DUST Search - Eve/Dust markets and why they prolly wont happen anytime soon...

m twiggz wrote:

Teilka Darkmist wrote:

m twiggz wrote:

DeathwindRising wrote:

-SNIP-

...There's already ways for Dust players/corps with Eve players to transfer ISK between games. Players offer this transition already and it hasn't hurt the price of Plex...

...There's ways to transfer isk between games? How? Because my merc could do with a few more isk (got protostomped a few times last night and had to restock) and just a straight 'Give Money' from Eve doesn't work, the option's not there anymore in fact...

The only way to transfer ISK between games is through other players. There's a few people, including myself, who offer this exchange at what we believe to be a fair exchange rate. The two most known people for doing it are Kain Spero and Min Lo.

You give 'X' amount of Dust ISK and receive 'X' amount of Eve ISK, or you give 'X' amount of Eve ISK and receive 'X' amount of Dust ISK.

The median rate we all go by is;
600m Eve ISK buys 70m Dust ISK.
120m Dust ISK buys 600m Eve ISK.

As you request lower amounts the ratio drops. This helps people Plex on Eve if they preferred to play Dust that month, or helps Eve players fund their Dust characters if they run out of ISK.

Of course there's a lot of trust involved. When I was new to Eve I did this through Min Lo and it helped me out a lot. Now that I'm both Eve and Dust "wealthy" I offer my services out to mostly just friends. This is actually the first time I've posted it publicly.

When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.

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DeathwindRising ROGUE SPADES 221	Posted - 2014.01.31 05:29:00 - [1] - Quote whats CCP going to do when they merge the Eve and Dust markets and all the dust players buy eve plex buy the dozens for free? and i mean free as in not playing the game at all and just collecting isk from locked pc districts. wont that hurt CCP's bottom line? or is CCP going free to play lol? what happens when CCP gives us all of New Eden's low and null sec systems for pc? every player in New Eden could have a planet for themselves and generate isk for free and buy plex. what about inflation? market prices will skyrocket lol
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2275	Posted - 2014.01.31 05:43:00 - [2] - Quote No, CCP will gain the same amount of money ether way. Because the Plex that people will be buying is plex that someone already bought from CCP using real money and is now reselling for ISK. Selling Rare Templar BPO's 250Mil ISK
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 324	Posted - 2014.01.31 05:46:00 - [3] - Quote message from Godin: You realize that 1: People buys the plexs for sale on the market 2: plexs cost 600 mil ISK atm 3: before taxes, some Caps make enough ISK a day to never have to pay CCP a penny ever again?
JL3Eleven 1692	Posted - 2014.01.31 05:47:00 - [4] - Quote Because Space Magic and of a huge conversion cost (Hopefully). I will pay 1 Billion ISK for a Thale's TAR-07 Sniper Rifle BPO.
DeathwindRising ROGUE SPADES 221	Posted - 2014.01.31 05:49:00 - [5] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: No, CCP will gain the same amount of money ether way. Because the Plex that people will be buying is plex that someone already bought from CCP using real money and is now reselling for ISK. thats true. but what about inflation? if the amount of isk goes up then prices on everything will follow. Eve has seen a steady rate of inflation for years now
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 317	Posted - 2014.01.31 05:52:00 - [6] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: whats CCP going to do when they merge the Eve and Dust markets and all the dust players buy eve plex buy the dozens for free? and i mean free as in not playing the game at all and just collecting isk from locked pc districts. wont that hurt CCP's bottom line? or is CCP going free to play lol? what happens when CCP gives us all of New Eden's low and null sec systems for pc? every player in New Eden could have a planet for themselves and generate isk for free and buy plex. what about inflation? market prices will skyrocket lol There's already ways for Dust players/corps with Eve players to transfer ISK between games. Players offer this transition already and it hasn't hurt the price of Plex. Before they add more districts they need to overhaul PC completely. There will be a currency exchange rate between games much like countries in the real world. (Dev posted this a while back) Questions answered. /thread.
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis CALSF 574	Posted - 2014.01.31 05:55:00 - [7] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: whats CCP going to do when they merge the Eve and Dust markets and all the dust players buy eve plex buy the dozens for free? and i mean free as in not playing the game at all and just collecting isk from locked pc districts. wont that hurt CCP's bottom line? or is CCP going free to play lol? what happens when CCP gives us all of New Eden's low and null sec systems for pc? every player in New Eden could have a planet for themselves and generate isk for free and buy plex. what about inflation? market prices will skyrocket lol Well let's just say that dust prices need to be dropped across the board. If you want no tax reduction on trades with eve capsuleers. Because some equipment in eve costs the same as on dust. Like tanks they cost as much as drones atm which seems balanced till you realise the drones don't die as much. Which also says most proto dropsuit's also cost more which is wierd. The market will be very delicate to setup give it time We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Scott Knight Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 25	Posted - 2014.01.31 06:56:00 - [8] - Quote Who knows proto suits might become cheap :)
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6657	Posted - 2014.01.31 07:18:00 - [9] - Quote You're assuming PLEX even becomes accessible to Dust players. You're also assuming that Planetary Conquest won't get fixed or overhauled by then. CCP already knows that PC needs serious rebalancing and that it will one day be directly tied to market economics. So to ensure a stable economy, you'll need to stabilize PC first. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 470	Posted - 2014.01.31 07:24:00 - [10] - Quote It's going to be interesting to see just how much Proto equipment sky rockets in price when the market goes live. Hell, everything is going to be expensive at the start.

Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6658	Posted - 2014.01.31 07:39:00 - [11] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: It's going to be interesting to see just how much Proto equipment sky rockets in price when the market goes live. Hell, everything is going to be expensive at the start. That will definitely address protostomping, wouldn't it? Imagine paying 10million ISK for a single proto suit. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 572	Posted - 2014.01.31 07:46:00 - [12] - Quote It would be quite hard to earn that much ISK on Dust to pay for a plex in a single month. Isk is a lot easier to get in Eve. However, PC farms have allowed for huge amounts of Isk to flood Dust. CCP is going yo have to fix PC and possibly even address all that ISK before the 2 games could be connected.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 403	Posted - 2014.01.31 07:47:00 - [13] - Quote There has to be a conversion cost. In my battleship several, several years ago, I could pull in about 50 million an hour just doing level 4 missions without getting lucky and getting a module that sold a little bit better than expected. And that is chump change. That's not just basic high Security ratting. In the same amount of time, I think a DUST player would be lucky to make 2 million. When I put on my big boy pants and went into far lower Security, it was far more money.. Ships you get for free from doing the start quests are worth nearly a million (destroyers). Jeez, even grabbing a newbie Mining Frigate that only takes a couple of days to be able to train into can make a lot of money (where DUST is concerned) mining Veldspar in high Security Space. The Titanomachy that just happened had players losing 100 billion for their Titans and maybe another 2 to 5 billion on their pods. Frankly, DUST players do not make enough money to have any impact on the economics of EVE without their being a fairly hefty conversion rate. I do know that before the market goes live, I am buying lots of everything I use. Even if the price of the stuff is lower after several months, the first few weeks are going to be insane.
Teilka Darkmist 157	Posted - 2014.01.31 07:49:00 - [14] - Quote m twiggz wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: whats CCP going to do when they merge the Eve and Dust markets and all the dust players buy eve plex buy the dozens for free? and i mean free as in not playing the game at all and just collecting isk from locked pc districts. wont that hurt CCP's bottom line? or is CCP going free to play lol? what happens when CCP gives us all of New Eden's low and null sec systems for pc? every player in New Eden could have a planet for themselves and generate isk for free and buy plex. what about inflation? market prices will skyrocket lol There's already ways for Dust players/corps with Eve players to transfer ISK between games. Players offer this transition already and it hasn't hurt the price of Plex. Before they add more districts they need to overhaul PC completely. There will be a currency exchange rate between games much like countries in the real world. (Dev posted this a while back) Questions answered. /thread. There's ways to transfer isk between games? How? Because my merc could do with a few more isk (got protostomped a few times last night and had to restock) and just a straight 'Give Money' from Eve doesn't work, the option's not there anymore in fact. From what little I've heard, the player market and the eve/dust link are already mostly done with just a couple of kinks to work out. Things like how to buy things that are in a different system to the one you're in and how to be able to sell to another system considering mercs can't currently travel at will. Personally, I think that eve and dust shouldn't have a conversion rate. The new eden in dust is the same as the new eden in eve, if 1isk in Gallente space (for example) equals 1 isk in Caldari space (no exchange rate between actual nations in game) it should be the same going from dust to eve and back. Or give dust it's own currency, maybe whatever the non-immortals use day to day in the empires. We know from lore that it's not isk. Call them credits maybe and give that an exchange rate. As far as prices go, market forces will work that out. As the first step to linking the markets will be a hybrid of NPC and player sales CCP will get to set the upper price, any sensible capsuleer industrial type will realise that if they sell higher than the price CCP sets, the mercs will buy the CCP gear and they'll be out the cost of the materials to make everything. So they'll price lower. Later, CCP will pull out the NPC sales and the market will go fully player based (except for probably things like skill books) at which point the prices will find a level and stay roughly there depending on what the dust player base can afford and are willing to pay. If the rewards from playing dust aren't enough to be able to afford to buy equipment, CCP will have to raise the reward rate, by the time they pull the NPC gear, they'll have numbers which tell them how likely the price of merc gear is to go up or down, and roughly how much by looking at supply and demand for the items and they cost of materials to make them so it's not like overnight the prices will shoot up so high we can't afford it. Once again, industrial types aren't stupid, if most can't afford to pay, their stuff isn't going to sell. Additionally, with the linking of the markets, dust players should be able to buy plex and convert them to isk, just as an eve player can. (Although I know that not all dust players will be financially able to do that so CCP shouldn't rely on that to say they don't need to balance rewards.) When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 878	Posted - 2014.01.31 07:50:00 - [15] - Quote The eve/dust market is going to be based on a lot of factor not in dust yet such as pve etc.Pve to create salvage - sell to eve- eve makes items- we buy items to use in pvp- eve makes money which they offer on contracts to dust to capture districts-dust loses money and items taking district-eve player makes money from owning district- merc on ground gets more contracts-when not on contract merc does more pve. Eventually us mercs are not going to own any districts. The fact we can do it now is likely just a placeholder untill eve and dust are fully integrated. Remember all the bonuses for districts are eve related. I doubt anyone in eve is going to let a small merc corp hold one of their districts. They will pay allot to kick you out and likely bankrupt those corps that refuse to move on. Farming pc is is likely not going to be an issue after a month or 2 of eve funded land grabbing. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 324	Posted - 2014.01.31 08:27:00 - [16] - Quote Teilka Darkmist wrote: m twiggz wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: -SNIP- ...There's already ways for Dust players/corps with Eve players to transfer ISK between games. Players offer this transition already and it hasn't hurt the price of Plex... ...There's ways to transfer isk between games? How? Because my merc could do with a few more isk (got protostomped a few times last night and had to restock) and just a straight 'Give Money' from Eve doesn't work, the option's not there anymore in fact... The only way to transfer ISK between games is through other players. There's a few people, including myself, who offer this exchange at what we believe to be a fair exchange rate. The two most known people for doing it are Kain Spero and Min Lo. You give 'X' amount of Dust ISK and receive 'X' amount of Eve ISK, or you give 'X' amount of Eve ISK and receive 'X' amount of Dust ISK. The median rate we all go by is; 600m Eve ISK buys 70m Dust ISK. 120m Dust ISK buys 600m Eve ISK. As you request lower amounts the ratio drops. This helps people Plex on Eve if they preferred to play Dust that month, or helps Eve players fund their Dust characters if they run out of ISK. Of course there's a lot of trust involved. When I was new to Eve I did this through Min Lo and it helped me out a lot. Now that I'm both Eve and Dust "wealthy" I offer my services out to mostly just friends. This is actually the first time I've posted it publicly.
Teilka Darkmist 157	Posted - 2014.01.31 10:22:00 - [17] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: m twiggz wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: -SNIP- ...There's already ways for Dust players/corps with Eve players to transfer ISK between games. Players offer this transition already and it hasn't hurt the price of Plex... ...There's ways to transfer isk between games? How? Because my merc could do with a few more isk (got protostomped a few times last night and had to restock) and just a straight 'Give Money' from Eve doesn't work, the option's not there anymore in fact... The only way to transfer ISK between games is through other players. There's a few people, including myself, who offer this exchange at what we believe to be a fair exchange rate. The two most known people for doing it are Kain Spero and Min Lo. You give 'X' amount of Dust ISK and receive 'X' amount of Eve ISK, or you give 'X' amount of Eve ISK and receive 'X' amount of Dust ISK. The median rate we all go by is; 600m Eve ISK buys 70m Dust ISK. 120m Dust ISK buys 600m Eve ISK. As you request lower amounts the ratio drops. This helps people Plex on Eve if they preferred to play Dust that month, or helps Eve players fund their Dust characters if they run out of ISK. Of course there's a lot of trust involved. When I was new to Eve I did this through Min Lo and it helped me out a lot. Now that I'm both Eve and Dust "wealthy" I offer my services out to mostly just friends. This is actually the first time I've posted it publicly. I should have known something like this was happening, this is New Eden after all. I think that personally I'll stick to just playing the game, if I get too low on decent gear, I'll drop back to militia and build up isk that way. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Lonegnr Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 60	Posted - 2014.01.31 12:26:00 - [18] - Quote Teilka Darkmist wrote: Personally, I think that eve and dust shouldn't have a conversion rate. The new eden in dust is the same as the new eden in eve, if 1isk in Gallente space (for example) equals 1 isk in Caldari space (no exchange rate between actual nations in game) it should be the same going from dust to eve and back. Or give dust it's own currency, maybe whatever the non-immortals use day to day in the empires. We know from lore that it's not isk. Call them credits maybe and give that an exchange rate. Previous poster was correct that devs have already mentioned planning a conversion rate. It would be silly if they made it easy to buy a ~$20 PLEX and turn it into 600+ mil for dust since it seriously cripples the demand for Aurum.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1703	Posted - 2014.01.31 12:32:00 - [19] - Quote Lonegnr wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: Personally, I think that eve and dust shouldn't have a conversion rate. The new eden in dust is the same as the new eden in eve, if 1isk in Gallente space (for example) equals 1 isk in Caldari space (no exchange rate between actual nations in game) it should be the same going from dust to eve and back. Or give dust it's own currency, maybe whatever the non-immortals use day to day in the empires. We know from lore that it's not isk. Call them credits maybe and give that an exchange rate. Previous poster was correct that devs have already mentioned planning a conversion rate. It would be silly if they made it easy to buy a ~$20 PLEX and turn it into 600+ mil for dust since it seriously cripples the demand for Aurum. Giving Dust it's own currency isn't a bad idea, but it still implements a conversion rate. Won't cripple demand for Aurum. There are boosters. Which will probably become Dusts PLEX: I cann see a single booster going for something like 50 Million Dust ISK. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 327	Posted - 2014.01.31 12:35:00 - [20] - Quote Lonegnr wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: Personally, I think that eve and dust shouldn't have a conversion rate. The new eden in dust is the same as the new eden in eve, if 1isk in Gallente space (for example) equals 1 isk in Caldari space (no exchange rate between actual nations in game) it should be the same going from dust to eve and back. Or give dust it's own currency, maybe whatever the non-immortals use day to day in the empires. We know from lore that it's not isk. Call them credits maybe and give that an exchange rate. Previous poster was correct that devs have already mentioned planning a conversion rate. It would be silly if they made it easy to buy a ~$20 PLEX and turn it into 600+ mil for dust since it seriously cripples the demand for Aurum. Giving Dust it's own currency isn't a bad idea, but it still implements a conversion rate. Agreed, there would HAVE to be an exchange rate. I can easily pull in a couple hundred million a day Eve side, Dust side that's literally impossible... Unless you're a part of the giant RA blue donut... Anyways, if I could send that 200m I made in one day to my Dust character at no exchange rate I could run proto suits for weeks, months even. Hell I could fund a full on Dust war with a weeks worth of Eve ISK grinding with no exchange rate.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6085	Posted - 2014.01.31 12:53:00 - [21] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: No, CCP will gain the same amount of money ether way. Because the Plex that people will be buying is plex that someone already bought from CCP using real money and is now reselling for ISK. thats true. but what about inflation? if the amount of isk goes up then prices on everything will follow. Eve has seen a steady rate of inflation for years now What little money exists in DUST is chump change in EVE. No seriously, what all of the DUST corps made from PC combined, one moderately rich EVE player has. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Teilka Darkmist 158	Posted - 2014.01.31 18:34:00 - [22] - Quote Lonegnr wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: Personally, I think that eve and dust shouldn't have a conversion rate. The new eden in dust is the same as the new eden in eve, if 1isk in Gallente space (for example) equals 1 isk in Caldari space (no exchange rate between actual nations in game) it should be the same going from dust to eve and back. Or give dust it's own currency, maybe whatever the non-immortals use day to day in the empires. We know from lore that it's not isk. Call them credits maybe and give that an exchange rate. Previous poster was correct that devs have already mentioned planning a conversion rate. It would be silly if they made it easy to buy a ~$20 PLEX and turn it into 600+ mil for dust since it seriously cripples the demand for Aurum. Giving Dust it's own currency isn't a bad idea, but it still implements a conversion rate. Personally I think that the fact that Aurum's only really good for boosters is what cripples the demand for aurum. Proto Isk gear is better, at least in terms of CPU and PG than the equivalent Proto Aurum gear. I know that as I skill into more proto gear, I'll be ditching the Aur stuff for Isk stuff. Personally I think that the market, when it gets past the hybrid stage it will have to start at, will deal with any problems with selling plex in eve and transfferring 600m+ isk to Dust, plus what's the point in doing that too much? Sure it lets you buy loads of gear, but you'll still have the same slots and stats. Having a lot of everything won't make a huge difference. I don't know about anyone else, but I make sure before I go into the battlefinder, that I have enough of each fit that I can comfortably switch between them at any point and still have plenty left over. Then I only replace what I use, and occasionally play around with modules and suits to see if I can come up with something better, but for that I buy maybe 5 of whatever I don't have already to test with, then I have enough so I can be sure of a thorough test and if I don't like the fit, I haven't spend too much on the experiment. I realise that Dust having it's own currency would implement an exchange rate, that was my whole point basically. In New Eden, an isk should be worth the same wherever you are. It doesn't make sense that an isk in space around a planet isn't worth an isk on the ground on that planet. An alternative currency for none capsuleers is already part of the lore (although I can't remember what it was called.) Isk were supposedly worth so much because it was used by the major companies and governments for interstellar trade on a scale that individuals would only very rarely be at. Capsuleers came along and started using isk because they're buying highly expensive ships and ship parts with it. Dust merc equipment may be expensive for an average working mortal, but it's not on the same scale as even a frigate. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1703	Posted - 2014.01.31 18:35:00 - [23] - Quote i don't want an eve/dust market. i want a dust market.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 869	Posted - 2014.01.31 18:51:00 - [24] - Quote Don't forget booster sales. Assuming CCP allows us to sell boosters on the market for ISK, they will function much like PLEX does in EVE. It will probably increase income for CCP. Best PvE idea ever!
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2794	Posted - 2014.01.31 18:58:00 - [25] - Quote The EVE and DUST economies are orders of magnitude apart. EVE plots are the super rich who can buy and sell huge ships while DUST mercenaries the middle class who buy individual suits. Economically we travel in completely different universes. EVE pilots can buy and sell entire DUST corporations. The problem for CCP is that it costs very little real money to become an uber rich EVE pilot who could then be used to keep a DUST merc in proto gear and vehicles no matter how much he lost. If you concentrated on ISK generation your EVE pilot would likely be Plexing in short order so you wouldn't have to maintain a real dollar investment to keep it going. CCP has no option but to apply a conversion rate such that each side has to work about as hard for the same in game advantage, and that's never going to change. If you think PC farming is bad, just imagine a DUST corp running an EVE mining and manufacturing fleet to keep its members floating in ISK.


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