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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
136
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 08:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok i'm tired of arguing with people about av and tanks so here I'll put everything in this post
For 1 AV is fine the way it is people just need to understand how to fight them and to use more than just std or militia grade weapons and CCP has stated the tanks would have strong poriods and weak ones so for instance you hit a tank with your forge and he turns on his hardner and ignoring you or runs most likely ignore from what I am hearing simply wait for his hardner to turn off and he is in his weak state to where you can own him or simply hit him with enough avd and proto av and he can't handle all that though it wouldn't take but maybe 2-3 with proto av to overpower a tank but thats how CCP has intended for av to be
Now on to tanks as we do have a few issues 1 being blasters are weaker now for some reason though not in the way people think it hurts infantry alot but we don't want to nerf it because it would make it unable to fight a tank as it is unpowered vs a tank now anyway so I would suggest increasing it's damage to shields in the past it used to tear through shield so why not keep it like that so it would eat a shield tank and a armor tank which even now is less and then you wouldn't make it any stronger vs infantry thus fixing the issue or blasters being so weak vs other tanks
Now for redline tanks and trust me this is easier we all can agree the railgun is strong as hell as a anti-vehicle gun should be however since it's so powerful nerfing seems fair however the issue would be the damage mods most will graba sica with a militia railgun and put damage mods on it's already powerful gun taking out tanks and others while sitting in the redline so take out railgun damage mods since they are powerful enough without them why do we need them with my proto railgun it takes maybe 3-4 shots to kill a dropship and like 6 at least on a tank with hardners on and I don't use damage mods so for me it feels balanced so simply remove the damage mods for railguns and people would be less tempted to hide in the redline let alone have much damage while there plus dropships won't be hammered as bad
Now last thing that I noticed so far is the hardners it's harder to fit 2 hardners on a armor tank since we need the armor rep and we lack the cpu and pg for that and 2 hardners so it applies mostly to shield tanks for wahtever reason having 2 shield hardners with 60% resistance is overpowering as hell even with the penalty it's way to high that even my proto railgun is being laughed at and almost doing no damage so I would say limit hardners to 1 per tank and that would solve this and in my opinion after all of this I would say it be alot more balanced and like I said av is fine is people could use thier heads and wait for the tank to enter his weak period if the tanker ain't smart enough to hide during that time and if the AVer's were using something above std and we all be good
Yeah I think I'm done now
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
137
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Posted - 2014.01.30 10:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
I love posting threads because for whatever reason everyone ignores mine lol I feel special LOL |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
100
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Posted - 2014.01.30 10:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
how many militia swarms should it take to kill a militia tank? |
N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
1935
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:how many militia swarms should it take to kill a militia tank? 3-4 when not hardened.
Minmatar Assault.
Hopeful Caldari Scout soon. praying for that respec.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1419
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:I love posting threads because for whatever reason everyone ignores mine lol I feel special LOL
Grammar, formatting, spelling, proper paragraphing, these are all your friends.
Biggest pointer?
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. There are SO many threads to which you could add your opinion.
No-one wants to make the blaster stronger v. infantry. They want to make it WEAKER. And I agree. Needs an AI nerf, or an AV nerf. Definitely not a buff.
Removing damage mods? Bad idea. They're the counter for hardeners, and don't actually negate them on a 1-1 basis; hardener are more valuable than damage mods, considering it takes two damage mods to negate a hardener (or something). Remove stacking of damage mods, that I can agree.
Hardener stacking needs a nerf. This is what's causing all the complaints about HAVs.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1737
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:how many militia swarms should it take to kill a militia tank? 3-4 when not hardened.
And how many before the tanker retreats when hardened?
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1738
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
And as I said in every other tank thread, what do you do while you wait? If you're defending a point do you just hide in a corner and hope the infantry don't mop you up?
Or do you somehow have to escape the onslaught of a hardened tank find a superior position where you know the tanker will not have hardeners can't escape and will eventually sucum to his demise? By which point, the battle is lost because the tankered slaughtered everyone at the letter and really your kill is worth nothing more than petty revenge on a tankers wallet?
Yes hardners are meant to be strong, strong enough that assaulting a position because viable, not so strong that it guarentees success. If we are to go along logical lines it is safe to say that the ROLE of AV (excluding its use in gorilla warfare tactics) should be to stave off an assault from a Heavy Attack Vehicle. It needs to be strong enough that tanker will be forced to pull out of the assault BEFORE his hardners run out.
So for example the shield hardner giving 40 secs, up time, it would be fair to assume that AV could make it pull out at maybe 20-30 secs, this is one AV user. This is what the whole waves of opportunity philosophy is all about.
A wave of OPPURTUNITY Not, A wave of slaughter everything that moves with very little chance of reprisal. And for the love of god blasters don't need a buff, they kill faster than an AR, with magazine nearly 3 times the size, that should be enough.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
139
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:I love posting threads because for whatever reason everyone ignores mine lol I feel special LOL Grammar, formatting, spelling, proper paragraphing, these are all your friends. Biggest pointer? USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. There are SO many threads to which you could add your opinion. No-one wants to make the blaster stronger v. infantry. They want to make it WEAKER. And I agree. Needs an AI nerf, or an AV nerf. Definitely not a buff. Removing damage mods? Bad idea. They're the counter for hardeners, and don't actually negate them on a 1-1 basis; hardener are more valuable than damage mods, considering it takes two damage mods to negate a hardener (or something). Remove stacking of damage mods, that I can agree. Hardener stacking needs a nerf. This is what's causing all the complaints about HAVs. I knew the reason why I was being a smartass but it got you to type but it is kinda hard to have all that when your using the ps4 to type all this I wasn't saying to buff the blasters vs infantry just that if it was mean't for AV that they would need to buff the damage it does to shields without touching damage so as to not make it worse on infantry but it they wanted it as a AI weapon then nerf it some or leave it as it is
As for the damage mods they actually mean alot more and it only takes 1 damage mod to overpower a hardner unless they got 2 since most the time you only see railgun tanks using damage mods but anyway I wasn't saying remove all damage mods just that damage mods can unbalance the weapons alot I was simply saying remove the damage mods for railguns not for missles or blasters unless CCP felt they didn't need them because the railgun with a damage mods can basicly 3-4 shot any tank with 1-2 damage mods easy and really the railguns alpha damage is high enough that it shouldn't need one |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
103
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:how many militia swarms should it take to kill a militia tank? 1 when not hardened.
fixed that for ya.
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
139
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 11:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:And as I said in every other tank thread, what do you do while you wait? If you're defending a point do you just hide in a corner and hope the infantry don't mop you up?
Or do you somehow have to escape the onslaught of a hardened tank find a superior position where you know the tanker will not have hardeners can't escape and will eventually sucum to his demise? By which point, the battle is lost because the tankered slaughtered everyone at the letter and really your kill is worth nothing more than petty revenge on a tankers wallet?
Yes hardners are meant to be strong, strong enough that assaulting a position because viable, not so strong that it guarentees success. If we are to go along logical lines it is safe to say that the ROLE of AV (excluding its use in gorilla warfare tactics) should be to stave off an assault from a Heavy Attack Vehicle. It needs to be strong enough that tanker will be forced to pull out of the assault BEFORE his hardners run out.
So for example the shield hardner giving 40 secs, up time, it would be fair to assume that AV could make it pull out at maybe 20-30 secs, this is one AV user. This is what the whole waves of opportunity philosophy is all about.
A wave of OPPURTUNITY Not, A wave of slaughter everything that moves with very little chance of reprisal. And for the love of god blasters don't need a buff, they kill faster than an AR, with magazine nearly 3 times the size, that should be enough. That is true but you got to look at it from the way CCP made the game which some don't seem to do and that is the Teir system as ****** up a system it is they still made and use it militia is at the bottom of the bracket and therefor should be the weakest if you used adv or proto with dmg mods and prof at a decent lvl like say 3+ you will achive this goal quite easily as a tanker I've had it plenty of times where I was made to run by groups or even a single infantry hitting me with hardcore AV setups and have even killed me I've had to run many times i'm also a sniper and I normally use a railgun not a blaster hell I don't even got blasters lvled up so if I can I will snipe him otherwise I will run |
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
139
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 11:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:N1ck Comeau wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:how many militia swarms should it take to kill a militia tank? 1 when not hardened. fixed that for ya. and this is why your an idiot hell you make it seem like your from call of duty who wants the easy way out there is a tier system for a reason militia is the bottom of the barrel GET OVER IT |
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
139
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 11:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
And guys what I suggested wasn't a buff to blasters it was a blaster buff to AV NOT AI meaning it would not even effect Infantry in any way, shape, form or fasion I simply said increase the damage it does to shields not increase the blasters dmg so basicly say it does 100% dmg to shields and it's base damage it 50 boost it up to 125% damage to shields but guess what it's base daamge is STILL 50 thus barely effecting hell not even effecting infantry and that is if they wanted it a AV weapon if they wanted it an AI weapon I clearly said that if they wanted it an AI weapon to just leave it alone or maybe lower it just a little cause it's doing it's job
NOWHERE did I say to buff the blasters actually base damage |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1739
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 11:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:And as I said in every other tank thread, what do you do while you wait? If you're defending a point do you just hide in a corner and hope the infantry don't mop you up?
Or do you somehow have to escape the onslaught of a hardened tank find a superior position where you know the tanker will not have hardeners can't escape and will eventually sucum to his demise? By which point, the battle is lost because the tankered slaughtered everyone at the letter and really your kill is worth nothing more than petty revenge on a tankers wallet?
Yes hardners are meant to be strong, strong enough that assaulting a position because viable, not so strong that it guarentees success. If we are to go along logical lines it is safe to say that the ROLE of AV (excluding its use in gorilla warfare tactics) should be to stave off an assault from a Heavy Attack Vehicle. It needs to be strong enough that tanker will be forced to pull out of the assault BEFORE his hardners run out.
So for example the shield hardner giving 40 secs, up time, it would be fair to assume that AV could make it pull out at maybe 20-30 secs, this is one AV user. This is what the whole waves of opportunity philosophy is all about.
A wave of OPPURTUNITY Not, A wave of slaughter everything that moves with very little chance of reprisal. And for the love of god blasters don't need a buff, they kill faster than an AR, with magazine nearly 3 times the size, that should be enough. That is true but you got to look at it from the way CCP made the game which some don't seem to do and that is the Teir system as ****** up a system it is they still made and use it militia is at the bottom of the bracket and therefor should be the weakest if you used adv or proto with dmg mods and prof at a decent lvl like say 3+ you will achive this goal quite easily as a tanker I've had it plenty of times where I was made to run by groups or even a single infantry hitting me with hardcore AV setups and have even killed me I've had to run many times i'm also a sniper and I normally use a railgun not a blaster hell I don't even got blasters lvled up so if I can I will snipe him otherwise I will run
Well that is true but also if you look at how CCP have done the game from my perspective. There aren't any tiered hulls, yet their is tiered AV. So either a std a AV unit should be capable of combating a tank with std level mods or tiering with AV is pointless. This doesn't happen as Im sure you are aware, so unless they are going to make the same mistake they did in chromosone amd give proto hulls, then balance tiered AV we would be better with just mlt and std AV.
For clarification on what I mean, back in chromo we had tiered hulls AND tiered AV, BUT anything less would get wrecked by both. So proto AV was overpowered against std tanks, yet proto tanks were pretty damn overpowered. So proto hulls were removed, but they lest in the proto AV. This created a vacuum, In the beginning of uprising, where everyone still had the overpowered AV but not the tanks. In short tanks and AV needs a crude form of tiericed, in that their is no proto hulls and their is proto AV. Otherwise you would start needing to adjust hardner profiles and damage mods and that is just not needed.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
139
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 12:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:And as I said in every other tank thread, what do you do while you wait? If you're defending a point do you just hide in a corner and hope the infantry don't mop you up?
Or do you somehow have to escape the onslaught of a hardened tank find a superior position where you know the tanker will not have hardeners can't escape and will eventually sucum to his demise? By which point, the battle is lost because the tankered slaughtered everyone at the letter and really your kill is worth nothing more than petty revenge on a tankers wallet?
Yes hardners are meant to be strong, strong enough that assaulting a position because viable, not so strong that it guarentees success. If we are to go along logical lines it is safe to say that the ROLE of AV (excluding its use in gorilla warfare tactics) should be to stave off an assault from a Heavy Attack Vehicle. It needs to be strong enough that tanker will be forced to pull out of the assault BEFORE his hardners run out.
So for example the shield hardner giving 40 secs, up time, it would be fair to assume that AV could make it pull out at maybe 20-30 secs, this is one AV user. This is what the whole waves of opportunity philosophy is all about.
A wave of OPPURTUNITY Not, A wave of slaughter everything that moves with very little chance of reprisal. And for the love of god blasters don't need a buff, they kill faster than an AR, with magazine nearly 3 times the size, that should be enough. That is true but you got to look at it from the way CCP made the game which some don't seem to do and that is the Teir system as ****** up a system it is they still made and use it militia is at the bottom of the bracket and therefor should be the weakest if you used adv or proto with dmg mods and prof at a decent lvl like say 3+ you will achive this goal quite easily as a tanker I've had it plenty of times where I was made to run by groups or even a single infantry hitting me with hardcore AV setups and have even killed me I've had to run many times i'm also a sniper and I normally use a railgun not a blaster hell I don't even got blasters lvled up so if I can I will snipe him otherwise I will run Well that is true but also if you look at how CCP have done the game from my perspective. There aren't any tiered hulls, yet their is tiered AV. So either a std a AV unit should be capable of combating a tank with std level mods or tiering with AV is pointless. This doesn't happen as Im sure you are aware, so unless they are going to make the same mistake they did in chromosone amd give proto hulls, then balance tiered AV we would be better with just mlt and std AV. For clarification on what I mean, back in chromo we had tiered hulls AND tiered AV, BUT anything less would get wrecked by both. So proto AV was overpowered against std tanks, yet proto tanks were pretty damn overpowered. So proto hulls were removed, but they lest in the proto AV. This created a vacuum, In the beginning of uprising, where everyone still had the overpowered AV but not the tanks. In short tanks and AV needs a crude form of tiericed, in that their is no proto hulls and their is proto AV. Otherwise you would start needing to adjust hardner profiles and damage mods and that is just not needed. I've been around for a long time so I knew what you mean't but it's always was unbalanced in some way thus is the reason they went back to the basics with tanks there will be more tier hulls just not until everything is sorted out right now it feels more balanced then it ever has when it comes to av and tanks I can't make these idiots use swarms or forge guns above std lvl if they not smart enough to go higher on the tier to take out tanks then even if there was a adv and proto tank they couldn't be helped while I get what you mean I feel it's more balanced now then it ever was not including blasters I'm even wondering what CCP wants from them they op to infantry which for a tank ain't to big a deal when you compare it to a gattling gun in real life and underpowered vs a tank so blaster overall is all ****** up
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1739
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Posted - 2014.01.30 12:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:And as I said in every other tank thread, what do you do while you wait? If you're defending a point do you just hide in a corner and hope the infantry don't mop you up?
Or do you somehow have to escape the onslaught of a hardened tank find a superior position where you know the tanker will not have hardeners can't escape and will eventually sucum to his demise? By which point, the battle is lost because the tankered slaughtered everyone at the letter and really your kill is worth nothing more than petty revenge on a tankers wallet?
Yes hardners are meant to be strong, strong enough that assaulting a position because viable, not so strong that it guarentees success. If we are to go along logical lines it is safe to say that the ROLE of AV (excluding its use in gorilla warfare tactics) should be to stave off an assault from a Heavy Attack Vehicle. It needs to be strong enough that tanker will be forced to pull out of the assault BEFORE his hardners run out.
So for example the shield hardner giving 40 secs, up time, it would be fair to assume that AV could make it pull out at maybe 20-30 secs, this is one AV user. This is what the whole waves of opportunity philosophy is all about.
A wave of OPPURTUNITY Not, A wave of slaughter everything that moves with very little chance of reprisal. And for the love of god blasters don't need a buff, they kill faster than an AR, with magazine nearly 3 times the size, that should be enough. That is true but you got to look at it from the way CCP made the game which some don't seem to do and that is the Teir system as ****** up a system it is they still made and use it militia is at the bottom of the bracket and therefor should be the weakest if you used adv or proto with dmg mods and prof at a decent lvl like say 3+ you will achive this goal quite easily as a tanker I've had it plenty of times where I was made to run by groups or even a single infantry hitting me with hardcore AV setups and have even killed me I've had to run many times i'm also a sniper and I normally use a railgun not a blaster hell I don't even got blasters lvled up so if I can I will snipe him otherwise I will run Well that is true but also if you look at how CCP have done the game from my perspective. There aren't any tiered hulls, yet their is tiered AV. So either a std a AV unit should be capable of combating a tank with std level mods or tiering with AV is pointless. This doesn't happen as Im sure you are aware, so unless they are going to make the same mistake they did in chromosone amd give proto hulls, then balance tiered AV we would be better with just mlt and std AV. For clarification on what I mean, back in chromo we had tiered hulls AND tiered AV, BUT anything less would get wrecked by both. So proto AV was overpowered against std tanks, yet proto tanks were pretty damn overpowered. So proto hulls were removed, but they lest in the proto AV. This created a vacuum, In the beginning of uprising, where everyone still had the overpowered AV but not the tanks. In short tanks and AV needs a crude form of tiericed, in that their is no proto hulls and their is proto AV. Otherwise you would start needing to adjust hardner profiles and damage mods and that is just not needed. I've been around for a long time so I knew what you mean't but it's always was unbalanced in some way thus is the reason they went back to the basics with tanks there will be more tier hulls just not until everything is sorted out right now it feels more balanced then it ever has when it comes to av and tanks I can't make these idiots use swarms or forge guns above std lvl if they not smart enough to go higher on the tier to take out tanks then even if there was a adv and proto tank they couldn't be helped while I get what you mean I feel it's more balanced now then it ever was not including blasters I'm even wondering what CCP wants from them they op to infantry which for a tank ain't to big a deal when you compare it to a gattling gun in real life and underpowered vs a tank so blaster overall is all ****** up
I agree, tanks are more balanced now then they have ever been, CCP has the right philosophy with this waves of opportunity its just a matter of implementing it correctly. But I will agree to disagree when it comes to adding tiered hulls, I would prefer that they just add specilizations likd the assault and logi suits to the medium suit.
However lets move on to blasters, it is another interesting point you have brought up, personally I believe they should remain as anti-infantry afterall if you remove the ability for a tanker in his tank to effect the infantfy ground battle whats the point in having tanks at all? Instead what needs to happen is the blasters ability for continuous fire needs to be re adjusted. Increase heat buil up slightly, lower heat disapation., this allows it to still be devasting to infantry but in shorter waves, with longer times for repute.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
143
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 12:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
That is actually what I have been throwing around as an idear if blasters were to be anti-infantry make it over heat faster and right now I think it has to much ammo maybe lower dmg just a little and lower ammo clip like in half you over heat before even using like 30% of the clip |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1739
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 12:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:That is actually what I have been throwing around as an idear if blasters were to be anti-infantry make it over heat faster and right now I think it has to much ammo maybe lower dmg just a little and lower ammo clip like in half you over heat before even using like 30% of the clip
That could work, the problem with infantry vs tank warfare is the tanks ability to, just keep going. The waves of opportunity is two tiered, an opportunity for tanks to attack, and lots of little pushes for infantry under seige. This has probably the most level header discussion about tanks for a while, but alas I must dash, my Operating Systems lecture is starting.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
143
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 12:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
and you know what guys since you all seem to have so many issues with tanks like say red line dmg mods railgun tanks and those pesky blaster tanks I've made a channel called tails prower so you all know it's me come to this channel and ask for me and I'll come take care of your tank problem myself my railgun will deal with your red line tankers and blaster tanks and anything else that you don't like
This is me trying to help as most of my battles normally skirmish my team rather we are winning or losing has little to no trouble with tanks and drop ships and sometimes will not even see an LAV
CHANNEL is tails prower just call for me and I'll kill your problem if it calm you guys down i'll glady do it |
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