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TYCHUS MAXWELL
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
10
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Posted - 2014.02.08 22:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
"This thread reminds me of all the tanks are gonna be doomed!" Threads before 1.7 launched. IE, the community was aware of the specs but they either A) ignored the hardeners and passive hp bonuses thinking an extra 1000-2000 armor mattered without high resistance hardeners or B) were trolling the community.
As much as I don't want to believe that CCP will go overboard, they are going to almost surely go overboard with the changes.
The passive resistance on heavies is going to make them chew up medium suits. They will need healz! people naively say. You don't need heals on a heavy, I can run 6.8k isk heavy machine gun fits that can down quite a few people and chew up proto assaults/logis without reps and that's before the passive resistances are added. You don't have to have active repairs to kill more than you die in heavy suits, you just have to have a positive K/DR and you are well on your way to pulling your weight on your team if you are doing this at objectives.
Light suits though pitiful at the moment I expect to see in 1.8 running around with militia shotguns and cloaks. Unless there is a huge delay between uncloaking and firing, players will just cloak right up to targets and make their rag doll fold in half. From what CCP has shared, the cloaks can last for many seconds which gives scouts plenty of time to sprint to a new target in cityscapes. If you think scout shottys are bad now, they will be a part of the FOTG along with any sort of heavy in 1.8.
Its not hard to see when we do get the stats what is going to be overpowered, like that of Rail Rifles. People were likewise saying, well that .2 seconds is a big deal! Not big enough to ignore the massive effective range advantage over other rifles and the same damage as a freakin' breach assault rifle.
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knight of 6
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1369
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
I don't see it...
"God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon
Ko6, scout.
CLOSED BETA VET
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
10
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:I don't see it...
That's ok, somehow people didn't see tanks514 either, when they were given much more speed, heavy resistance hardeners, and passive regen for armor tanks while giving shield tanks 2000 regen per second on actives, all while nerfing av across the board and there were constant tank QQ threads saying tanks were going to be unusable, because this community has the foresight of a mole.
One thing I have learned about the community of this game since I started playing last summer. Most of the community didn't invest SP into arithmetic and game theory. |
KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
4491
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Assaults and Logis will be about as rare in 1.8 as a commando is in 1.7. I'm calling it now, DUST514 in 1.8 will be the equivalent of 'Supersize vs Super-Skinny', only instead of Supersized Mc Donalds meals and KFC Family Buckets for one vs Celery Sticks and Graham Crackers, we will see HMG's and Core Locust Grenades vs Breach Shoutguns and Remote Explosives.
I think you are wrong.
Med frames will always have an important place in the battlefield.
They are Balance.
They are versatility.
Scouts are fast and have cloaks.But have a limit to how much HP they can have. Not everybody can play successfully with 450 HP OR LESS.Everything sounds fancy until you think of a full enemy proto squad with Prroto scanners on gallente Logis vs you....
Heavies will be Damage sponges and powerful offensive behemoths,but they are fitted with the WORST of all E-war stuff. They will never detect anything besides near Shooting un-dampened Med frames and other heavies, while every single other personknows where they are at all times,which is, by definition in an FPS, the ultimate disadvantage.
MEd Frames will still be able to transform their suits to be the thing they need to be, from stealth ,to HP tanked.
From the Minmatar Assault with High speed and DAmage modded Combat rifle, To the HP tanked Cal and Gal Heavies, To the useless Amarr Assault that loyalist will still use for the lulz,to the Zerg Storm Summoning Amarr logi to the Flawless Radar Gallente Logi; i doubt MEd frames will dissapear....
Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
10
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Assaults and Logis will be about as rare in 1.8 as a commando is in 1.7. I'm calling it now, DUST514 in 1.8 will be the equivalent of 'Supersize vs Super-Skinny', only instead of Supersized Mc Donalds meals and KFC Family Buckets for one vs Celery Sticks and Graham Crackers, we will see HMG's and Core Locust Grenades vs Breach Shoutguns and Remote Explosives. I think you are wrong.Med frames will always have an important place in the battlefield. They are Balance.
They are versatility.Scouts are fast and have cloaks.But have a limit to how much HP they can have. Not everybody can play successfully with 450 HP OR LESS.Everything sounds fancy until you think of a full enemy proto squad with Prroto scanners on gallente Logis vs you.... Heavies will be Damage sponges and powerful offensive behemoths,but they are fitted with the WORST of all E-war stuff. They will never detect anything besides near Shooting un-dampened Med frames and other heavies, while every single other person knows where they are at all times,which is, by definition in an FPS, the ultimate disadvantage.
MEd Frames will still be able to transform their suits to be the thing they need to be, from stealth ,to HP tanked. From the Minmatar Assault with High speed and DAmage modded Combat rifle, To the HP tanked Cal and Gal Assaults, To the useless Amarr Assault that loyalist will still use for the lulz,to the Zerg Storm Summoning Amarr logi to the Flawless Radar Gallente Logi; i doubt MEd frames will dissapear....
Oh no the proto logi that cost 80k+ isk just detected my 3k isk shotgun light dropsuit, woe is me imma die. Oh what's that? They lost 360 spinning and scanned in the wrong direction and are now on cooldown, dinner is served...
Oh no I can't see the guys before they run to the objective I am covering with my heavy, oh wait I see one, dead... |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
640
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
I think initially sure, there will be an influx of whatever people think is going to get the best bonuses. People tend to chase whatever they feel will be the next FOTM.
Give it some time and everything will balance itself out, people will see the need for a logi even if they are not as effective. Eventually people are going to get tired being slow as hell and weak as hell and will find their way back to the Assaults.
And if 1.8 does launch in March we may even get another balance sweep before fanfest, who knows what will change. |
Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6762
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Yes, let's all ignore the assault bonuses and logi bonuses and pretend heavies and scouts will be the next flavor of the month.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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ALPHA DECRIPTER
Dragon-Empire
716
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:Komodo Jones wrote:real logies will still be logies because we need them, there will be gunfighters that don't want to be slower than balls and the assault will actually give them an edge over logies, there will be alot more scouts because the ninja in us all will finally have a chance to come out.
I can see heavies being a new abused fit though, no bonus to heavy weapons and heavy weapons are crap, we'll be seeing alot of tanked heavies with rail rifles and combat rifles.
Although CCP logibro said that the rail rifle will be hit with the nerf bat in 1.8 and there will be other changes to the rifles and guns in general so maybe heavy weapons will actually be useful. So the ninja went in the closet, then the assault did too, now im mad, so I pull out my gun! You better come out or I cap some *****! 1! 2! 3!oh, this is nice
South park! XD
1! I'm gonna shoot you both
2! I'm gonna cap some b****
3! *closet door opens* *R. Kelly walks in* *Closet door closes*
Oh, this is nice.
Scout Tactician
Dance puppets, DANCE!
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
10
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Yes, let's all ignore the assault bonuses and logi bonuses and pretend heavies and scouts will be the next flavor of the month.
i pretty much ignore them right now, they aren't big game changer and won't be later, a cloak and passive resistance on a tanky suit (That's % reduction which means the more shielding and armor aka a heavy suit the more effective EHP heavies will have).
Who cares about rate of fire if your mag dump doesn't kill them/you can't see them.
Game theory has to be approached from the bigger picture not this, "Well I can think of one way to counter this, that is ineffective against many other things."
I know adv/proto forge guns can wreck militia tanks, this doesn't make tanks balanced towards av.
I know sniper rifles and CQC can wreck a rail rifle some of the time, this doesn't make rail rifles balanced.
I know you can outrange a combat rifle with a rail rifle/laser rifle/sniper rifle, this doesn't make combat rifles balanced.
Balance is only achieved when weapons and suits have trade offs that make them relatively effective, imbalance occurs when the pros outweigh the cons to a strategy. Imbalance is what creates FOTM, why? Because it's simply more effective then other options, which from a game perspective wastes time spent on under powered assets and makes for a much more shallow game for the players.
Hell this whole game currently is a pointless meta game. You can easily burn holes in the wallets of proto spam with gun game and thinking. Everyone though tries to race to proto gear so that they can lose money... Oh you went 32/2? Half those suits were frontline... and you made how much isk after losing 200k+ in suits?
Oh but you need proto gear to get districts to farm isk in PC! Yeah but if you didn't spam proto gear you would never need to district farm in the first place.
This whole game is a catch 22 competitively.
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
901
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
I've always mained scouts, anyways. |
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ALPHA DECRIPTER
Dragon-Empire
719
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Posted - 2014.02.09 00:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:So many people are going to don a scout suit and get torn the shreads and join the "I want more respecs" crowd. Scouts are getting a buff for the people already skilled into them. new people are going to find out it is hard-mode. And that the cloak will be underwhelming.
0(OP) | 1(easy) | 2(normal) | 3(hard) | 4(UP)
Tanks are at 0
Assault/logi are at 2
DS/sentinel is at 3
Commando are 3.5
Scouts are 4
After 1.8
Tanks are at 1 (maybe)
Assaults/Sentinels are at 2
Logis are 2.5
DS/Scouts/commandos are at 3
So to you I say scouts being hard mode is giving real scouts a break.
Scout Tactician
Dance puppets, DANCE!
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
454
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Posted - 2014.02.09 03:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:Komodo Jones wrote:real logies will still be logies because we need them, there will be gunfighters that don't want to be slower than balls and the assault will actually give them an edge over logies, there will be alot more scouts because the ninja in us all will finally have a chance to come out.
I can see heavies being a new abused fit though, no bonus to heavy weapons and heavy weapons are crap, we'll be seeing alot of tanked heavies with rail rifles and combat rifles.
Although CCP logibro said that the rail rifle will be hit with the nerf bat in 1.8 and there will be other changes to the rifles and guns in general so maybe heavy weapons will actually be useful. So the ninja went in the closet, then the assault did too, now im mad, so I pull out my gun! You better come out or I cap some *****! 1! 2! 3!oh, this is nice
R kelly plays this game? huh...maybe I can get some of my friends on here...though they might stay away because they don't wanna get peed on.
This is a signature.
You're now reading it.
You may now reply to my post.
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
287
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Posted - 2014.02.09 03:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:NK Scout wrote:Komodo Jones wrote:real logies will still be logies because we need them, there will be gunfighters that don't want to be slower than balls and the assault will actually give them an edge over logies, there will be alot more scouts because the ninja in us all will finally have a chance to come out.
I can see heavies being a new abused fit though, no bonus to heavy weapons and heavy weapons are crap, we'll be seeing alot of tanked heavies with rail rifles and combat rifles.
Although CCP logibro said that the rail rifle will be hit with the nerf bat in 1.8 and there will be other changes to the rifles and guns in general so maybe heavy weapons will actually be useful. So the ninja went in the closet, then the assault did too, now im mad, so I pull out my gun! You better come out or I cap some *****! 1! 2! 3!oh, this is nice R kelly plays this game? huh...maybe I can get some of my friends on here...though they might stay away because they don't wanna get peed on.
Lol yup
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter mlt frame,
Templar set
Caldari Master Race
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
454
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Posted - 2014.02.09 03:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
WAIT! I GOT IT!
Amarr worships R Kelly, the color of the suits and the ships...he gave them all a golden shower!
It all makes sense now...
This is a signature.
You're now reading it.
You may now reply to my post.
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Appia Vibbia
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1091
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Posted - 2014.02.09 06:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:So many people are going to don a scout suit and get torn the shreads and join the "I want more respecs" crowd. Scouts are getting a buff for the people already skilled into them. new people are going to find out it is hard-mode. And that the cloak will be underwhelming. 0(OP) | 1(easy) | 2(normal) | 3(hard) | 4(UP) Tanks are at 0 Assault/logi are at 2 DS/sentinel is at 3 Commando are 3.5 Scouts are 4 After 1.8 Tanks are at 1 (maybe) Assaults/Sentinels are at 2 Logis are 2.5 DS/Scouts/commandos are at 3 So to you I say scouts being hard mode is giving real scouts a break.
Yes. You get it. Completely. Though I'd rank some of the other things differently, but you are completely correct about the scouts.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
[email protected] (checked every Monday morning)
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
2824
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Posted - 2014.02.09 06:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:So many people are going to don a scout suit and get torn the shreads and join the "I want more respecs" crowd. Scouts are getting a buff for the people already skilled into them. new people are going to find out it is hard-mode. And that the cloak will be underwhelming. 0(OP) | 1(easy) | 2(normal) | 3(hard) | 4(UP) Tanks are at 0 Assault/logi are at 2 DS/sentinel is at 3 Commando are 3.5 Scouts are 4 After 1.8 Tanks are at 1 (maybe) Assaults/Sentinels are at 2 Logis are 2.5 DS/Scouts/commandos are at 3 So to you I say scouts being hard mode is giving real scouts a break. Yes. You get it. Completely. Though I'd rank some of the other things differently, but you are completely correct about the scouts.
I bet you this is gonna happen.
*Someone looks at the scout stats, thinks of it as a light assault*
*specs into it in 1.8*
*Plays it like an assault (walking straight down hallways, always taking the most direct route etc etc)*
*Gets murdered from trying to take on squads of 3+ people*
*rages*
*comes to the forums to complain*
It'll happen, I'm calling it right now.
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Vesperz
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
The Umbra Combine
27
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Posted - 2014.02.09 07:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Psht, I'm just going to spec fully back into Minmatar scout anyway. 
Live by honor, kill by stealth.
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Ulme Mees
Rautaleijona
Top Men.
116
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Posted - 2014.02.09 10:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
Oh yeah I would like to see alot of scouts on the battlefield, I do seriosly hope they will be the new FOTM so I can get them easy kills!
Fear is a disease!
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1601
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Posted - 2014.02.09 10:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
Bleeding Knight wrote:Source?
A crystal ball hanging from a tinfoil hat. I hope that it does happen because at least there will be more than gal logi on the field.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1601
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Posted - 2014.02.09 10:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:So many people are going to don a scout suit and get torn the shreads and join the "I want more respecs" crowd. Scouts are getting a buff for the people already skilled into them. new people are going to find out it is hard-mode. And that the cloak will be underwhelming. 0(OP) | 1(easy) | 2(normal) | 3(hard) | 4(UP) Tanks are at 0 Assault/logi are at 2 DS/sentinel is at 3 Commando are 3.5 Scouts are 4 After 1.8 Tanks are at 1 (maybe) Assaults/Sentinels are at 2 Logis are 2.5 DS/Scouts/commandos are at 3 So to you I say scouts being hard mode is giving real scouts a break. Yes. You get it. Completely. Though I'd rank some of the other things differently, but you are completely correct about the scouts. I bet you this is gonna happen. *Someone looks at the scout stats, thinks of it as a light assault* *specs into it in 1.8* *Plays it like an assault (walking straight down hallways, always taking the most direct route etc etc)* *Gets murdered from trying to take on squads of 3+ people* *rages* *comes to the forums to complain* It'll happen, I'm calling it right now.
Probably will because it seems that is how they play now, not much adapt or die more like complain and cry. Scouts aren't medium frames or they would be called medium so trying to use one as such is like racing a Lambo in Honda Civic. Play the suit's strengths.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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ALPHA DECRIPTER
Dragon-Empire
723
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Posted - 2014.02.09 19:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:
Probably will because it seems that is how they play now, not much adapt or die more like complain and cry. Scouts aren't medium frames or they would be called medium so trying to use one as such is like racing a Lambo in Honda Civic. Play the suit's strengths.
As a scout it's not always as simple as that (1.8 could hopefully change that) but you're right either way.
Even real scouts will dabble in "Light Assault" fits at some point in there career but even then they still play as scouts.
An influx of scouts could mean a lot of work for R O N 1 N lol.
Scout Tactician
Dance puppets, DANCE!
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
285
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Posted - 2014.02.09 19:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
Just w8 and c
NYAN will show what is the most overpowerd thing in the game and spam ambush with it.
=ƒÿë
War never changes
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boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
257
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Posted - 2014.02.09 19:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
i must of missed the memo heavy weapons useless? tell that to all the proto suits who die to my templar and std hmg combo.
im already seeing more and more heavyies. you can tell the new fat boys easyily. they dont move much and let you shot them in the face and barely dent your shield unless they are in a group.
im sure heavyies will be FOTM right up till people get sick of calling in a lav every time they want to get anywhere. i do hope they ban light weapons from sentinal suits. |
Turtle Hermit Roshi
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
99
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Posted - 2014.02.09 19:52:00 -
[54] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Assaults and Logis will be about as rare in 1.8 as a commando is in 1.7. I'm calling it now, DUST514 in 1.8 will be the equivalent of 'Supersize vs Super-Skinny', only instead of Supersized Mc Donalds meals and KFC Family Buckets for one vs Celery Sticks and Graham Crackers, we will see HMG's and Core Locust Grenades vs Breach Shoutguns and Remote Explosives.
that would be the most beautifull thing ever
i trueely hope your premonition comes to pass
if it did my dreams would come true ;-;
so beautiful
yes i scream KA-ME-HA-MEHAAAAAA when i forge muthafuckas
the Turtle Hermit: Professional Heavy
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Fire of Prometheus
Alpha Response Command
3525
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Posted - 2014.02.09 19:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
Well I've seen a ton of commandos in 1.7 so I guess I'll see a boat load of assaults and logis
Commando 6 // A.R.C Commander // C.E.O of Alpha Response Command
Patron saint of Commandos =ƒÿç
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Yan Darn
DUST University
Ivy League
180
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Posted - 2014.02.09 20:59:00 -
[56] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:Just w8 and c
NYAN will show what is the most overpowerd thing in the game and spam ambush with it.
=ƒÿë
Nyan fielding squads of gal-scouts would make me cry.
Considering the buffs to other dropsuits, the new stats seem fine - but I don't want it to get some kind of FoTM status. I think the Shinobi event awakened a lot of people's inner Scout.
You probably don't know me. But next time you get gunned down or exploded by a Valor scout...check the name.
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TcuBe3
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
403
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Posted - 2014.04.18 03:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Eh, assault will prob still be most popular. Follows by logi, but it will be a lot closer in numbers
35% assault/med 20% logi 15% scout, 15% sentinel/heavy, 15% commando
Couldn't be more wrong the game is now essentially heavy/scout 514....
CCP Fanboys remind me of the Heaven's Gate cult.
"DON'T DRINK THE COOL AID PEOPLE!"
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pyramidhead 420
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
432
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Posted - 2014.04.18 03:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:Eh, assault will prob still be most popular. Follows by logi, but it will be a lot closer in numbers
35% assault/med 20% logi 15% scout, 15% sentinel/heavy, 15% commando Couldn't be more wrong the game is now essentially heavy/scout 514....
ikr, lol and the idiot who said the cloak would be "underwhelming"...great call on that one, smh |
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