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Fox Gaden
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2406
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Posted - 2014.02.04 19:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here is a link to the discussion on the DUST 514 Feedback/Requests forum.
Here is a link to the discussion on the EVE Online Features & Ideas Discussion forum.
The short version is that to initiate a Planetary Conquest match in DUST a Warbarge class ship loaded with clones must travel in EVE from where the clones were picked up to the district being attacked. This creates two phases in a Planetary Conquest match.
1) EVE Phase, the fight to defend/destroy the Warbarge.
2) DUST Phase, the fight on the ground to take/defend the district.
There is also a mechanic for DUST corps that donGÇÖt have EVE connections.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
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2416
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Posted - 2014.02.05 19:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Possible incentives for EVE players to care about their Alliance owning Planetary Districts:
1) Have a district on a planet function like a PI Command Centre for anyone in the Alliance that holds the district. This would not be counted toward the total number of Command Centres you can have due to your Interplanetary Consolidation skill. It would allow you to operate PI on additional planets.
Each District on the planet owned by your alliance would make more Power Grid and CPU available up to a maximum of 6 districts, as the Command Centre Upgrade skill allows you to due for a normal Command Centre.
Currently DUST mercs only hold districts on Temperate Planets, but since High Tech Produciton Plants can be setup on Temperate Planets there is a definite benefit there.
2) POS bonusses. The bonuses already in place fore are based on planetary infrastructure:
- Cargo Hub: 10% per district owned to a maximum of 4 districts (40%) decrease in manufacturing time at a POS.
- Research Lab: 5% per district owned to a maximum of 4 (20%), reduction in POS fuel usage.
- Production Facility: Nothing? I could not find an EVE bonus associated with it.
Maybe there are other POS bonuses that could be applied.
3) Refining bonuses. If your Alliance owns a POCO and at least one district on the planet, you can drop off Ore at the POCO and have it refined at a better rate than you would get at an NPC station. Have a 24 hour delay on the refinement process due to the Ore having to be transported to the surface, refined, and returned to orbit. The refined minerals can then be picked up at the POCO. Have the Refining capacity increase with each district owned.
When space elevator are introduced in Null Sec have them further reduce the cost of refining.
4) Increase the Bounty payout for Rats based on the percentage of districts in the system owned by your Alliance.
5) Storage. If the Alliance owns the POCO and owns at least one district, each alliance member gets access to a hanger in the POCO. Also include a Corp Hanger. (Could be useful in systems without stations.)
6) Factories in Districts to produce some POS fuel components such as Oxygen.
Any other ideas?
Also, on a related note, the NPC version of the War Barge should generate a kill mail based on the value of the Clones lost. Currently a clone pack costs about 30 million ISK. Not much, but not bad for something that does not shoot back.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2419
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Posted - 2014.02.05 23:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
So sum up a few ideas:
I think the PC interface should be available in both games to Directors and Planetary Management Officers in the Corp that owns the District.
I think that a Corp attacking or defending a district should be able to create a contract to hire Mercenaries (ringers) to fight the battle on their behalf. This would allow EVE Corps to take and hold districts. It would also make it more convenient for DUST Corps to get ringers to fight for them. It would be setup similar to a currier contract where there would be options to make it Public, or Private. In this case a private contract would be directed to a specified Corp rather than an individual.
I think that a Corp attacking a district should be able to contract a Corp, or Group of pilots to escort their Warbarge. If the Warbarge makes it to the district on time they get paid.
I think that a Corp that owns a district should be able to to create defense contracts. These would be long term contracts. While an EVE pilot or EVE Corp is under contract to defend a district, they will receive the notification when a hostile Corp registers an intent to attack the district. Pilots and Corps with a defense contract get a stipend for being on call, and receive a large payout if they destroy an attacking Warbarge.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2419
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Posted - 2014.02.05 23:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:
1. There is little to no interest in PI in Eve, and is not really a sufficient way to increase Eve participation in PC/Dust
Most of my experience in EVE is in small gang PVP in Low and NPC Null Sec. I have found that there are quite a number of small gang PVPGÇÖers in Low Sec and NPC Null Sec who use PI to supplement their PVP. I am not as familiar with High Sec, Null Sec, or Warmhole Space. I also have never been directly involved in the operation of a POS, although I have been in Corps that had several of them. (I have made a few go Boom.) So I am reaching a bit when trying to come up with POS related bonuses. I appreciate input from people more knowledgeable in that area than I am.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2419
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Posted - 2014.02.05 23:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Agreed. Need to consider exchange rates between games though.
Can we get a blue tag on this? I think this thread has the potential of being very productive. I would love to get a member of Team True Grit in here. They are not in China, but I still have not seen any hint of them during these Chinese New Year holidays.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
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2419
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Posted - 2014.02.06 01:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:My biggest question is what is in for the dust mercs? The point is to insure that Location has strategic importance in PC. CCP screwed that up in PC 1.0 by allowing infinite clone packs. CCP said the Warbarge would be piloted in EVE to deliver the clones, so I am working around that idea.
HowDidThatTaste wrote:But put the mechanic in and what results is a corp waiting in their merc quarters for 30 minutes for the ship to maybe or maybe not arrive. That seems awful boring for us mercs. The Warbarge anchoring over the district initiates the reinforcement timber. The DUST battle happens somewhere between 24 and 48 hours later. This is a PC battle remember.
HowDidThatTaste wrote:What happens if the ship is late? How long are players supposed to sit around doing nothing but waiting? If the ship is late it will not be able to anchor, and it will have to try to return the Clones to where they came from. If it is late there will be no battle DUST side. Do DUST mercs sit around and wait for 48 hours now in PC when someone attacks? No, they form up about an hour before the battle.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2420
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Posted - 2014.02.06 01:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:
2. Great question about if the ship is late. What would your suggestion be to handle this? There is a built in 7 minute window from the time you currently hit the war barge and when you deploy. I think that this should be enough of a buffer. Generally in Eve, it takes approximately 1 minute to travel per system. You would have limited time to deploy yes. The battle should proceed though and treated as a no show if the barge fails to arrive. If you arrive late, you are at a disadvantage. I'm sure there are other advantages that could be given to the Dust players that travel long distances successfully. Will think it over.
The Corp that owns the district would get a notification when the attack is registered, and a second notification when the Warbarge anchors and starts the reinforcement timer. The ground pounders only worry about the second notification. It gives them the time of the battle in 24 to 48 hours. If the Warbarge does not make it in the two hour window, there is no second notification so the ground pounders could care less.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2421
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Posted - 2014.02.06 11:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Ship flies to planet, with clones in cargo, drops them off to district. Once present, war can be declared and then do the 24 hour thing so everybody is informed and can schedule play time. Battle timer hits zero and battle begins. Otherwise, they sit there for whenever a battle is declared, ready to go. Dislike. One of the major points of moving the clones is to generate PvP fights in Eve. If you can do this easily and without risk, there is no value to do this from the Eve side. There has to be risk - Eve is about conflict whether it is ship to ship, or market bidding wars. Moving clones alone is not enough - you have to move the warbarge and MCC, as well as any installations you plan to deploy (remember this is a feature coming as well). That is why I included the mechanic of having to register the intended target of the attack with CONCORD before you are able to move clones to the Warbarge. The defenders and any EVE players they have a defense contract with get a notification that an attack on the district has been registered, so they can scramble a defensive fleet.
The other advantage of this system is that it makes location matter. If you take districts in some backwater dead end system 2 jumps from the closest temperate planet, then your system will be much easier to defend in EVE than a district on a planet in the main drag with two temperate planets in system and 3 more within two jumps. You also have to worry about roving PVP gangs who will kill the Warbarge just for the kill mail, which are more of a risk in high traffic areas. Every gate the Warbarge has to go through has the potential for a gate camp. So attacking way behind enemy lines would be really risky EVE side unless you have a massive fleet defending the Warbarge.
The most important part of this for me is to make location matter so that the choice of which districts to attack feels more like a strategy board game. Right now with Clone packs it is like a board game where you can move any piece to any square in one move.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2421
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Posted - 2014.02.06 11:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:One thing that disturbs me about Eve control of clone transportation is the implications of long-scale conflict.
CCP hinted that Eve ships might one day be transporting reinforcements and supplies to an active battle in Dust. If the pans out it will mean that Eve pilots will be focused on not only delivery but also running actual logistic lines into contested territory.
This would be great if it meant that a large-scale battle on the ground will mimic what we've already seen in Eve, but the potential for supply lines to be bogged down in Time Dilation, effectively cutting off supplies due to too many participants in system, would cut short the kind of Dust side scale of conflict that Eve has made international news with.
If we get enough EVE pilots to care about DUST to produce a Time Dilation effect, I would consider that a triumph! The number of EVE pilots in one battle to produce those recent heavy Time Dilation fights would have approached the total number of people playing dust at that moment. 
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
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Posted - 2014.02.06 13:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Since people are posting in this thread, rather than following the link to the Feedback thread, I went ahead and copied the full suggested mechanic to the original post.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2433
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Posted - 2014.02.07 11:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Ship flies to planet, with clones in cargo, drops them off to district. Once present, war can be declared and then do the 24 hour thing so everybody is informed and can schedule play time. Battle timer hits zero and battle begins. Otherwise, they sit there for whenever a battle is declared, ready to go. Dislike. One of the major points of moving the clones is to generate PvP fights in Eve. If you can do this easily and without risk, there is no value to do this from the Eve side. There has to be risk - Eve is about conflict whether it is ship to ship, or market bidding wars. Moving clones alone is not enough - you have to move the warbarge and MCC, as well as any installations you plan to deploy (remember this is a feature coming as well). That is why I included the mechanic of having to register the intended target of the attack with CONCORD before you are able to move clones to the Warbarge. The defenders and any EVE players they have a defense contract with get a notification that an attack on the district has been registered, so they can scramble a defensive fleet. The other advantage of this system is that it makes location matter. If you take districts in some backwater dead end system 2 jumps from the closest temperate planet, then your system will be much easier to defend in EVE than a district on a planet in the main drag with two temperate planets in system and 3 more within two jumps. You also have to worry about roving PVP gangs who will kill the Warbarge just for the kill mail, which are more of a risk in high traffic areas. Every gate the Warbarge has to go through has the potential for a gate camp. So attacking way behind enemy lines would be really risky EVE side unless you have a massive fleet defending the Warbarge. The most important part of this for me is to make location matter so that the choice of which districts to attack feels more like a strategy board game. Right now with Clone packs it is like a board game where you can move any piece to any square in one move. You are arguing the same point I made. The difference between you and me is that you want a 24-48 hour timer between when the warbarge is moved and when the battle starts. Logistically, in Eve, this doesn't make sense. For Eve, it makes more sense to have the warbarge anchor closer to when the battle begins. It is like when your POCO gets attacked. You get a notification when it gets attacked so you can scramble and react to the attack. If the POCO gets reinforced, then you have time to arrange things a pull together a full fleet for when it comes out of Reinforced.
Only in PC the second battle will involve controlling the skies so you can drop orbitals. You will want to use different ships for the second phase than you used to try to destroy the Warbarge, so having the match begin immediately after the Warbarge arrives would not give you long to reship.
Besides, as many people have already pointed out you donGÇÖt want to muster a full team of DUST mercenaries and then not have the battle happen because the Warbarge was destroyed. By having the reinforcement timber after the Warbarge anchors, the DUST players get plenty of notice that the match will or will not happen.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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