ranging from 250 to 300 then we can talk about this.
If you are an hacker, a cheater o a glitcher, you deserve death. In real life.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
974
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Posted - 2014.02.09 11:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote:Assault suits already have 1 equipment slot, I'm assuming you're suggesting to remove it.
About the Logistic armors, your idea is not that bad IF you give them high starting stat's: right now even PRO suits have Shield and Armor ranging from 90 to 180 HP: if you prevent them from increasing their HP they'll become totally useless since even a MLT AR will tear them apart. If you let them have, for example, Shield/Armor HP ranging from 250 to 300 then we can talk about this.
it would take a complete rework of suit loadout including starting stats to balance but the new bonuses would potentially be ok to remain unchanged
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
982
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Posted - 2014.02.11 16:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
at a basic level with no fittings logis and assaults would be virtually the same apart from cpu/pg being the main difference. howether like i said before they would tip to 1 side or the other. dps,utility for assaults and equipment for logis.
either would be able to forgo dps,utility or equipment or max out in those instead sacrificing ehp but an assault could never fit more/better equipment than a logi and a logi could never fit more/better dps/utility mods than assault.
if someone wants to maximise potential then they must choose a suit better suited to it.
with this we have
excellent logibro or heavily tanked frontline medic with marginal dps increase excellent dps/utility assaulter or heavily tanked with marginal dps increase
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
984
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Posted - 2014.02.12 17:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
bump
I will logi the s* out of you
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
84
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Posted - 2014.02.13 01:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
A different solution:
1. Make Damage Mods fit the same slots as Grenades.
2. Give Assaults 3 DM/G slots. (See what I did there?) Logis only get one.
Assaults can have up to 3 Damage Mods or 3 Grenades or any combo thereof. Logis can only pick one of either.
Results:
- Assaults still get to play offence, and maybe add an extra Shield or two.
- Logis could no longer stack Damage Mods and would be less inclined to play Slayer Mode.
Note: They would be no changes to Equipment slots.
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killertojo42
Sardaukar Merc Guild
1
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Posted - 2014.02.13 02:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:remove and rebalance some slots on suits and add them back as utility slots. then remove all modules that could be deemed as utility such as hacking, damage mods etc and place these in the utility section for fittings.
at the moment i'm getting tired of this whole assault logi argument. it is completely screwing over dedicated logis who do nothing wrong.
this simple but effective fix would put offending items into a separate class and reduce the fitting options on those suits. scouts would have high utility slot count followed by assault then commandos and heavies then logis would be lowest.
now logis can run high ehp as normal and actually survive more than a few secs and assaults can fit more damage or more tank as they see fit or a bit of both
scouts become strong utility users, assaults become better killers and logis become less good at killing
so basicly logis have more equipment and less utility. their direct opposite i.e the assault would receive more utility and less equipment
EDIT:
with this they can both potentially meet balanced to a degree in the middle but they can only excel in 1 direction. logis would excel at equipment and assaults at dps/utility Good points except assault fits only have one equipment slot to begin with but I did find a compelling argument in another thread, if CCP significantly and by that I mran drastically increased the amount of ammo assault suits carried than it'd be plausible to remove the equipment slot off assault suits but only if they also remove the OP healing nanohives so logis can't be more powerful
When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance
31
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Posted - 2014.02.13 02:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
This is why scout suits are doing so poorly, logistics should be what the name implies logistics.
Logistics: Indirectly increasing the combat effectiveness of your team aka what the word means:
Merriam-Webster says, "the things that must be done to plan and organize a complicated activity or event that involves many people."
Scouts should be the ones primarily concerned with hacking and dampeners and scanners. Assaults should be primarily concerned with ehp and damage mods.
Logi suits break the current meta by being adaptable to all three roles. That's why CCP is reworking them.
Edit: Yes you can use whatever you can fit to your suit, IE hacking logis, heavies, scouts, or assault suits, but a certain suit should be the most optimal. Right now, logis can outclass scouts and assaults with their superior high and low slot counts and higher PG/CPU. The logis potential that can't be touched by the other classes is their higher equipment slots. If they just lowered their high and low slot counts they could even return their side arms to the gal/cal/minnie logis as long as they just make sure they can't use scout roles and assault roles better than scout roles and assault roles. Scout and Assaults can't carry multiple equipments, so why can Logis had higher ehp/damage mods or more hacking/damp/scanning? |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
997
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Posted - 2014.02.13 16:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:This is why scout suits are doing so poorly, logistics should be what the name implies logistics.
Logistics: Indirectly increasing the combat effectiveness of your team aka what the word means:
Merriam-Webster says, "the things that must be done to plan and organize a complicated activity or event that involves many people."
Scouts should be the ones primarily concerned with hacking and dampeners and scanners. Assaults should be primarily concerned with ehp and damage mods.
Logi suits break the current meta by being adaptable to all three roles. That's why CCP is reworking them.
Edit: Yes you can use whatever you can fit to your suit, IE hacking logis, heavies, scouts, or assault suits, but a certain suit should be the most optimal. Right now, logis can outclass scouts and assaults with their superior high and low slot counts and higher PG/CPU. The logis potential that can't be touched by the other classes is their higher equipment slots. If they just lowered their high and low slot counts they could even return their side arms to the gal/cal/minnie logis as long as they just make sure they can't use scout roles and assault roles better than scout roles and assault roles. Scout and Assaults can't carry multiple equipments, so why can Logis have higher ehp/damage mods or more hacking/damp/scanning?
Edit 2: As to the remove scout and assault equipment's entirely logis get more slots, that doesn't mean they only get those slots. Following that logic then logis should have a sidearm only.
this is exactly what i'm getting at in this post. the logi role is so vast in ability and the others only have a few roles they can fill. this means logis can be adapted to any role easily which is good in a way but bad for balancing. it is not right logis should be balanced as assault logis because of a minority of users. changing suits as i suggested means that whatever suit, they will be the only ones who can maximise their own potential in their main role yet they can dabble in any other role but never be able to match the suit specificly for that role.
this means no more assault logis out doing assaults, logis out dampening scouts, logis with more ehp than heavies etc etc
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1067
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Posted - 2014.02.22 23:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkRlTfAtE28
I will logi the s* out of you
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
973
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Posted - 2014.02.23 03:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Your idea has some merit which means it will never get any traction. Good luck.
The reason many use Logi suits for assault is the assault suits suck at the game in its current state.
Assaults need two equip slots to fix the scanner being forced on many players (the ganked ones coming in 1.8 will make that situation worse). It isn't going to change because CCP/Shanghai cannot imagine a player doing what the player wants, only playing the very restrictive CCP/Shanghai limits them to.
Which might well explain the user base shrinking since Uprising.
And so it goes.
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Villanor Aquarius
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
136
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Posted - 2014.02.23 04:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nerf weapon damage it, give significant bonues to various weapons on the appropriate suits, aka assault class bonus be 5% damage to light weapons while all light weapons do 25% less damage than they currently do but assaults do the same.
Make all EHP modules expensive to fit and more effective so current tanks are achieved with fewer modules but you can't afford to fill every slot with these. Make utility modules cheap fitting wise so these now empty slots get filled with some sort of utility. |
Paul Ellinas
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
33
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Posted - 2014.02.23 04:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Check the suits stats for 1.8 they will fix the assault logi thing. Assault suits will have HP buff. There will be no point in running a assault logi. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1074
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Posted - 2014.02.23 10:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Paul Ellinas wrote:Check the suits stats for 1.8 they will fix the assault logi thing. Assault suits will have HP buff. There will be no point in running a assault logi.
assault logi will not change at all. cal logi is going to be assault logi of the month again due to massive triage hive bonuses. do i go for a hundred or so extra ehp or do i go for 280+ reps per sec from hives.
put everything about 1.8 in the back of your mind and look at the facts of what makes say an assault logi or scout logi etc. we have massive slot amounts and the availability of every module to convert our logi suit into any other role and be just as good if not better. each one of these makeshift suits still carries its full compliment of equipment for the most part so even in 1.8 the equipment bonus will still free up cpu/pg for them to fit those modules that allow them to be those roles regardless of any presumed cpu/pg decrease. the only difference is assault logi will be marginally less effective than the assault but still ultimately more powerful due to equipment. the problem with this is support logis are going to be a lot less effective support logis.
you will see nothing will change for assault logis while support logis die by the thousands oe suffer massive losses due to huge suit price increases and will eventually give up the role.
my suggestion lets you choose how effective you can be in a certain direction but limits it also so as not to be more powerful than those who's suits are designed for that role. this would also potentially balance out suit fitting costs throughout the roles. afteral why should my full proto logi suit cost 100k isk more than a full proto assault suit especially with the equipment nerf and lower wp earning potential
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1087
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Posted - 2014.02.25 22:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
still want
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1154
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Posted - 2014.04.03 19:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
bump
I will logi the s* out of you
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
850
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Posted - 2014.04.03 19:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:hacking, damage mods, (not the melee one) dampners, scan range. cpu/pg etc
umm maybe they should be enhancement slots and enhancement modules
tank wize everyone would have potentially the same tank fitting potential but dependant on utility and equipment this would reduce /increase that potential. for logis it would be the equipment and for everyone else it would be utility that reduces their tank potential. depending on how they wanted to work it Although you seem to be interested in balancing things, I will take this opportunity to point out to you that the way it is now we are able to pick to tank or run electronic tanks (damps and scan mods) or run gank (bottles and damage mods) or dual tank or even a combination of any of the above quite easily. Where is there a benefit to what you propose? Atm we have the ability to make a decision which slots are "utility" and which are not, so I would say the current system works quite well. Besides, not all players use what you term utility mods so how do you take their wishes into account with your proposal?
LogiGod earns his pips
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1155
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Posted - 2014.04.03 20:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:hacking, damage mods, (not the melee one) dampners, scan range. cpu/pg etc
umm maybe they should be enhancement slots and enhancement modules
tank wize everyone would have potentially the same tank fitting potential but dependant on utility and equipment this would reduce /increase that potential. for logis it would be the equipment and for everyone else it would be utility that reduces their tank potential. depending on how they wanted to work it Although you seem to be interested in balancing things, I will take this opportunity to point out to you that the way it is now we are able to pick to tank or run electronic tanks (damps and scan mods) or run gank (bottles and damage mods) or dual tank or even a combination of any of the above quite easily. Where is there a benefit to what you propose? Atm we have the ability to make a decision which slots are "utility" and which are not, so I would say the current system works quite well. Besides, not all players use what you term utility mods so how do you take their wishes into account with your proposal?
i think your missing the point.
what im getting at is currently ( a few examples below)
if i want to use arm tank i cannot use hacking/dampening/scanning range,cpu/pg mods, speed and stamina mods but i have high slots which only offer me the opertunity to fit more shield tank,damage mods,scan strength mods.
shield on the other hand can fit shield tank in both the highs and lows or can sacrifice regen to fit more ehp in the form of armor or access all those other utility mods listed above.
if you use dampening and speed mods then you cannot fit tank or damage
with what i suggest you can fit your tank and still have access to all the other mods. to what degree you fit your suit is upto you but your not restricted by your tank choice. suit choice and cpu/pg would be the only restriction to what amount in each of the slot types you can fit meaning suits specifically designed to do a specific job would be best at doing that job never to be overtaken by another suit.
a logi will always be the best at equipment but not be able to be a super scout or killer a scout will always be able to dampen and hack better than any other class an assault would always be able to do more light weapon damage than any other class
this would put balance in the players hands without letting them completely tip the balance of a suit like they did with assault logis pre1.8 or the sentinals in 1.8
I will logi the s* out of you
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Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
43
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Posted - 2014.04.03 22:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
-1 this will limit the capabilities of all drop suites !!! How much utility slots should who suite have??? how much CPU/PG??? I personally like that you don't have to skill in to allot of suites to change your game style using the " utility " modules.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1165
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Posted - 2014.04.03 22:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Odigos Ellinas wrote:-1 this will limit the capabilities of all drop suites !!! How much utility slots should who suite have??? how much CPU/PG??? I personally like that you don't have to skill in to allot of suites to change your game style using the " utility " modules.
how.... you saying arm tanked doesn't limit you massively or shield tanked or even speed tanks . they all limit you.
the problem with this game is most suits are able to out do other suits not designed for that suits role.
just look at 1.8. sentinel's running rampant with light weapons mowing down everything in sight, cloaked assaults.logistics and commando's with more dps and ehp than scouts.
the balance of this game is screwed up. something needs to be done to allow suits to be master of their own class and none others to come close. otherwise what's the point of different classes, they might aswell make all suits identical
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1248
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Posted - 2014.04.18 09:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
i had another thought on this and much like i suggested but with a difference. i was thinking what is we made it on the lines of eve high slots. if you play eve you will know what i mean. in eve high slots are nothing like any other slots in eve or dust. they are restricted in fittings by how many turret/weapon hardpoints are available and sometimes you have more slots than you are allowed to fit weapons.
what if like i suggested we have equipment and utility hardpoints but all in 1 bar and called utility hardpoints. these points would be restricted by the suit you wear as to how many of your slots can be equipment or other modules. this then gives you the flexibility to customise your role without outdoing another suit specifically for that role
lets say for example (at proto)
mini logi 6 utility slots (3 equipment, 2 utility, 1 universal)
mini assault 6 utility slots (0 equipment, 5 utility, 1 universal)
mini scout 5 utility slots (1 equipment, 3 utility, 1 universal)
mini heavy 2 utility slots (0 equipment, 2 utility, 0 universal)
mini commando 3 utility slots (0 equipment, 2 utility, 1 universal)
thats just an example but as you can see it gives you some flexibility in your ability to change your role but not allow you to out do other classes
I will logi the s* out of you
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