As a person who's recently started flying ADSs (about a month now), I agree wholeheartedly on almost every point. As fragile and difficult to master as they are, they are ridiculously costly to use because at some point, someone, somehow, will usually bring at least one of your dropships down in any given match unless you stay at the flight ceiling the entire time. I believe things would be better if:

1. Costs were slashed to make ADS piloting viable as a permanent, profitable role. Given tanks' prices right now, I agree that 70k is right about where they should be, not including mods.

2. Collision damage were reduced. Love taps are literally more devastating than damage modded proto rail turrets.

3. Large railgun turrets' effectiveness were nerfed in some fashion. I believe implementing falloff on large rails is the best option, if it is made severe enough that it at least forces them out of the redline if they want to do anything useful, which not only improves our survivability, but gives bluedots and ourselves the opportunity to fight back. Also, this should drastically reduce vehicle call-in destruction.

4. I don't typically have gunners, but if these problems with passenger turrets are true, that is a pretty serious concern. Fix it.

5. For the benefit of the AV players, swarm launchers need a buff. Right now, I mostly just hover, laugh, and rain missiles on them unless there's at least 3 of them. Given our fairly low effective engagement altitude and the fact that, once fired, they continue to track you, it should just be a straight damage buff (as opposed to a range buff) to make them a legitimate threat in our own range. Forges are currently fine against ADS pilots and are effective at chasing me off.

I will, however, disagree on the destabilization. Its primary purpose seems to be to make AV players harder to hit while you're under fire, which is necessary so we simply don't walk all over them, and its secondary purpose is to throw off our control to give the AV players a better chance to make followup shots. Destablization should be left as-is for balance purposes, otherwise ADS piloting would be too easy.

In every respect beyond those listed above, I feel assault dropships are in a good place. In the hands of a skilled pilot, they can perform admirably at both anti-vehicle and anti-infantry, and can provide a number of useful services to the bluedots below.


tl;dr: Reduce prices, nerf large rails, nerf collision damage, fix passenger turrets, buff swarms and ADS piloting will be balanced for both sides.

Prices are fine. My fully proto-ed out fit only costs 500k, or about 2 games, and my ADV fit (which is just as good except against tanks) only costs 400k. You shouldn't be losing dropships more than every 2 games and even still, if prices were dramatically reduced, we'd be having the same problems we're having with tanks currently.

WPs are awarded for supporting your team. As such, killing people nets very few WP compared to logistics. Most dropship pilots usually average about 10 or so kills per match, meaning that you'll have to supplement WP another way. I usually drops some uplinks in high places, but do things that make you useful other than killing people and you should make decent WPs.

I don't usually run side turrets so I can't speak for their effectiveness or bugs.

Plenty of people have learned how to fly, it just takes a lot of patience and practice (and ISK). Resources like Judge Rhadamanthus' videos and the people at 1st Airborne are great for advice and tips. I'm usually happy to help anyone when I'm on.

Rails are broken, but it's just their range. They're meant to take out tanks, so their damage is fine (hardeners can help take a few hits and afterburners are great for dodging). The problem with rails is their range and being able to shoot from the redline. I've proposed a 350m effective range with drop off out to 450m, which would keep rails role as long range anti-vehicle but limit their effectiveness in the redline.

The knock back from infantry AV is the only thing keeping swarms (and forges to some extent) as usable AV verse dropships. I can out DPS any and every swarm launcher suit on my least tanked fitting, the only thing keeping me from killing every swarmer is having to take time to realign after I'm hit by their missiles. Same for forges to a slightly lesser degree.

It's pretty easy to avoid enemy dropships trying to ram you. You just need to keep situational awareness. They're much easier to deal with than jihad jeeps with tanks.

And by the way, missiles can stop shields from regening, I do it all the time (check the sig).

TL;DR: Price is fine, support you team for WP not just killing people, side turrets are probably bugged, put time into practicing flying and get help from other pilots, rails just need a range nerf, knock back is the only thing keeping infantry AV threatening, situational awareness will save you a lot.

In short, the only changes need relating to dropships are a reduction in range to rails and fixing side turrets. Everything else seems fine to me, I have no complaints. Dropships are probably one of the most balanced aspects of the game, currently.

I would like to add to this thread the need for the ability to pitch the Assault Dropship turret in first person, and not just in third.

Being able to aim up and down while in first person would go a long way toward making these aircraft less arduous to use.

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Thanks, I will check the 1st for you. I frequent that channel from time to time.

I think my ADS has an Eh heavy shield extender, Eh shield hardener, Eh after burner ( I prefer this over complex, don't need that much boost), and complex pg.

With missile turret.

I will try out your double hardener version, but speed to me is more important than a double hardener. But as you said, the tank fit is more situational than flexible. I am working up my skills in vehicles. Currently I am working to XT missiles and fitting optimization. I can't remember what my shield optimization is at, 3 maybe.

Agree, but in the long run would probably get you killed. In that mode you are much more stabile, which has great disadvantages.

But it would be interesting if you could press a button to enter 1st person, auto stabilize, and gain pure control of Turning and turret control. Would that be OP?

Prices are fine. My fully proto-ed out fit only costs 500k, or about 2 games, and my ADV fit (which is just as good except against tanks) only costs 400k. You shouldn't be losing dropships more than every 2 games and even still, if prices were dramatically reduced, we'd be having the same problems we're having with tanks currently.

It's pretty easy to avoid enemy dropships trying to ram you. You just need to keep situational awareness. They're much easier to deal with than jihad jeeps with tanks.

What ship variant do you fly? What are some tactics you use against a max sp forge player?

I would like to add to this thread the need for the ability to pitch the Assault Dropship turret in first person, and not just in third.

CCP we all know you hate assault drop ships, since you tried to remove them, but really? Why does the assault drop ship hull have to cost 322k? Is a dropship really that much better than a soma? Or a gunnlogi? A dropship hull cost 4x more than the vehicle that will eventually kill it because tanks rule the sky not dropships.

Regular dropships are affordable but you can't even use those, they don't give you WP like a tank, or hell even an LAV can, blueberries can't even aim with the dropship guns because when the dropship moves the guns freeze and/or instantly jerk forward.

Dropships are so much harder to use than a tank, and for the skill required to use one they aren't that much rewarding. A proto rail can two shot any dropship any day. If anything touches a dropship and by touch I mean poke, massage, caress, the damn thing turns into a fiery ball of death. If any projectile hits you the dropship will tip and fall to its doom, and then there is the new jihad 767 where a player takes a MLT dropship and rams it into yours to cause it to tip and crash. You can't even use a dropship in most matches without having a rail tank on the redline cheap shotting you.

CCP a couple of things need to happen or eventually you won't have pilots left, regardless of anything the impact damage and the destabalization of dropships needs to be severely reduced. From here either or, or both, these should happen assault dropship hull reduced to 70K per hull, or a reduction to rail gun damage, and definitely its range to 250-400m because really? Can my dropship turn around and destroy a gunny my missiles can't even do enough damage to stop him from repairing...

I have a Python and I want to know why does it cost so much when it is so easy to get shot down? Up there in the air there are so many angles to be shot from. So either put some more modules on that bastard or lower the cost. Why does this have to be so damn difficult?