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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2421
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Posted - 2014.02.06 11:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:One thing that disturbs me about Eve control of clone transportation is the implications of long-scale conflict.
CCP hinted that Eve ships might one day be transporting reinforcements and supplies to an active battle in Dust. If the pans out it will mean that Eve pilots will be focused on not only delivery but also running actual logistic lines into contested territory.
This would be great if it meant that a large-scale battle on the ground will mimic what we've already seen in Eve, but the potential for supply lines to be bogged down in Time Dilation, effectively cutting off supplies due to too many participants in system, would cut short the kind of Dust side scale of conflict that Eve has made international news with. If we get enough EVE pilots to care about DUST to produce a Time Dilation effect, I would consider that a triumph! The number of EVE pilots in one battle to produce those recent heavy Time Dilation fights would have approached the total number of people playing dust at that moment.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2421
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Posted - 2014.02.06 13:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
Since people are posting in this thread, rather than following the link to the Feedback thread, I went ahead and copied the full suggested mechanic to the original post.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2361
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Ship flies to planet, with clones in cargo, drops them off to district. Once present, war can be declared and then do the 24 hour thing so everybody is informed and can schedule play time. Battle timer hits zero and battle begins. Otherwise, they sit there for whenever a battle is declared, ready to go. Dislike. One of the major points of moving the clones is to generate PvP fights in Eve. If you can do this easily and without risk, there is no value to do this from the Eve side. There has to be risk - Eve is about conflict whether it is ship to ship, or market bidding wars. Moving clones alone is not enough - you have to move the warbarge and MCC, as well as any installations you plan to deploy (remember this is a feature coming as well). That is why I included the mechanic of having to register the intended target of the attack with CONCORD before you are able to move clones to the Warbarge. The defenders and any EVE players they have a defense contract with get a notification that an attack on the district has been registered, so they can scramble a defensive fleet. The other advantage of this system is that it makes location matter. If you take districts in some backwater dead end system 2 jumps from the closest temperate planet, then your system will be much easier to defend in EVE than a district on a planet in the main drag with two temperate planets in system and 3 more within two jumps. You also have to worry about roving PVP gangs who will kill the Warbarge just for the kill mail, which are more of a risk in high traffic areas. Every gate the Warbarge has to go through has the potential for a gate camp. So attacking way behind enemy lines would be really risky EVE side unless you have a massive fleet defending the Warbarge. The most important part of this for me is to make location matter so that the choice of which districts to attack feels more like a strategy board game. Right now with Clone packs it is like a board game where you can move any piece to any square in one move.
You are arguing the same point I made. The difference between you and me is that you want a 24-48 hour timer between when the warbarge is moved and when the battle starts. Logistically, in Eve, this doesn't make sense. For Eve, it makes more sense to have the warbarge anchor closer to when the battle begins.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2361
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Denn Maell wrote:One thing that disturbs me about Eve control of clone transportation is the implications of long-scale conflict.
CCP hinted that Eve ships might one day be transporting reinforcements and supplies to an active battle in Dust. If the pans out it will mean that Eve pilots will be focused on not only delivery but also running actual logistic lines into contested territory.
This would be great if it meant that a large-scale battle on the ground will mimic what we've already seen in Eve, but the potential for supply lines to be bogged down in Time Dilation, effectively cutting off supplies due to too many participants in system, would cut short the kind of Dust side scale of conflict that Eve has made international news with. If we get enough EVE pilots to care about DUST to produce a Time Dilation effect, I would consider that a triumph! The number of EVE pilots in one battle to produce those recent heavy Time Dilation fights would have approached the total number of people playing dust at that moment.
TiDi will only be a factor once this moves into Sov mechanics.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2433
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Posted - 2014.02.07 11:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Ship flies to planet, with clones in cargo, drops them off to district. Once present, war can be declared and then do the 24 hour thing so everybody is informed and can schedule play time. Battle timer hits zero and battle begins. Otherwise, they sit there for whenever a battle is declared, ready to go. Dislike. One of the major points of moving the clones is to generate PvP fights in Eve. If you can do this easily and without risk, there is no value to do this from the Eve side. There has to be risk - Eve is about conflict whether it is ship to ship, or market bidding wars. Moving clones alone is not enough - you have to move the warbarge and MCC, as well as any installations you plan to deploy (remember this is a feature coming as well). That is why I included the mechanic of having to register the intended target of the attack with CONCORD before you are able to move clones to the Warbarge. The defenders and any EVE players they have a defense contract with get a notification that an attack on the district has been registered, so they can scramble a defensive fleet. The other advantage of this system is that it makes location matter. If you take districts in some backwater dead end system 2 jumps from the closest temperate planet, then your system will be much easier to defend in EVE than a district on a planet in the main drag with two temperate planets in system and 3 more within two jumps. You also have to worry about roving PVP gangs who will kill the Warbarge just for the kill mail, which are more of a risk in high traffic areas. Every gate the Warbarge has to go through has the potential for a gate camp. So attacking way behind enemy lines would be really risky EVE side unless you have a massive fleet defending the Warbarge. The most important part of this for me is to make location matter so that the choice of which districts to attack feels more like a strategy board game. Right now with Clone packs it is like a board game where you can move any piece to any square in one move. You are arguing the same point I made. The difference between you and me is that you want a 24-48 hour timer between when the warbarge is moved and when the battle starts. Logistically, in Eve, this doesn't make sense. For Eve, it makes more sense to have the warbarge anchor closer to when the battle begins. It is like when your POCO gets attacked. You get a notification when it gets attacked so you can scramble and react to the attack. If the POCO gets reinforced, then you have time to arrange things a pull together a full fleet for when it comes out of Reinforced.
Only in PC the second battle will involve controlling the skies so you can drop orbitals. You will want to use different ships for the second phase than you used to try to destroy the Warbarge, so having the match begin immediately after the Warbarge arrives would not give you long to reship.
Besides, as many people have already pointed out you donGÇÖt want to muster a full team of DUST mercenaries and then not have the battle happen because the Warbarge was destroyed. By having the reinforcement timber after the Warbarge anchors, the DUST players get plenty of notice that the match will or will not happen.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2362
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Posted - 2014.02.07 13:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
I still prefer my suggestion.
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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