DUST Search - [REQUEST] The future of fighter jets and lock-on turrets!

Evolution-7 wrote:

Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:

Evolution-7 wrote:

Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:

inb4 lock-on QQ

lock-on missiles would be amazing to have though :)

lock-on WEAPONRY, will be awesome, and it has to come into the game.

1) We are this far into the future without this?

2) Dogfighting would take ages if shooting at each other with small turrets as the fighters regen capability and speed would easily out manoeuvre.

3) This does not have to be a 2014, 2015 or 2016 release, all I am sayibg is that when we get fighters, we need lock-on weaponry with it.

Having turrets lock-on would result in QQ the same way the AA does

1) Our vehicles lack any for of counter measures (flares, chaff etc)

2) Make them glass cannons, no more dogfights that last the whole game, also add chaff/flares for added survivability

3) I can agree with lock-on missiles as lock-on turrets spell another AA fiasco and countless threads

1) Of COURSE this would be launched with CM MODULES,

2) Whats to say they can not fit hardeners

3) Missiles are caldari tech so what you are saying is only they should have this + to shield fighters. No it would not result in QQ, long reloads with low engagement opportunities and pilot skill all fact in here. Btw, lock on turrets will ONLY lock on to armoured units (vehicles if thats easier) since aerial vehicles will always be armoured lighter than ground, this is what makes this lock-on turrets primarily AA.

In regards to the other posters, yes we need medium slots on vehicles for utility, ecm, flares etc.

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Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 338	Posted - 2014.02.08 12:46:00 - [1] - Quote This thread discusses lock-on turrets as a whole with focus on fighter jet lock-on turrets. Clarification: (important to read) TURRET LOADOUT OF FIGHTERS: 2 small turrets 1 medium turret The primary use of medium lock-on turrets is AV, there are however medium turret variants for AP which would be used on vehicles such as MAVs, also check out THIS awesome thread on turret purposes. FIGHTERS HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SWITCH BETWEEN THEIR TURRETS, BY PRESSING A BUTTON, X MAYBE, THE DEFAULT TURRET UPON ENTERING THE FIGHTER IS THE DUAL SMALL TURRETS MOUNTED ON THE FRONT OF THE SHIP. THE TURRET SWITCHED TO BY PRESSING X IS THE MEDIUM TURRET WHICH IS MOUNTED ABOVE OR UNDERNEATH THE FIGHTER DEPENDING ON THE HULL OF THE SHIP. We need an anti-armour turret WITH lock-on capabilities and a anti-shield turret WITH lock-on capabilities one for each race, caldari and minmatar having anti-armour firepower and gallente and amarr having anti-shield firepower. All turrets with lock-on capabilities are either medium or large turrets: ALL MEDIUM TURRETS WITH LOCKON CAPABILITIES HAVE LONG RELOADS, THERE ARE HOWEVER, NORMAL, MANUAL AIM VARIANTS. FIGHTERS HAVE TO BE ABLE TO RELOAD EACH TURRET PASSIVELY (EG: FIRED LOCKON MISSILES WHICH HAVE LONG RELOADS, PRESS RELOAD, SWITCH TO SMALL TURRETS TO CONTINUE THE FIGHT AND THEN SWITCHING BACK TO LOCKONS ONCE THE RELOAD IS COMPLETED WHICH IS NOTIFIED BY A TACNET MESSAGE) These below are just some ideas for lock-on missiles, what is to say CCP can not have more than one for each race. Amarrian: Pulse strike: (anti-air, anti-ground) GÇô NO DUMBFIRE, ONLY LOCKON This can NOT be dumb fired, one in the main turret barrel, when locking on to a target, the ship shakes slightly as this is a very powerful strike, (only lock on). The strike does 2000 damage per strike. 1 in the clip, 4 reserve munitions, 45 second reload time. Caldari: Precision missiles: (mainly anti-air) GÇô POOR DUMBFIRE WITH LOCKON Very poor accuracy at range when dumb fired, missile serves out of control over distance without lock-on. Very powerful rocket with high damage, but long reload time. The turret itself looks like a triangle with the hypotenuse mounted on the underside of the fighter (or whatever vehicle). It is a dual barrel capable of firing two rockets simultaneously or one at a time, each missile does 800 damage. 2 in the clip, 10 reserve munitions. 30 seconds reload. Gallente: Plasma swarmer: (anti-air/anti ground) GÇô ACCURATE DUMBFIRE WITH LOCKON During dumb fire, when the trigger is held down fires a swarm of four plasma bolts, tapping the trigger fires a single shot, when reticule is held over a target the reticule for 3 seconds, the reticule turns red meaning lock is engaged and when trigger is pressed a swarm of four bolts are released. Each bolt does 300 damage, accurate dumb fire and lock-on. 4 in the clip, 16 reserve munitions. Minmatar: Flak cannon: (anti-air/anti-ground) GÇô ACCURATE DUMBFIRE AND LOCKON During dumb fire, it has a range of 15 meter range, when fired; it has a large spread firing flak everywhere within its range. During lock-on, a rocket is shot and once within 5 meters of the target it detonates firing flak everywhere and the target within the flak. READ: There is 6 in the clip with 32 reserve munitions, When dumb firing, a shot uses 1 round. When in lock-on mode each shot uses 3 rounds of munitions. DUMB FIRE DAMAGE: 500 per flak: a full clip of sustained damage does 2500 (balancing factor is as written above, 15 meter range), Lock-on damage: 2000. The main balancing factor against these would be the targets piloting ability to evade the lock-on by flying low, behind buildings or other targets as well as counter-measures such as EMP Strikes, Flares etc. The user of the lock-on turrets judgemental abilities is another balancing factor. A message when you are locked on to is shown and a beeping noise the closer the weaponry gets to you. !KEEP SMALL TURRETS HOW THEY ARE, DO NOT INTRODUCE LOCKON FOR SMALL TURRETS! Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
Prius Vecht Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 290	Posted - 2014.02.08 12:50:00 - [2] - Quote want to hear about ECM modules, incoming projectile warnings and chaffs.
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 338	Posted - 2014.02.08 12:54:00 - [3] - Quote Prius Vecht wrote: want to hear about ECM modules, incoming projectile warnings and chaffs. will do that as well my fellow merc. But please contribute to this thread aswell :D Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
Kushmir Nadian Valor Coalition 396	Posted - 2014.02.08 13:24:00 - [4] - Quote Small turrets are the fixed front-facing, lower damage turrets, correct? Better gameplay might need lock-ons for the missiles. Jets will be an apex predator by their very nature...we must be careful to limit their spam capabilities. Talk to me about total HP. Squishy (less HP than dropships) fast-movers is what i'm thinking. Replication Veteran. I support Tech De Ra for CPM.
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2700	Posted - 2014.02.08 13:41:00 - [5] - Quote Jet Fighters were proposed to be two seated: Pilot seat with small gun (similar to assault derships) and a medium gunner seat with a 306-¦ rotation looking down.... Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 394	Posted - 2014.02.08 14:59:00 - [6] - Quote inb4 lock-on QQ lock-on missiles would be amazing to have though :) I will show you fear in a handful of dust. 1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
Tolen Rosas Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 344	Posted - 2014.02.08 19:14:00 - [7] - Quote def need chaffs to counter swarms. would like to see ECM be a cool-down module that prevents missile lock during that time. 5 sec for STD, 10 sec for ADV and 15 for PROTO.
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 343	Posted - 2014.02.08 20:30:00 - [8] - Quote Lt Royal wrote: Jet Fighters were proposed to be two seated: Pilot seat with small gun (similar to assault derships) and a medium gunner seat with a 306-¦ rotation looking down.... I think similar to how gunships work in the battlefield series. That was the old Carbon engine fighter, I know what artwork you are talking about, if you remember the clip of the caldari fighter at fanfest, it had no undermounted turret visible. I would like to have two seats in a fighter. With a real first person view in the second seat, imagine how awesome that would be, however, they play a real passive role of looking at the minimap, instruments etc. I mean come on, how awesome would that be? A vehicle with a undermount turret should be heavy aircraft gunship. Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 343	Posted - 2014.02.08 20:34:00 - [9] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: inb4 lock-on QQ lock-on missiles would be amazing to have though :) lock-on WEAPONRY, will be awesome, and it has to come into the game. 1) We are this far into the future without this? 2) Dogfighting would take ages if shooting at each other with small turrets as the fighters regen capability and speed would easily out manoeuvre. 3) This does not have to be a 2014, 2015 or 2016 release, all I am sayibg is that when we get fighters, we need lock-on weaponry with it. Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 344	Posted - 2014.02.08 20:44:00 - [10] - Quote Kushmir Nadian wrote: Small turrets are the fixed, front-facing, lower damage turrets, correct? Better gameplay might need lock-ons for the missiles. Jets will be an apex predator by their very nature...we must be careful to limit their spam capabilities. Talk to me about total HP. Squishy (less HP than dropships) fast-movers is what i'm thinking. Read the my post before this as well as this. Yes, during forward flight, small turrets are fixed facing forwards and immovable, however because all the aerial vehicles of dust will be VTOL, during hover mode, the small turrets are maneuverable, look at this : m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUkzRRBc3TU We have to make sure the fighters main role is Anti-Vehicle. This will require bigger maps an player counts, etc. This is why we do not have fighters right now. a full proto-fit fighter should cost no more than 500-700k. base hp for all fighters including shields and armour is 2200HP to withstand a single uncoordinated lock but sustain severe damage without hardeners. Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."

DustMercsBlog Galactic News Network 121	Posted - 2014.02.08 20:48:00 - [11] - Quote whats the HP for dropships currently?
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 344	Posted - 2014.02.09 10:20:00 - [12] - Quote DustMercsBlog wrote: whats the HP for dropships currently? Gallente: 3000-3400 Caldari: 2500-2800 Including shields and armour. Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 405	Posted - 2014.02.09 10:54:00 - [13] - Quote Evolution-7 wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: inb4 lock-on QQ lock-on missiles would be amazing to have though :) lock-on WEAPONRY, will be awesome, and it has to come into the game. 1) We are this far into the future without this? 2) Dogfighting would take ages if shooting at each other with small turrets as the fighters regen capability and speed would easily out manoeuvre. 3) This does not have to be a 2014, 2015 or 2016 release, all I am sayibg is that when we get fighters, we need lock-on weaponry with it. Having turrets lock-on would result in QQ the same way the AA does 1) Our vehicles lack any for of counter measures (flares, chaff etc) 2) Make them glass cannons, no more dogfights that last the whole game, also add chaff/flares for added survivability 3) I can agree with lock-on missiles as lock-on turrets spell another AA fiasco and countless threads I will show you fear in a handful of dust. 1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
Prius Vecht Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 306	Posted - 2014.02.09 10:59:00 - [14] - Quote Agree that AV (and other aircraft) would be fighters role. 2200 health sounds about right. they should have plenty of targets with all of the tanks, LAVs, MAVs and MTACs...turrets too. CCP really needs to hurry and let us paint targets so we canshow the fighters what to hit.
Big Boss XIII M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 507	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:30:00 - [15] - Quote Check out @Command_HQ's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Command_HQ/status/429942201632972800
Tolen Rosas Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 348	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:46:00 - [16] - Quote agree that jets should have big anti-turret role. should be glass cannons like Hecarim said tho....1800 total hp. @Hecarim how would u do missiles tho? shouldnt they be lock on?
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 410	Posted - 2014.02.09 15:32:00 - [17] - Quote Similar to swarm launcher lock-on with X amount of dmg X lock-on time Give jet's (maybe Dropships too) countermeasures like chaff/flares Introduse air to air and air to ground missiles where air to ground is free aim and air to air is lock-on Racial variants pending I will show you fear in a handful of dust. 1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
Tolen Rosas Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 349	Posted - 2014.02.09 15:51:00 - [18] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Similar to swarm launcher lock-on with X amount of dmg X lock-on time Give jet's (maybe Dropships too) countermeasures like chaff/flares Introduse air to air and air to ground missiles where air to ground is free aim and air to air is lock-on Racial variants pending yeah chaffs have to get here soon or jets will eat dropships for lunch with their speed and lock on missiles. that swarm lock on seems easy enough but ECM modules would be a good option too as long as they are short. how much dmg should missiles do? pilots would have to keep ships in their reticle for a lock right? u dont think air to ground free aim missiles would be OP vs infantry? sitting in a LAV or turret = target but not if they are just walking.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 912	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:01:00 - [19] - Quote Go to last post Best PvE idea ever!
Prius Vecht Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 307	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:01:00 - [20] - Quote Good Discussion. Would giving each missiles variant a max range reward piloting skill? It would if they detonated after hitting their max. If you could only "defeat" a lock with ECM/chaff or being out of range piloting skill/afterburners could let u escape. Gallente best turrets (plasma) but shortest missile range. Minmatar - good (projectile) turrets, standard missile range. Amarr - pulse laser turrets, long range missiles. Caldari - rail turrets with charge time, longest missile range.

Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 410	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:07:00 - [21] - Quote I'm bad with numbers so I'll stay away from giving damage numbers :D Yes, pilots would have to keep their target in their sights for X seconds to get an lock No I wouldn't, jet's are fast (you would have to compensate for the speed) and we already have Assault Dropships with free aim missiles and those things are not op in my opinion I will show you fear in a handful of dust. 1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
Tolen Rosas Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 349	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:26:00 - [22] - Quote i hear u, would rather see a medium missile type that requires lock on.
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 345	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:42:00 - [23] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Evolution-7 wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: inb4 lock-on QQ lock-on missiles would be amazing to have though :) lock-on WEAPONRY, will be awesome, and it has to come into the game. 1) We are this far into the future without this? 2) Dogfighting would take ages if shooting at each other with small turrets as the fighters regen capability and speed would easily out manoeuvre. 3) This does not have to be a 2014, 2015 or 2016 release, all I am sayibg is that when we get fighters, we need lock-on weaponry with it. Having turrets lock-on would result in QQ the same way the AA does 1) Our vehicles lack any for of counter measures (flares, chaff etc) 2) Make them glass cannons, no more dogfights that last the whole game, also add chaff/flares for added survivability 3) I can agree with lock-on missiles as lock-on turrets spell another AA fiasco and countless threads 1) Of COURSE this would be launched with CM MODULES, 2) Whats to say they can not fit hardeners 3) Missiles are caldari tech so what you are saying is only they should have this + to shield fighters. No it would not result in QQ, long reloads with low engagement opportunities and pilot skill all fact in here. Btw, lock on turrets will ONLY lock on to armoured units (vehicles if thats easier) since aerial vehicles will always be armoured lighter than ground, this is what makes this lock-on turrets primarily AA. In regards to the other posters, yes we need medium slots on vehicles for utility, ecm, flares etc. Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 345	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:54:00 - [24] - Quote Big Boss XIII wrote: Check out @Command_HQ's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Command_HQ/status/429942201632972800 Look at this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115185 Countless times I have said that the assault dropship is a DROPSHIP so it uses the hull of a dropship That picture is of the mosquito from planetside 2 which is a fighter jet. Yet again I believe that the assault dropship is more of a very light A2G offensive vehicle, NOT intended for dogfighting, NOT intended for long standing fights. I am happy CCP did not bring in the bomber dropshop, I mean how stupid does that sound. The dropship, define it, drop troop ship, it is the MAV of the sky, please remember that, this is not directed at you boss but to the entire dust community. The logistics dropship which was previously the prototype dropship was a lazy move by CCP as people now remember the Eryx and Prometheus as "logi" dropships, which in actual fact, they are FAR FAR from. And I hope CCP does not bring in a bomber ship and a logi ship with the hull of a dropship. Further clarification: ECMs, etc, can be fit on ANY vehicle, whose suggestion was it to limit it to fighters?......... Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 410	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:22:00 - [25] - Quote Evolution-7 wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Evolution-7 wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: inb4 lock-on QQ lock-on missiles would be amazing to have though :) lock-on WEAPONRY, will be awesome, and it has to come into the game. 1) We are this far into the future without this? 2) Dogfighting would take ages if shooting at each other with small turrets as the fighters regen capability and speed would easily out manoeuvre. 3) This does not have to be a 2014, 2015 or 2016 release, all I am sayibg is that when we get fighters, we need lock-on weaponry with it. Having turrets lock-on would result in QQ the same way the AA does 1) Our vehicles lack any for of counter measures (flares, chaff etc) 2) Make them glass cannons, no more dogfights that last the whole game, also add chaff/flares for added survivability 3) I can agree with lock-on missiles as lock-on turrets spell another AA fiasco and countless threads 1) Of COURSE this would be launched with CM MODULES, 2) Whats to say they can not fit hardeners 3) Missiles are caldari tech so what you are saying is only they should have this + to shield fighters. No it would not result in QQ, long reloads with low engagement opportunities and pilot skill all fact in here. Btw, lock on turrets will ONLY lock on to armoured units (vehicles if thats easier) since aerial vehicles will always be armoured lighter than ground, this is what makes this lock-on turrets primarily AA. In regards to the other posters, yes we need medium slots on vehicles for utility, ecm, flares etc. 1) yes this would be true in my idea too 2) nothing but I'm thinking the high pg/cpu cost of turrets and assuming jet's have somewhat low pg/cpu 3) Amarr's have some missile boats in EVE so why not in Dust? I'm only talkin about missiles as the main anti air / anti vehicle option since it's reliable (lock-on mainly) and havin free aim turrets as secondary for those pesky infantry runnin on the ground but I don't even fly, I'm just providing ideas that I think are good and somewhat balanced, this is a good thread after all I will show you fear in a handful of dust. 1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)


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