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Lex DOCIEL
What The French
16
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Posted - 2014.02.04 14:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I first wrote this two posts in the Feedback Request: Dropsuit Stats and Skills! topic. But as they have been completely drown under other debates about other dropsuits, and because I think it does need some real discussion, here it comes again, under a proper named topic.
So please scout players, give it a proper thought, take the time to read it and understand it completely. Do see further than public games. Check out what could scouts become in highly organized FW or PC games. And then, post your feedbacks, ideas and questions. Let's help CCP make scout a viable and highly useful job in Dust514.
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#361 Posted: 2014.02.03 15:16
FEEDBACK ON SCOUTS
I am quite doubtful regarding these new dropsuit stats. The way I saw scout before 1.8 announcement, and the way I conceive them now is still quite the same. The new stats and passive should give them all a specific task on the battlefield, while following each race archetype. Which is currently not the case.
I think we could give them all a fair chance to be useful on the battleground.
First, on the overall, scouts don't need one more module slot. They only need a small boost in their base shield and armor stats. 5 slots is enough room to customization on a proto dropsuit. My feedback will be based on such a principle:
1 - basic scout dropsuit = 2 mods (enough to try out the scout gameplay. Even more if base stats are slightly better)
2 - advanced scout dropsuit = 3 mods
3 - proto scout dropsuit = 5 mods
Second, I was at first hostile to implementing cloaking devices. But I must admit it could really make some difference on the battlefield for us, while allowing us to carry one more equipment if needed. Adaptability being key for a scout, I admit it to be a great idea in the end. Still, I would not add scan reduction upon its activation: sound and vision is 2 different things and should be adress by 2 different solutions. It is simply not needed with the upcoming scanners. The scout dropsuit passive skill regarding the cloak is good. Keep it like that (plus we don't know much more anyway).
Third, scouts are all about passive scanners, scan profile, scan detection and scan radius. This is their field, and they should be built upon that. As I always say, a scanned scout is a dead one, most of the time.
Fourth, we must understand that if most players focus atm on a specific dropsuit (meaning a specific race AND a specific role), good experienced players will have to train several dropsuits to allow a consistency in their gameplay, and an adaptability on the battlefield and the maps. Which means the best scout players will have to put SP on several different proto dropsuits, from different races, in order to respond to the needs of their squad and team. THIS is the reason why scouts from different races should have different impact on the battlefield, while being customizable around these roles, rather than planning on 4 not-so different scout dropsuits with a broader "scout role", and enough mods to make it customizable. Because it will not work in the end. Plus, keep in mind that DUST514 and EVE is about achetypes, roles, and economy. No need for economy if a do-it-all dropsuit scout is enough, whatever the race.
Fifth, this will be my vision of what it could be. I am satisfied on the work that have been done so far on the scouts, and not saying otherwise. This is a feedback, meaning feed + back. I am not judging. Still, I think this could be different, and maybe for the better.
Here are the ideas, in alphabetical order. The details can be discussed later. These suggections only concern PROTO dropsuits. The rest could be expanded from that.
SEE NEXT POST (was too long  )
Your blade is an extension of your mind. It must be swift, silent, focused. And deadly.
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Lex DOCIEL
What The French
16
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Posted - 2014.02.04 14:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
ARCHETYPES, ROLES, PASSIVES AND DROPSUIT MODIFICATIONS
Range explanation:
- close combat = m+¬l+¬e and nova knife
- close range = shotgun and sidearms
- mid range = light weapons
- long range = snipers
underlined = first choice (most favorable)
regular = second choice (a second viable option)
italic = situational (depends on situation / skills / needs)
AMARR
-ñ archetype : Amarrians are known for being tough in every way.
-ñ role : recon. That means being able to cover long distances and see far away. But be able to fight and stand as well.
-ñ engagement distances : mid range / close range / close combat
> racial passive : bonus to stamina and stamina recovery + bonus to scan radius
- high slots = 2
The high slots would be used or damagers and / or m+¬l+¬e damage.
- low slots = 3
The low slots would be used for feroscale plate armors and repairer.
CALDARI
-ñ archetype : Caladarians are known to fight from a distance, while being versatile.
-ñ role : scout. That means focusing on snipers and / or pure scout operations. So, not being seen and being able to see precisely.
-ñ engagement distances : long range / mid range.
> racial passive : bonus to scan precision + bonus to scan profile (no change)
- high slots = 4
Go for shield extenders and light damagers here. This is useful to a fast moving sniper / scout.
- low slots = 1
Stamina mod or reactive plate armor. The goal here is to add sustainability to the chosen role.
GALLENTE
-ñ archetype : gallenteans are know for their ability in developping AI while being versatile as well.
-ñ role : fixer. Sneaking on the enemies and using AI to hack faster.
-ñ engagement distances : close range / mid range
> racial passive : bonus to system hacking speed + bonus to scan profile
- high slots = 1
Allowing maybe one more shield to sustain armor repairing.
- low slots = 4
Can be used for stamina recovery, feroscale armor plates, and a hacking mod.
MINMATAR
-ñ archetype : Minmatarians are all about patchworking and speed. Their moto is hit hard and run faster.
-ñ role : saboteur. Dealing punctual deadly damages to enemy clones or vehicles, and retreat.
-ñ engagement distances : close combat* / close range / mid range
* not a first choice because it is, at the moment, difficult to make it reliable on the battlefield without a cloak.
-ñ racial passive : bonus to sidearms damagers + bonus to scan precision
- high slots = 3
Damagers and shields.
- low slots = 2
Stamina and / or scan profile and / or reactive armor plate for sustainability
REBALANCE THE MOD FITTINGS
In order to make it even more viable and playable for any scout from any race, I think we do need to make an importance change regarding kynetic catalization. Rather than a low slot mod, make it a high slot module.
Here was the feedback of a scout player. Hope it would be of any help.
Your blade is an extension of your mind. It must be swift, silent, focused. And deadly.
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ALPHA DECRIPTER
Dragon-Empire
702
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Posted - 2014.02.04 16:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
2-3-5 slots make the std and adv suits less effective then they are now so no to that. Keep current counts and move the 2nd high slot to a low slot (adv G-scout) and I'm good (not gonna nay-say the extra slot that CCP is throwing us though).
You want to take away my bonus range to give me hacking? Well I do love my hacking so I suppose that's alright.
Minnie get a bonus to sidearm damage mods is kinda narrow but then again there current bonus to knives is even more narrow so also alright.
Cals are snipers...seems obvious.
Amarr getting my range is ok as only having the stamina boost seems a bit UP to me.
Scout Tactician
Dance puppets, DANCE!
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Lex DOCIEL
What The French
Never.Surrender
21
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Posted - 2014.02.16 14:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
I dislike doing such a thing, but as the topic means a lot to me, and as I would it to be discussed : UP ! 
Your blade is an extension of your mind. It must be swift, silent, focused. And deadly.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
381
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Posted - 2014.02.16 15:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aside from the Amarrian bonuses and the Caldari Scan Precision (I feel the base is a little too high for them to function as Scout hunters) I don't feel your changes are necessary. The proposed 1.8 changes are more the excellent for the class, they allow the specialisation to perform their role well, but aren't tied in to one playstyle either. |
Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
216
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Posted - 2014.02.16 16:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lex DOCIEL wrote:
AMARR
-ñ archetype : Amarrians are known for being tough in every way.
-ñ role : recon. That means being able to cover long distances and see far away. But be able to fight and stand as well.
-ñ engagement distances : mid range / close range / close combat
> racial passive : bonus to stamina and stamina recovery + bonus to scan radius
- high slots = 2
The high slots would be used or damagers and / or m+¬l+¬e damage.
- low slots = 3
The low slots would be used for feroscale plate armors and repairer.
The Amarr like to stand and fight but not up close. They are more of a mid-long range combatant than anything so mid range/long range would be a bit more apt. They focus on armor and information so I like your idea for the bonus to stamina but think the second bonus should be more combat oriented. I am not sure how a more balanced slot layout will help them armor tank though. If anything I would swap their layout with the Gallente as the Amarr are supposed to do more mass armor tanking. I would call them more of an assault scout than recon.
Lex DOCIEL wrote:
CALDARI
-ñ archetype : Caladarians are known to fight from a distance, while being versatile.
-ñ role : scout. That means focusing on snipers and / or pure scout operations. So, not being seen and being able to see precisely.
-ñ engagement distances : long range / mid range.
> racial passive : bonus to scan precision + bonus to scan profile (no change)
- high slots = 4
Go for shield extenders and light damagers here. This is useful to a fast moving sniper / scout.
- low slots = 1
Stamina mod or reactive plate armor. The goal here is to add sustainability to the chosen role.
The Caldari like to fight from a distance with railguns or missile and lots of shields, they aren't really into being versatile. They also don't focus on not being see, for them it's more about seeing their opponent and them being far enough away that it doesn't matter if you see them. Their like information and shield warfare so I like the bonus to scan range but the reduction to profile isn't a good fit, I think the scan precision bonus fits them perfectly.
Lex DOCIEL wrote:
GALLENTE
-ñ archetype : gallenteans are know for their ability in developping AI while being versatile as well.
-ñ role : fixer. Sneaking on the enemies and using AI to hack faster.
-ñ engagement distances : close range / mid range
> racial passive : bonus to system hacking speed + bonus to scan profile
- high slots = 1
Allowing maybe one more shield to sustain armor repairing.
- low slots = 4
Can be used for stamina recovery, feroscale armor plates, and a hacking mod.
While they did develop AI and they are more of an infiltrator than a fixer. They sneak in, move undetected, accomplish the objective, and then get out. I think a 2/3 slot lay out would make more sense but only if certain modules were moved from lows to highs. Although I see why you gave them hacking I think it fits the Minmatar's saboteur style of play better.
Lex DOCIEL wrote:
MINMATAR
-ñ archetype : Minmatarians are all about patchworking and speed. Their moto is hit hard and run faster.
-ñ role : saboteur. Dealing punctual deadly damages to enemy clones or vehicles, and retreat.
-ñ engagement distances : close combat* / close range / mid range
* not a first choice because it is, at the moment, difficult to make it reliable on the battlefield without a cloak.
-ñ racial passive : bonus to sidearms damagers + bonus to scan precision
- high slots = 3
Damagers and shields.
- low slots = 2
Stamina and / or scan profile and / or reactive armor plate for sustainability
I wouldn't say patchwork as much as versatility but hit hard and run fast is most certainly them. They aren't information warfare based so I wouldn't say the scan precision bonus is fitting and the bonus so sidearm damage to vague. I think the hacking bonus is great for them and perhaps +1/level to spare REs so they can set "traps".
Note: I also think some of the modules need moved around, mostly dampeners to highs and scan precision to lows. This way Caldari can do precision or range with shields and Gallente can do damps with armor. Lore wise armor tankers have a lower dB rating than the "electronically noisy" shields so shield tankers getting more out of dampeners really irks me. I came across a dampened Caldari assault the other day who could avoid my ADV scanner and it really irritated me because that is supposed to be a Gallente tactic.
Also precision mod bonus should equal dampener bonus but won't be balanced if scout scan dB is 10 higher than their profile. |
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