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Chris F2112 Pradox One Proficiency V. 539	Posted - 2014.01.31 18:50:00 - [1] - Quote For the past few weeks I've spent all my time playing this game in dropships (perhaps a few of you have played with or against my dropship alt Jet Starflyer) and this is by far the best balance pass at dropships that has been done in my time playing. Dropships may be a bit to susceptible to red line rails and they are still often killed by terrible rdv glitches, but they are finally a viable and fun way to play. Obviously some tweaks are needed but I'm really enjoying it right now. Just figured I'd put out one dropship post that isn't complaining.
FrozenChaos The Neutral Zone 31	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:01:00 - [2] - Quote I agree though collision damage is kind of a pain
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 891	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:04:00 - [3] - Quote I disagree, before 1.7 I could easily go 20+ kills a match in my ads now I can't even take off because of redline rails Join the Channel - CPM1 Candidates - Get to know who's running. Delt for CPM1
Chris F2112 Pradox One Proficiency V. 540	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:06:00 - [4] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: I disagree, before 1.7 I could easily go 20+ kills a match in my ads now I can't even take off because of redline rails Yeah, that's the biggest problem with dropships right now. I also think assault forge guns are a little too powerful doing both more damage and firing faster than the normal variant. Swarms definitely need a buff.
Lv2spd2 Slow And Old 182	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:09:00 - [5] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: I disagree, before 1.7 I could easily go 20+ kills a match in my ads now I can't even take off because of redline rails How often do you actually get shot down after you manage to get fully off the ground and in full flight though?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10474	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:13:00 - [6] - Quote Redline rails are really the only issue. I mean, railguns in general are a bit obnoxious right now, but the redline just encourages very low skilled players to stay there all match, and even rewards them for it. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Chris F2112 Pradox One Proficiency V. 541	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:21:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Redline rails are really the only issue. I mean, railguns in general are a bit obnoxious right now, but the redline just encourages very low skilled players to stay there all match, and even rewards them for it. Rails are a good counter to dropships and that's alright. I just don't like the no risk redline sniping where they can hit you without fear of retaliation.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 237	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:35:00 - [8] - Quote I am (still) tired of losing dropships to other people ramming me out of the air... Or in a case from yesterday softly bumping me out of the air (I lost all hp from a ds moving at 7m/s). That and redline rails are my biggest grievances with dropships currently.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2795	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:41:00 - [9] - Quote Dropships might be "ok" for dealing damage, but they won't be in a good place until they are effective at their main transport role. That won't happen until we see new communication/coordination mechanisms that allow and encourage mercs to board a dropship for a drop on an objective. The transport awards are in place, but incentives mean nothing without the ability to carry out the mission.
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 322	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:48:00 - [10] - Quote Main Dropship Problems Here's a top 10 list from most annoying to least 1. Random combustion - Why is unknow 2. RDV - the only other flying thing in the game - and a pilots worst enemy 3. Modual glitching - mainly with shield booster, sometimes they just don't work also the selection wheel is glitchy 4. Rails - their simpy OP 5. Tanks - to much heath 6. Redlining - Annoying exploit 7. Collision damage - highly unreliable 8. Assult FG to much damage - has to have higher DPS then the normal one but less damage per shot 9. Radar dosent work on the DS - dont know why, even for friendlies 10. Theres no ejection button for when blueberries are in your DS - please CCP we need this Swarms don't need a buff, they are a no skill weapon also Proto can easily kill when in range . "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

Vag Eye Lenol Planetary Asset Protection Services 28	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:51:00 - [11] - Quote Forgot one, a dropship just flipping over, and no way to prevent or flip it back, have to recall and call in another one... valuable time wasted to an oversight :P
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 561	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:52:00 - [12] - Quote Make railguns have a optimal of 350, effective off 450, and dropship will be good. If tanks want to kill dropships, they'll have to leave the redline. Also, ADS need a huge price reduction.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 143	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:54:00 - [13] - Quote The real issue currently is that ordinary dropships are pointless for lone wolfs and ADS cost hundreds of thousands of SP. It should be the other way around, considering that ADS are basically less specialized with the fact that they can be operated solo.
Chris F2112 Pradox One Proficiency V. 542	Posted - 2014.01.31 20:01:00 - [14] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Main Dropship Problems Here's a top 10 list from most annoying to least 1. Random combustion - Why is unknow 2. RDV - the only other flying thing in the game - and a pilots worst enemy 3. Modual glitching - mainly with shield booster, sometimes they just don't work also the selection wheel is glitchy 4. Rails - their simpy OP 5. Tanks - to much heath 6. Redlining - Annoying exploit 7. Collision damage - highly unreliable 8. Assult FG to much damage - has to have higher DPS then the normal one but less damage per shot 9. Radar dosent work on the DS - dont know why, even for friendlies 10. Theres no ejection button for when blueberries are in your DS - please CCP we need this Swarms don't need a buff, they are a no skill weapon also Proto can easily kill when in range . Most of those are spot on. I disagree with a few though. I think tank health is actually fine. Even with an advanced turret I generally have no problems killing off most tanks, even gunnloggis or madrugars. Never had a problem with blotchy modules either. When I started I would mess up and deactivate my hardeners every once in a while but once I figured that was my error I haven't had problems since. And I actually haven't needed an ejection button in forever. Completely disagree about swarms. I shrug those of like nothing. They need more damage and less pushing power.
Chris F2112 Pradox One Proficiency V. 542	Posted - 2014.01.31 20:03:00 - [15] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Make railguns have a optimal of 350, effective off 450, and dropship will be good. If tanks want to kill dropships, they'll have to leave the redline. Also, ADS need a huge price reduction. I almost break even right now. They don't need a price reduction. Tanks just need to cost WAY more.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1394	Posted - 2014.01.31 20:31:00 - [16] - Quote Skihids wrote: Dropships might be "ok" for dealing damage, but they won't be in a good place until they are effective at their main transport role. That won't happen until we see new communication/coordination mechanisms that allow and encourage mercs to board a dropship for a drop on an objective. The transport awards are in place, but incentives mean nothing without the ability to carry out the mission. An older video many have seen but if readers have not seen it, have a look. Its to get people thinking, not we must do this; type of video. As to the OP. I think it is kind of hard to tell at the moment. Redline rails are breaking any chance we have to assess balance. In my experience when redline rails are gone, as I play with CEOPyrex, Bamm Havoc, and Delb0y every night so they kill tanks for me, there is a worry that dropships MIGHT be unbalanced if rail tanks are treated too harshly. I hate redline tanks like all pilots, BUT if we hit their stats too hard dropships lose a powerful foe. This will make the game less, not more. Lets be careful here. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
HYENAKILLER X AGGRESSIVE TYPE 530	Posted - 2014.01.31 20:33:00 - [17] - Quote Lol why because av is garbage? Smh. You are welcome for my leadership *Proven Aggressive Type
Squagga The State Protectorate 111	Posted - 2014.01.31 20:34:00 - [18] - Quote As far as being able ot take damage and not falling from the sky like tables yes. Godawful haphazard manuevers that come outta nowhere! Could be better. Cost is still a bit too high. Getting to the objective on time. Priceless Reloading, the silent killer.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 634	Posted - 2014.01.31 21:18:00 - [19] - Quote Redline anything sucks in my opinion, but right now those redline rail tanks along with it actually taking skill to fly dropships are the only 2 things keeping dropships from absolutely dominating this game like they did for a while in early chromosome. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Chris F2112 Pradox One Proficiency V. 544	Posted - 2014.01.31 21:22:00 - [20] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Redline anything sucks in my opinion, but right now those redline rail tanks along with it actually taking skill to fly dropships are the only 2 things keeping dropships from absolutely dominating this game like they did for a while in early chromosome. Forge guns and rail tanks that are not in the redline are both legitimate counters to dropships right now. Saying that redline tanks is the only thing keeping them from being overpowered is misguided to say the least.

Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 262	Posted - 2014.01.31 21:34:00 - [21] - Quote Chris F2112 wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Redline anything sucks in my opinion, but right now those redline rail tanks along with it actually taking skill to fly dropships are the only 2 things keeping dropships from absolutely dominating this game like they did for a while in early chromosome. Forge guns and rail tanks that are not in the redline are both legitimate counters to dropships right now. Saying that redline tanks is the only thing keeping them from being overpowered is misguided to say the least. As far as tanks are considered where are you going to find the elevation that's not in the redline to aim at that dropship? Favorable inclines aren't everywhere nor are always conveniently placed so you can aim at the dropship you want to shoot at. Outside the redline forges are really the only thing that threatens DS pilots who aren't a total idiots. 32db Mad Bomber.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1397	Posted - 2014.01.31 21:38:00 - [22] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: ...but right now those redline rail tanks along with it actually taking skill to fly dropships are the only 2 things keeping dropships from absolutely dominating this game..... This is not true. Adam Of Eve (proto Forge) and I had a great fight on Monday this week, He kept me at bay and got my to 300 HP twice. Only leaving when my modules were cooling stopped him killing me. Forge Guns and swarms kill and deter dropships just fine. I see this comment often. But it just does not happen in game. I have been in and seen games where AV was non existent. Who dominated? Mr Rail Rife or Mr Combat Rife. Sure Noone killed the dropship and it did okay but they rarely if ever do better than an infantry player. Dropships are a medium threat at their best. The real threat is on the ground right with you. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Terram Nenokal Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 302	Posted - 2014.01.31 21:41:00 - [23] - Quote The only thing that needs to be fixed to make dropships very worthwhile would be to add falloff to large rails. Otherwise, they're awesome. Loving to hate and hating to love Dust 514 since May 2012
Chris F2112 Pradox One Proficiency V. 544	Posted - 2014.01.31 21:43:00 - [24] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: ...but right now those redline rail tanks along with it actually taking skill to fly dropships are the only 2 things keeping dropships from absolutely dominating this game..... This is not true. Adam Of Eve (proto Forge) and I had a great fight on Monday this week, He kept me at bay and got my to 300 HP twice. Only leaving when my modules were cooling stopped him killing me. Forge Guns and swarms kill and deter dropships just fine. I see this comment often. But it just does not happen in game. I have been in and seen games where AV was non existent. Who dominated? Mr Rail Rife or Mr Combat Rife. Sure Noone killed the dropship and it did okay but they rarely if ever do better than an infantry player. Dropships are a medium threat at their best. The real threat is on the ground right with you. In games with no av I can easily get 20 kills or so. A decent Dropship pilot with no av is going to either dominate or force their entire team indoors.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 376	Posted - 2014.01.31 21:48:00 - [25] - Quote Chris F2112 wrote: For the past few weeks I've spent all my time playing this game in dropships (perhaps a few of you have played with or against my dropship alt Jet Starflyer) and this is by far the best balance pass at dropships that has been done in my time playing. Dropships may be a bit to susceptible to red line rails and they are still often killed by terrible rdv glitches, but they are finally a viable and fun way to play. Obviously some tweaks are needed but I'm really enjoying it right now. Just figured I'd put out one dropship post that isn't complaining. Vehicules : Dropships/ Tanks are totally ****** up and almost unkillable because of hardeners. Sorry but to me a transport aerial should'nt resist to 5 players shooting it with AV weapons / grenades during 15 sec. After some count : 4 Plasma Cannon from me. / 3 EX-0 nade. 4 others player : 4 Swarm launcher shot / lot of AV grenades. He came 20 sec after totally full hp. Sorry something is wrong.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 145	Posted - 2014.01.31 21:56:00 - [26] - Quote I had to learn the hard way that ADS turrets do not work like you would expect them to. I thought my enemy was still aligning the gun while I was charging my plasma cannon. I didn't even get my shot off. Also, do ADS not appear on the radar for anyone else? They can fly literally right above my head and stalk me without me noticing. There isn't even much of a sound that they make, in contrast to HAVs and LAVs. They are pretty easy to hit with the cannon at short ranges, though. I have yet to get enough shots in, but one hit completely evaporates shielding.
Zirzo Valcyn Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2014.01.31 22:08:00 - [27] - Quote i just had an epic domination with a gorgon fit, picked up a random sniper who scored a few kills. ds success is so random we were kamikazeed by a caldari and lost only our shields then i saw +50 for vehicle kill assist, random CRU gunner spawned in on small rail turret and finished off the kamikazee viper my luck- every time i organize a dropship crew we are thrown a catastrophic match, then i go random and it's epic. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 653	Posted - 2014.01.31 22:21:00 - [28] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: ...but right now those redline rail tanks along with it actually taking skill to fly dropships are the only 2 things keeping dropships from absolutely dominating this game..... This is not true. Adam Of Eve (proto Forge) and I had a great fight on Monday this week, He kept me at bay and got my to 300 HP twice. Only leaving when my modules were cooling stopped him killing me. Forge Guns and swarms kill and deter dropships just fine. I see this comment often. But it just does not happen in game. I have been in and seen games where AV was non existent. Who dominated? Mr Rail Rife or Mr Combat Rife. Sure Noone killed the dropship and it did okay but they rarely if ever do better than an infantry player. Dropships are a medium threat at their best. The real threat is on the ground right with you. Swarms are pointless, deter won't win games, and you are not rewarded for being useless outside of making an ADS go away for a grand total of 15 seconds. Meanwhile he kills and collects WP until you "deter" again. More than 1 person deterring? Numerical advantage.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6085	Posted - 2014.01.31 22:26:00 - [29] - Quote I would agree with you... But I've shot a dropship three times with my swarms and he just flied off to safety, only to return in like 10 seconds so we can do this dance again. Eventually he killed me, but that just shows how swarms are pathetic against dropships. Before ANYONE says anything, that was a proto swarm with triple damage mods. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 146	Posted - 2014.01.31 22:26:00 - [30] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: ...but right now those redline rail tanks along with it actually taking skill to fly dropships are the only 2 things keeping dropships from absolutely dominating this game..... This is not true. Adam Of Eve (proto Forge) and I had a great fight on Monday this week, He kept me at bay and got my to 300 HP twice. Only leaving when my modules were cooling stopped him killing me. Forge Guns and swarms kill and deter dropships just fine. I see this comment often. But it just does not happen in game. I have been in and seen games where AV was non existent. Who dominated? Mr Rail Rife or Mr Combat Rife. Sure Noone killed the dropship and it did okay but they rarely if ever do better than an infantry player. Dropships are a medium threat at their best. The real threat is on the ground right with you. Swarms are pointless, deter won't win games, and you are not rewarded for being useless outside of making an ADS go away for a grand total of 15 seconds. Meanwhile he kills and collects WP until you "deter" again. More than 1 person deterring? Numerical advantage. CCP has talked about being able to gain WP based on dealing damage, not just killing a target. So if you beat up a dropship really good but fail to defeat it you will still get points. WP farming won't be a concern because they have a mechanic that prevents you from earning too much WP in too short of a time.

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10478	Posted - 2014.01.31 22:27:00 - [31] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I would agree with you... But I've shot a dropship three times with my swarms and he just flied off to safety, only to return in like 10 seconds so we can do this dance again. Eventually he killed me, but that just shows how swarms are pathetic against dropships. Before ANYONE says anything, that was a proto swarm with triple damage mods. We all know swarms are useless right now Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 634	Posted - 2014.01.31 22:29:00 - [32] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: ...but right now those redline rail tanks along with it actually taking skill to fly dropships are the only 2 things keeping dropships from absolutely dominating this game..... This is not true. Adam Of Eve (proto Forge) and I had a great fight on Monday this week, He kept me at bay and got my to 300 HP twice. Only leaving when my modules were cooling stopped him killing me. Forge Guns and swarms kill and deter dropships just fine. I see this comment often. But it just does not happen in game. I have been in and seen games where AV was non existent. Who dominated? Mr Rail Rife or Mr Combat Rife. Sure Noone killed the dropship and it did okay but they rarely if ever do better than an infantry player. Dropships are a medium threat at their best. The real threat is on the ground right with you. While you are correct about the other ground pounders being more of a threat, I can at least kill them. As someone who is not specced into Sentinel or tanks there is not much I can do against drop ships because my adv. swarms are pathetic and only a really dumb pilot would ever let me destroy him with them. Missles are also no where near what they were when improvised gunships were wrecking the battlefield either. I was writing with some bit of hyperbole. While I am glad that my pilot friends can have fun in the air again the average joe on the ground needs to be able to at least drive off good drop ship pilots and should be able to destroy the suck ones. Swarms need a little buff Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2796	Posted - 2014.01.31 22:46:00 - [33] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Skihids wrote: Dropships might be "ok" for dealing damage, but they won't be in a good place until they are effective at their main transport role. That won't happen until we see new communication/coordination mechanisms that allow and encourage mercs to board a dropship for a drop on an objective. The transport awards are in place, but incentives mean nothing without the ability to carry out the mission. An older video many have seen but if readers have not seen it, have a look. Its to get people thinking, not we must do this; type of video. As to the OP. I think it is kind of hard to tell at the moment. Redline rails are breaking any chance we have to assess balance. In my experience when redline rails are gone, as I play with CEOPyrex, Bamm Havoc, and Delb0y every night so they kill tanks for me, there is a worry that dropships MIGHT be unbalanced if rail tanks are treated too harshly. I hate redline tanks like all pilots, BUT if we hit their stats too hard dropships lose a powerful foe. This will make the game less, not more. Lets be careful here. It's a nice mechanic, but it needs to be reversed. The dropship pilot should advertise the assault target much like the squad leader does today and infantry would sign on as members of his assault team. Every team member would see markers for the ship and the attack target. Dropships don't work well as taxis carrying one merc at a time. It's a waste of capacity and lone mercs don't make an effective assault. I'd go so far as to suggest placing rooftop snipers is counter productive to your team. Each merc that joins the assault would shift voice coms to the dropship. Additionally they would get a cues such as a "Jump Light" that the pilot would activate when over the objective.
Turtle Hermit Roshi D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 55	Posted - 2014.01.31 22:49:00 - [34] - Quote actually ive started to think bout specing into 1 since im starting to like em and they dont get swatted by noob swarms KA-ME-HA-MEHAAAAAA the turtle hermit: professional Heavy
Zirzo Valcyn Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2014.01.31 22:55:00 - [35] - Quote i'll give it all up only if they return the prenerf afterburner that thing was beast u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1399	Posted - 2014.01.31 23:07:00 - [36] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: As far as tanks are considered where are you going to find the elevation that's not in the redline to aim at that dropship? Favorable inclines aren't everywhere nor are always conveniently placed so you can aim at the dropship you want to shoot at. Outside the redline forges are really the only thing that threatens DS pilots who aren't a total idiots. Almost anywhere. See my map of iron Delta as an example and this image of tank elevation. In this image of Iron dalta, the red zone is any area on the map a rail tank can hit me when I am 100 meters in the air. The blue zone is the safe area. I tested this by using 3 people, going onto an object backing up with tank gun at max then using pythageras to get the angle. Tanks have a 45 degree elevation. This chart is actually a SCALE map of this map, Spine cresent. The forge gunner (the person) is at the objective on the bridge. As you can see a tank can hit a dropship that is 200m in the air from 200m away. What is the world like to a dropship at 200m> This. in otherwords...tiny dots. We operateat 100m normally, what does this look like? This. See that Muzzle flash, thats you from 100m up. So look at this chart again. Look at the 100 meter line. See the issue? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Chris F2112 Pradox One Proficiency V. 546	Posted - 2014.01.31 23:29:00 - [37] - Quote I've grown better at identifying forges based on the charging light actually. That's by far the easiest way to tell who's about to kill meand focus on them.
Roofer Madness Tickle My Null-Sac 796	Posted - 2014.01.31 23:32:00 - [38] - Quote I've spent a lot of time in the skies in 1.7. I agree that things are a lot better but it doesn't matter if rails are so broken. If they fix that then drop ships will be quite fun. I spent half my ISK on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10479	Posted - 2014.01.31 23:46:00 - [39] - Quote The thing about swarms is that they're tricky to balance because if the top end gets too much better, they suddenly become an incredibly simple to use weapon that just pops everything that moves. At least the forge gun takes much more immediate skill, particularly against a pilot of similar skill. I love dip and dodging shots, and I'm in a plated Incubus. Those Python guys are tricky to hit, but a good forge gunner takes his LAV on the hunt, preferably with at least one buddy manning the railgun in the back, which can put a serious hurt on dropships who decide to ignore it for too long, or softening it up for the AV as you approach and open fire. Swarms just need to apply their damage more reliably, and standard and advanced need a bit of a damage buff. Proto could use the tiniest buff to damage, but their damage is actually about spot on once it's maxed and paired with complex damage mods. Being able to apply the damage quicker and more reliably will go a very long way towards balancing them out vs dropships Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Scheneighnay McBob Learning Coalition College 3859	Posted - 2014.01.31 23:46:00 - [40] - Quote They only have 2 flaws IMO: 1. Too susceptible to redline rails 2. Afterburners cool down too quickly I am your scan error.



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