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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2406
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Posted - 2014.02.04 19:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here is a link to the discussion on the DUST 514 Feedback/Requests forum.
Here is a link to the discussion on the EVE Online Features & Ideas Discussion forum.
The short version is that to initiate a Planetary Conquest match in DUST a Warbarge class ship loaded with clones must travel in EVE from where the clones were picked up to the district being attacked. This creates two phases in a Planetary Conquest match.
1) EVE Phase, the fight to defend/destroy the Warbarge.
2) DUST Phase, the fight on the ground to take/defend the district.
There is also a mechanic for DUST corps that donGÇÖt have EVE connections.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2416
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Posted - 2014.02.05 19:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Possible incentives for EVE players to care about their Alliance owning Planetary Districts:
1) Have a district on a planet function like a PI Command Centre for anyone in the Alliance that holds the district. This would not be counted toward the total number of Command Centres you can have due to your Interplanetary Consolidation skill. It would allow you to operate PI on additional planets.
Each District on the planet owned by your alliance would make more Power Grid and CPU available up to a maximum of 6 districts, as the Command Centre Upgrade skill allows you to due for a normal Command Centre.
Currently DUST mercs only hold districts on Temperate Planets, but since High Tech Produciton Plants can be setup on Temperate Planets there is a definite benefit there.
2) POS bonusses. The bonuses already in place fore are based on planetary infrastructure:
- Cargo Hub: 10% per district owned to a maximum of 4 districts (40%) decrease in manufacturing time at a POS.
- Research Lab: 5% per district owned to a maximum of 4 (20%), reduction in POS fuel usage.
- Production Facility: Nothing? I could not find an EVE bonus associated with it.
Maybe there are other POS bonuses that could be applied.
3) Refining bonuses. If your Alliance owns a POCO and at least one district on the planet, you can drop off Ore at the POCO and have it refined at a better rate than you would get at an NPC station. Have a 24 hour delay on the refinement process due to the Ore having to be transported to the surface, refined, and returned to orbit. The refined minerals can then be picked up at the POCO. Have the Refining capacity increase with each district owned.
When space elevator are introduced in Null Sec have them further reduce the cost of refining.
4) Increase the Bounty payout for Rats based on the percentage of districts in the system owned by your Alliance.
5) Storage. If the Alliance owns the POCO and owns at least one district, each alliance member gets access to a hanger in the POCO. Also include a Corp Hanger. (Could be useful in systems without stations.)
6) Factories in Districts to produce some POS fuel components such as Oxygen.
Any other ideas?
Also, on a related note, the NPC version of the War Barge should generate a kill mail based on the value of the Clones lost. Currently a clone pack costs about 30 million ISK. Not much, but not bad for something that does not shoot back.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1392
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Posted - 2014.02.05 22:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
I always thought communication centers would be cool if they hid all alliance mates from local chat unless they spoke.
Where is my Gallente sidearm? 1.8? When is that? SoonGäó514
"No blue tags make Tallen go crazy."
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Lady MDK
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2014.02.05 22:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:
2) POS bonusses. The bonuses already in place fore are based on planetary infrastructure:
- Cargo Hub: 10% per district owned to a maximum of 4 districts (40%) decrease in manufacturing time at a POS.
- Research Lab: 5% per district owned to a maximum of 4 (20%), reduction in POS fuel usage.
- Production Facility: Nothing? I could not find an EVE bonus associated with it.
Maybe there are other POS bonuses that could be applied.
If most eve players experiences of pos mechanics are similar to mine it would be that they are an outmoded clunky waste of life.
How about you actually use the planetary facilities to do the job for you and eradicate the pos mechanic all together? i.e you want a blueprint researching?? planet 5 has a research faciltity with a free slot and you own that district.
Materials are stored in corp or personal hangers in the cargo hub on planet 2 there is also a production facility nearby (maybe the two are linked somehow and the eve player can move goods about between districts) now lets build some titan components there.
Then eve players would want to own planets and others would want to take them to cripple their enemies infrastructure.
Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following.
I don't care so neither should you :)
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2356
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Posted - 2014.02.05 22:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
My thoughts on your throughs:
1. There is little to no interest in PI in Eve, and is not really a sufficient way to increase Eve participation in PC/Dust
2. CCP has already stated that more are coming. I would expect there be changes to the existing bonuses as well.
3. You can refine ore at 100% very easily. That said, extra bonuses for owning the POCO as well as districts would be a good idea and both games should get a bonus for the alliance owning the POCO, just not the type of bonus you propose. Good idea here Fox.
4. Also a good idea. If you own 5% of districts you get a 5% bump on rat kills in system (belt, anom's, missions, etc)
5. I am not found of this idea - negates the need for POS and I would tend to vote against this.
6. Not sure how this would work or impact existing PI in Eve.
I will try to come up with some other ideas for you as well, since you opened the floor to other suggestions/ideas.
And so you know, I am replying to your ideas as the executor of Legacy Rising and as both an Eve and Dust player, and considering the ramifications that they would have on my alliance in general, and the game as a whole. I bring this up so you know I might be biased in my opinions, even though I tried not to be biased.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2356
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Posted - 2014.02.05 22:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:I always thought communication centers would be cool if they hid all alliance mates from local chat unless they spoke.
I dislike this idea in general. CCP has already stated that they may be revamping local chat anyway and I hope they don't ruin this. This is a critical piece of intel in Eve.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2356
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Posted - 2014.02.05 22:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lady MDK wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:
2) POS bonusses. The bonuses already in place fore are based on planetary infrastructure:
- Cargo Hub: 10% per district owned to a maximum of 4 districts (40%) decrease in manufacturing time at a POS.
- Research Lab: 5% per district owned to a maximum of 4 (20%), reduction in POS fuel usage.
- Production Facility: Nothing? I could not find an EVE bonus associated with it.
Maybe there are other POS bonuses that could be applied.
If most eve players experiences of pos mechanics are similar to mine it would be that they are an outmoded clunky waste of life. How about you actually use the planetary facilities to do the job for you and eradicate the pos mechanic all together? i.e you want a blueprint researching?? planet 5 has a research faciltity with a free slot and you own that district. Materials are stored in corp or personal hangers in the cargo hub on planet 2 there is also a production facility nearby (maybe the two are linked somehow and the eve player can move goods about between districts) now lets build some titan components there. Then eve players would want to own planets and others would want to take them to cripple their enemies infrastructure.
Interesting idea. I do not want to get rid of POS altogether, though I do like the idea of having what you say - it would just need to be less powerful than the POS. Maybe have it as a stepping stone between research/manufacturing/copying slots in stations and in the POS. Might be a nice intermediate step. Good idea.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2419
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Posted - 2014.02.05 23:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
So sum up a few ideas:
I think the PC interface should be available in both games to Directors and Planetary Management Officers in the Corp that owns the District.
I think that a Corp attacking or defending a district should be able to create a contract to hire Mercenaries (ringers) to fight the battle on their behalf. This would allow EVE Corps to take and hold districts. It would also make it more convenient for DUST Corps to get ringers to fight for them. It would be setup similar to a currier contract where there would be options to make it Public, or Private. In this case a private contract would be directed to a specified Corp rather than an individual.
I think that a Corp attacking a district should be able to contract a Corp, or Group of pilots to escort their Warbarge. If the Warbarge makes it to the district on time they get paid.
I think that a Corp that owns a district should be able to to create defense contracts. These would be long term contracts. While an EVE pilot or EVE Corp is under contract to defend a district, they will receive the notification when a hostile Corp registers an intent to attack the district. Pilots and Corps with a defense contract get a stipend for being on call, and receive a large payout if they destroy an attacking Warbarge.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2356
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Posted - 2014.02.05 23:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:So sum up a few ideas:
I think the PC interface should be available in both games to Directors and Planetary Management Officers in the Corp that owns the District.
I think that a Corp attacking or defending a district should be able to create a contract to hire Mercenaries (ringers) to fight the battle on their behalf. This would allow EVE Corps to take and hold districts. It would also make it more convenient for DUST Corps to get ringers to fight for them. It would be setup similar to a currier contract where there would be options to make it Public, or Private. In this case a private contract would be directed to a specified Corp rather than an individual.
I think that a Corp attacking a district should be able to contract a Corp, or Group of pilots to escort their Warbarge. If the Warbarge makes it to the district on time they get paid.
I think that a Corp that owns a district should be able to to create defense contracts. These would be long term contracts. While an EVE pilot or EVE Corp is under contract to defend a district, they will receive the notification when a hostile Corp registers an intent to attack the district. Pilots and Corps with a defense contract get a stipend for being on call, and receive a large payout if they destroy an attacking Warbarge.
Agreed. Need to consider exchange rates between games though.
Can we get a blue tag on this? I think this thread has the potential of being very productive.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2419
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Posted - 2014.02.05 23:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:
1. There is little to no interest in PI in Eve, and is not really a sufficient way to increase Eve participation in PC/Dust
Most of my experience in EVE is in small gang PVP in Low and NPC Null Sec. I have found that there are quite a number of small gang PVPGÇÖers in Low Sec and NPC Null Sec who use PI to supplement their PVP. I am not as familiar with High Sec, Null Sec, or Warmhole Space. I also have never been directly involved in the operation of a POS, although I have been in Corps that had several of them. (I have made a few go Boom.) So I am reaching a bit when trying to come up with POS related bonuses. I appreciate input from people more knowledgeable in that area than I am.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2419
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Posted - 2014.02.05 23:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Agreed. Need to consider exchange rates between games though.
Can we get a blue tag on this? I think this thread has the potential of being very productive. I would love to get a member of Team True Grit in here. They are not in China, but I still have not seen any hint of them during these Chinese New Year holidays.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2356
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Posted - 2014.02.05 23:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:
1. There is little to no interest in PI in Eve, and is not really a sufficient way to increase Eve participation in PC/Dust
Most of my experience in EVE is in small gang PVP in Low and NPC Null Sec. I have found that there are quite a number of small gang PVPGÇÖers in Low Sec and NPC Null Sec who use PI to supplement their PVP. I am not as familiar with High Sec, Null Sec, or Warmhole Space. I also have never been directly involved in the operation of a POS, although I have been in Corps that had several of them. (I have made a few go Boom.) So I am reaching a bit when trying to come up with POS related bonuses. I appreciate input from people more knowledgeable in that area than I am.
The PvP players in low who use PI to supplement income don't actually do PI. They own the POCO's themselves, and let the carebears use the facilities, taxing them along the way. As a result, bonuses to the PI outputs would be of little interest to the players who own the districts. The non PvP players who own POCO's do so to make their own POS fuel primarily, and are generally not interested in PvP (including Dust) except in terms of how they can get materials to sell to the PvP'ers.
If you want good bonuses for the carebear's, then they need to introduce crafting of Dust materials in Eve. My take would be to have Dust players control the prices to use their facilities (thereby giving them an option to be cheaper than the NPC cost of setting infastructure for PI on the planet). This way, the carebears would be interested in using these facilities, offering more ISK to Dust corps, and possibly getting the carebears to care more about the districts ownership (perhaps being in a joint alliance where the price for alliance members can be set to 0?). By doing this, the PvP players are also happy because of the use of the POCO's to transfer the goods at a potentially increased rate.
I had another idea but I lost it while I was typing this up. I will post it later when I remember what it was. I can also help flesh out your ideas on POS bonuses. Just need to think it through a bit.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4497
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
My biggest question is what is in for the dust mercs?
Yes I understand it would be cool if ships had to carry in our MCCs by war barge.
But put the mechanic in and what results is a corp waiting in their merc quarters for 30 minutes for the ship to maybe or maybe not arrive. That seems awful boring for us mercs.
What happens if the ship is late? How long are players supposed to sit around doing nothing but waiting?
Why can eve players/alliances have complete control over who we dust mercs fight with no retribution except other eve players?
I hope they can figure this stuff out, cause waiting for multiple PC battles for hours a night for no shows will kill it dust side. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2357
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:My biggest question is what is in for the dust mercs?
Yes I understand it would be cool if ships had to carry in our MCCs by war barge.
But put the mechanic in and what results is a corp waking in their merc quarters for 30 minutes the ship to maybe or mayb not arrive. That seems awful boring for us mercs.
What happens if the ship is late? How long are players supposed to sit around doing nothing but waiting?
Why can eve players/alliances have complete control over who we dust mercs fight with no retribution except other eve players?
I hope they can figure this stuff out, cause waiting for multiple PC battles for hours a night for no shows will kill it dust side.
Thoughtful and good questions.
1. I think the benefit should be significantly less clone attrition - namely no attrition at all. Big risk, yes, but potentially big reward. Imagine attacking a district 10 jumps away with your full complement of clones to do so. Changes the dynamic on who you can attack and who you have to worry about in Dust if they can get the clones there.
2. Great question about if the ship is late. What would your suggestion be to handle this? There is a built in 7 minute window from the time you currently hit the war barge and when you deploy. I think that this should be enough of a buffer. Generally in Eve, it takes approximately 1 minute to travel per system. You would have limited time to deploy yes. The battle should proceed though and treated as a no show if the barge fails to arrive. If you arrive late, you are at a disadvantage. I'm sure there are other advantages that could be given to the Dust players that travel long distances successfully. Will think it over.
3. They would not - you would should be able to contract Eve players to support your attacks by putting out contacts that Eve players can pick up. This way, the Eve players are working for you. Adding more benefits to the Dust players for districts owned would help offset this. What bonuses/benefits would you think to be fair?
4. If you are worried about no shows, you could still use the NPC method where clone attrition occurs.
What other issues would you see that need to be addressed? Also, how would you address them? Remember, CCP has already said this will happen, so we might as well put our critical thinking skills to use to help predict concerns and possible solutions.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1147
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
I plop down a command center in PI in EVE. Another player in EVE doesn't like the competition to his resource gathering. DUST mercs can then be hired and attack the command center.
That's what it was supposed to be as part of the introduction to PI and the involvement of planets in EVE. That is what it should have been. That is ALL it should have been at the start of this whole mess.
This whole district thing makes no sense and has no involvement in EVE's present PI. PI is about me plopping down facilities and linking those for resource gathering. DUST only needs to simply create a match that takes the data of whoever wins or loses, send it to EVE and switch ownership or register destruction and removal of the EVE player's PI facility.
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4497
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Posted - 2014.02.06 00:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm thinking they would have to use the 24 hour mechanic to schedule the war barges for delivery ?
with an hour before the battle notice of its arrival or destruction. I would see it as an advantage as you said if you have a corp in eve escorting your ships to make far reaching incursions. But I agree there would still have to be a way of attacking through NPC for larger attrition rates, or a dominant eve corp would stifle PC more than it is now. Who pays for all these ships? Dust mercs who have a small amount of isk compared to eve side? What retribution do we have to protect our investments from our playstations console? To make it work the advantage needs to be big for the dust mercs, otherwise it just seems like an easy way for eve to grief dusters.
The mechanic has to be able to increase the time in batlle not lengthen the wait time in merc quarters.
I also bieleve it is imparitave that dust mercs can fire back through the successful capture of ground to space cannons, in no way should we be pounded on from orbitals and not be able to do damage back.
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2358
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Posted - 2014.02.06 00:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:I plop down a command center in PI in EVE. Another player in EVE doesn't like the competition to his resource gathering. DUST mercs can then be hired and attack the command center.
That's what it was supposed to be as part of the introduction to PI and the involvement of planets in EVE. That is what it should have been. That is ALL it should have been at the start of this whole mess.
This whole district thing makes no sense and has no involvement in EVE's present PI.
While I agree with you, the fact is that this wasn't sexy enough. And I tend to agree with that as well - that would have been a very unsexy way to integrate the games.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2358
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:I'm thinking they would have to use the 24 hour mechanic to schedule the war barges for delivery ?
with an hour before the battle notice of its arrival or destruction. I would see it as an advantage as you said if you have a corp in eve escorting your ships to make far reaching incursions. But I agree there would still have to be a way of attacking through NPC for larger attrition rates, or a dominant eve corp would stifle PC more than it is now. Who pays for all these ships? Dust mercs who have a small amount of isk compared to eve side? What retribution do we have to protect our investments from our playstations console? To make it work the advantage needs to be big for the dust mercs, otherwise it just seems like an easy way for eve to grief dusters.
The mechanic has to be able to increase the time in batlle not lengthen the wait time in merc quarters.
I also bieleve it is imparitave that dust mercs can fire back through the successful capture of ground to space cannons, in no way should we be pounded on from orbitals and not be able to do damage back.
Eve would need to pay for them, and there should be an reward for delivering them successfully as set by Dust. This is where the exchange rates comes into play (see next paragraph). Let's say there are different ship types at different prices depending on what the Eve side feels that they can successfully deliver to the planet. Weaker ones are cheaper, stronger ones are more expensive.
Now, to help offset the cost of the ship, the ISK offered in Dust should scale to Eve terms. As a Dust corp, you are willing to offer 5 million for delivery. Let's say it is a factor of 10 in scale - the Eve corp gets 50 million ISK. Now, this is not significant, so your Eve players may opt for the cheaper ship. But let's say you offer 10 million and this scales to 100 million, now the Eve guys may spend on a better ship to be sure delivery happens and they get their full bounty.
What about a deadline for delivery - say 30 minutes before battle is scheduled to start? If the barge isn't there, the Eve side loses the contract and Dust side you have the option of an NPC delivery or cancel the attack (immediately allowing another corp to attack in your place). Would this be fair?
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1147
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:I plop down a command center in PI in EVE. Another player in EVE doesn't like the competition to his resource gathering. DUST mercs can then be hired and attack the command center.
That's what it was supposed to be as part of the introduction to PI and the involvement of planets in EVE. That is what it should have been. That is ALL it should have been at the start of this whole mess.
This whole district thing makes no sense and has no involvement in EVE's present PI. While I agree with you, the fact is that this wasn't sexy enough. And I tend to agree with that as well - that would have been a very unsexy way to integrate the games.
It would do the same thing as now only have direct impact on EVE and allow for control of the area around the facility (i.e. The map areas as they are now). That is the only area a DUST player can exist right now. If you have a district you can't set off on a big trek around that area.
So, about as fun as it is now. Join a match, fight on the map, win or lose, exit to the lobby. Only, if you belong to an EVE alliance or corp. then you get enjoy the income et al that could go with keeping that planet's PI assembly line going.
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4497
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is making more sense, would the eve pilot have a penalty clause if he does not deliver? Why do we need to pay for the service? Couldn't we make it a two way street where eve pilots can contract us to land on this planet and take it for god and country?
I think you are adressing the main concern I have about scheduling of batlles as many corporations can share organizing a full war with multiple attacks simulataniously is a huge time consuming but necessary chore. If you add to that that 30% of the battles you have scheduled are no shows it becomes discouraging and counterproductive to dust corporations.
Even now having an opponent no show is a very boring mechanic and a huge time waist for us console players who just want to shoot people in the face. |
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1149
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Posted - 2014.02.06 00:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ship flies to planet, with clones in cargo, drops them off to district. Once present, war can be declared and then do the 24 hour thing so everybody is informed and can schedule play time. Battle timer hits zero and battle begins. Otherwise, they sit there for whenever a battle is declared, ready to go.
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2358
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Posted - 2014.02.06 00:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:I plop down a command center in PI in EVE. Another player in EVE doesn't like the competition to his resource gathering. DUST mercs can then be hired and attack the command center.
That's what it was supposed to be as part of the introduction to PI and the involvement of planets in EVE. That is what it should have been. That is ALL it should have been at the start of this whole mess.
This whole district thing makes no sense and has no involvement in EVE's present PI. While I agree with you, the fact is that this wasn't sexy enough. And I tend to agree with that as well - that would have been a very unsexy way to integrate the games. It would do the same thing as now only have direct impact on EVE and allow for control of the area around the facility (i.e. The map areas as they are now). That is the only area a DUST player can exist right now. If you have a district you can't set off on a big trek around that area. So, about as fun as it is now. Join a match, fight on the map, win or lose, exit to the lobby. Only, if you belong to an EVE alliance or corp. then you get enjoy the income et al that could go with keeping that planet's PI assembly line going.
It would have a direct and unsexy impact. Remember - the purpose of district ownership is rooted in the idea of sov warfare in null sec. You already see the impacts that these battles have in Faction Warfare in Eve - they help swing the tides of battle quite a bit. The same will be true for sov.
Also, I agree with the merits - I just think it is a token change and not a game changer.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2358
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Posted - 2014.02.06 00:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:This is making more sense, would the eve pilot have a penalty clause if he does not deliver? Why do we need to pay for the service? Couldn't we make it a two way street where eve pilots can contract us to land on this planet and take it for god and country?
I think you are adressing the main concern I have about scheduling of batlles as many corporations can share organizing a full war with multiple attacks simulataniously is a huge time consuming but necessary chore. If you add to that that 30% of the battles you have scheduled are no shows it becomes discouraging and counterproductive to dust corporations.
Even now having an opponent no show is a very boring mechanic and a huge time waist for us console players who just want to shoot people in the face.
I think the penalty is the loss of the cost of the ship.
Also, in Eve, there is the option in contracts to require collateral upon acceptance of the contact. If the contact is not fulfilled, the collateral is lost. The good part about this is that the collateral manages itself in terms of awoxing the person taking the contract. If the collateral is too high for the risk, then they simply won't take the contract.
And yes, I see no reason to make it a two way street. If Eve needs a district taken, then Dust corps fulfill it. By the same token, you can make the contracts for 0 ISK for alliance if you want.
I agree with the dicouraging/counterproductive point you are making. That is why we need to be careful balacing, and why CCP really really needs to read this thread. They really should sticky this to be honest.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2358
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Ship flies to planet, with clones in cargo, drops them off to district. Once present, war can be declared and then do the 24 hour thing so everybody is informed and can schedule play time. Battle timer hits zero and battle begins. Otherwise, they sit there for whenever a battle is declared, ready to go.
Dislike. One of the major points of moving the clones is to generate PvP fights in Eve. If you can do this easily and without risk, there is no value to do this from the Eve side. There has to be risk - Eve is about conflict whether it is ship to ship, or market bidding wars.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2419
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Posted - 2014.02.06 01:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:My biggest question is what is in for the dust mercs? The point is to insure that Location has strategic importance in PC. CCP screwed that up in PC 1.0 by allowing infinite clone packs. CCP said the Warbarge would be piloted in EVE to deliver the clones, so I am working around that idea.
HowDidThatTaste wrote:But put the mechanic in and what results is a corp waiting in their merc quarters for 30 minutes for the ship to maybe or maybe not arrive. That seems awful boring for us mercs. The Warbarge anchoring over the district initiates the reinforcement timber. The DUST battle happens somewhere between 24 and 48 hours later. This is a PC battle remember.
HowDidThatTaste wrote:What happens if the ship is late? How long are players supposed to sit around doing nothing but waiting? If the ship is late it will not be able to anchor, and it will have to try to return the Clones to where they came from. If it is late there will be no battle DUST side. Do DUST mercs sit around and wait for 48 hours now in PC when someone attacks? No, they form up about an hour before the battle.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2420
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Posted - 2014.02.06 01:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:
2. Great question about if the ship is late. What would your suggestion be to handle this? There is a built in 7 minute window from the time you currently hit the war barge and when you deploy. I think that this should be enough of a buffer. Generally in Eve, it takes approximately 1 minute to travel per system. You would have limited time to deploy yes. The battle should proceed though and treated as a no show if the barge fails to arrive. If you arrive late, you are at a disadvantage. I'm sure there are other advantages that could be given to the Dust players that travel long distances successfully. Will think it over.
The Corp that owns the district would get a notification when the attack is registered, and a second notification when the Warbarge anchors and starts the reinforcement timer. The ground pounders only worry about the second notification. It gives them the time of the battle in 24 to 48 hours. If the Warbarge does not make it in the two hour window, there is no second notification so the ground pounders could care less.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2358
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Posted - 2014.02.06 01:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:
2. Great question about if the ship is late. What would your suggestion be to handle this? There is a built in 7 minute window from the time you currently hit the war barge and when you deploy. I think that this should be enough of a buffer. Generally in Eve, it takes approximately 1 minute to travel per system. You would have limited time to deploy yes. The battle should proceed though and treated as a no show if the barge fails to arrive. If you arrive late, you are at a disadvantage. I'm sure there are other advantages that could be given to the Dust players that travel long distances successfully. Will think it over.
The Corp that owns the district would get a notification when the attack is registered, and a second notification when the Warbarge anchors and starts the reinforcement timer. The ground pounders only worry about the second notification. It gives them the time of the battle in 24 to 48 hours. If the Warbarge does not make it in the two hour window, there is no second notification so the ground pounders could care less.
It is interesting - your idea about the 24-48 hrs after the ship deploys. That said, I would rather the ship arrive closer to when the battle starts. This lets the Eve fleet pull double duty - escort the barge and then provide OB support after. To me, oin the Eve side, this encourages more PvP action.
From the Dust side, it would not be an impact if they have the option to cancel or use the NPC barge (with attrition) instead. This way there is risk for the Dust players as well.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
152
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Posted - 2014.02.06 03:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
One thing that disturbs me about Eve control of clone transportation is the implications of long-scale conflict.
CCP hinted that Eve ships might one day be transporting reinforcements and supplies to an active battle in Dust. If the pans out it will mean that Eve pilots will be focused on not only delivery but also running actual logistic lines into contested territory.
This would be great if it meant that a large-scale battle on the ground will mimic what we've already seen in Eve, but the potential for supply lines to be bogged down in Time Dilation, effectively cutting off supplies due to too many participants in system, would cut short the kind of Dust side scale of conflict that Eve has made international news with.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Lady MDK
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.02.06 08:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:My biggest question is what is in for the dust mercs?
I can think of several possibilities of post capture benefits for the dust corps but I'm only a casual player so I don't know if any of the hardcore dust players would go for them.
1> Maybe there is some kind of standing contract between you and the alliance you captured the land for that means they are essentially renting it and you get x million isk per month for holding it on their behalf.
2> If you are members of the alliance that hold the space and planet maybe there is a bonus to the number of clones you have have on the planet giving an advantage should anyone contest it.
3> PVE sites that spawn on owned planets and show up on a planetary map and you have get in your vehicle and get there (a chance for PVP as well if the sites can be camped by anyone (thinking open world mechanics here rather than just 2 teams going at it). The chance to earn extra isk, maybe the chance to earn materials which the eve alliance can turn into weapons and vehicles that you can use later (I'm sure they'll cut a favourable deal  ).
Please feel free to add more ideas....
Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following.
I don't care so neither should you :)
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2421
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Posted - 2014.02.06 11:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Ship flies to planet, with clones in cargo, drops them off to district. Once present, war can be declared and then do the 24 hour thing so everybody is informed and can schedule play time. Battle timer hits zero and battle begins. Otherwise, they sit there for whenever a battle is declared, ready to go. Dislike. One of the major points of moving the clones is to generate PvP fights in Eve. If you can do this easily and without risk, there is no value to do this from the Eve side. There has to be risk - Eve is about conflict whether it is ship to ship, or market bidding wars. Moving clones alone is not enough - you have to move the warbarge and MCC, as well as any installations you plan to deploy (remember this is a feature coming as well). That is why I included the mechanic of having to register the intended target of the attack with CONCORD before you are able to move clones to the Warbarge. The defenders and any EVE players they have a defense contract with get a notification that an attack on the district has been registered, so they can scramble a defensive fleet.
The other advantage of this system is that it makes location matter. If you take districts in some backwater dead end system 2 jumps from the closest temperate planet, then your system will be much easier to defend in EVE than a district on a planet in the main drag with two temperate planets in system and 3 more within two jumps. You also have to worry about roving PVP gangs who will kill the Warbarge just for the kill mail, which are more of a risk in high traffic areas. Every gate the Warbarge has to go through has the potential for a gate camp. So attacking way behind enemy lines would be really risky EVE side unless you have a massive fleet defending the Warbarge.
The most important part of this for me is to make location matter so that the choice of which districts to attack feels more like a strategy board game. Right now with Clone packs it is like a board game where you can move any piece to any square in one move.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2421
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Posted - 2014.02.06 11:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:One thing that disturbs me about Eve control of clone transportation is the implications of long-scale conflict.
CCP hinted that Eve ships might one day be transporting reinforcements and supplies to an active battle in Dust. If the pans out it will mean that Eve pilots will be focused on not only delivery but also running actual logistic lines into contested territory.
This would be great if it meant that a large-scale battle on the ground will mimic what we've already seen in Eve, but the potential for supply lines to be bogged down in Time Dilation, effectively cutting off supplies due to too many participants in system, would cut short the kind of Dust side scale of conflict that Eve has made international news with.
If we get enough EVE pilots to care about DUST to produce a Time Dilation effect, I would consider that a triumph! The number of EVE pilots in one battle to produce those recent heavy Time Dilation fights would have approached the total number of people playing dust at that moment. 
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2421
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Posted - 2014.02.06 13:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
Since people are posting in this thread, rather than following the link to the Feedback thread, I went ahead and copied the full suggested mechanic to the original post.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2361
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Ship flies to planet, with clones in cargo, drops them off to district. Once present, war can be declared and then do the 24 hour thing so everybody is informed and can schedule play time. Battle timer hits zero and battle begins. Otherwise, they sit there for whenever a battle is declared, ready to go. Dislike. One of the major points of moving the clones is to generate PvP fights in Eve. If you can do this easily and without risk, there is no value to do this from the Eve side. There has to be risk - Eve is about conflict whether it is ship to ship, or market bidding wars. Moving clones alone is not enough - you have to move the warbarge and MCC, as well as any installations you plan to deploy (remember this is a feature coming as well). That is why I included the mechanic of having to register the intended target of the attack with CONCORD before you are able to move clones to the Warbarge. The defenders and any EVE players they have a defense contract with get a notification that an attack on the district has been registered, so they can scramble a defensive fleet. The other advantage of this system is that it makes location matter. If you take districts in some backwater dead end system 2 jumps from the closest temperate planet, then your system will be much easier to defend in EVE than a district on a planet in the main drag with two temperate planets in system and 3 more within two jumps. You also have to worry about roving PVP gangs who will kill the Warbarge just for the kill mail, which are more of a risk in high traffic areas. Every gate the Warbarge has to go through has the potential for a gate camp. So attacking way behind enemy lines would be really risky EVE side unless you have a massive fleet defending the Warbarge. The most important part of this for me is to make location matter so that the choice of which districts to attack feels more like a strategy board game. Right now with Clone packs it is like a board game where you can move any piece to any square in one move.
You are arguing the same point I made. The difference between you and me is that you want a 24-48 hour timer between when the warbarge is moved and when the battle starts. Logistically, in Eve, this doesn't make sense. For Eve, it makes more sense to have the warbarge anchor closer to when the battle begins.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2361
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Denn Maell wrote:One thing that disturbs me about Eve control of clone transportation is the implications of long-scale conflict.
CCP hinted that Eve ships might one day be transporting reinforcements and supplies to an active battle in Dust. If the pans out it will mean that Eve pilots will be focused on not only delivery but also running actual logistic lines into contested territory.
This would be great if it meant that a large-scale battle on the ground will mimic what we've already seen in Eve, but the potential for supply lines to be bogged down in Time Dilation, effectively cutting off supplies due to too many participants in system, would cut short the kind of Dust side scale of conflict that Eve has made international news with. If we get enough EVE pilots to care about DUST to produce a Time Dilation effect, I would consider that a triumph! The number of EVE pilots in one battle to produce those recent heavy Time Dilation fights would have approached the total number of people playing dust at that moment.
TiDi will only be a factor once this moves into Sov mechanics.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2433
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Posted - 2014.02.07 11:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Ship flies to planet, with clones in cargo, drops them off to district. Once present, war can be declared and then do the 24 hour thing so everybody is informed and can schedule play time. Battle timer hits zero and battle begins. Otherwise, they sit there for whenever a battle is declared, ready to go. Dislike. One of the major points of moving the clones is to generate PvP fights in Eve. If you can do this easily and without risk, there is no value to do this from the Eve side. There has to be risk - Eve is about conflict whether it is ship to ship, or market bidding wars. Moving clones alone is not enough - you have to move the warbarge and MCC, as well as any installations you plan to deploy (remember this is a feature coming as well). That is why I included the mechanic of having to register the intended target of the attack with CONCORD before you are able to move clones to the Warbarge. The defenders and any EVE players they have a defense contract with get a notification that an attack on the district has been registered, so they can scramble a defensive fleet. The other advantage of this system is that it makes location matter. If you take districts in some backwater dead end system 2 jumps from the closest temperate planet, then your system will be much easier to defend in EVE than a district on a planet in the main drag with two temperate planets in system and 3 more within two jumps. You also have to worry about roving PVP gangs who will kill the Warbarge just for the kill mail, which are more of a risk in high traffic areas. Every gate the Warbarge has to go through has the potential for a gate camp. So attacking way behind enemy lines would be really risky EVE side unless you have a massive fleet defending the Warbarge. The most important part of this for me is to make location matter so that the choice of which districts to attack feels more like a strategy board game. Right now with Clone packs it is like a board game where you can move any piece to any square in one move. You are arguing the same point I made. The difference between you and me is that you want a 24-48 hour timer between when the warbarge is moved and when the battle starts. Logistically, in Eve, this doesn't make sense. For Eve, it makes more sense to have the warbarge anchor closer to when the battle begins. It is like when your POCO gets attacked. You get a notification when it gets attacked so you can scramble and react to the attack. If the POCO gets reinforced, then you have time to arrange things a pull together a full fleet for when it comes out of Reinforced.
Only in PC the second battle will involve controlling the skies so you can drop orbitals. You will want to use different ships for the second phase than you used to try to destroy the Warbarge, so having the match begin immediately after the Warbarge arrives would not give you long to reship.
Besides, as many people have already pointed out you donGÇÖt want to muster a full team of DUST mercenaries and then not have the battle happen because the Warbarge was destroyed. By having the reinforcement timber after the Warbarge anchors, the DUST players get plenty of notice that the match will or will not happen.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2362
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Posted - 2014.02.07 13:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
I still prefer my suggestion.
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