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Triage Hives Should Energize Shields, Not Repair Armor

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Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1824	Posted - 2014.01.26 03:45:00 - [1] - Quote Note: If a relevant topic on this matter has been posted please link it so I may direct traffic that way. / / / / / / / / / Please correct me if I am wrong; it feel as though a major disparity between the shields and armor balance conundrum is the disparity in repair tools. I am suggestion that repair nanohives be converted to the role of shield energizers providing a buff to recharge delay and shield resistance (not shield repair), making repair hive placement crucial as mobile infantry move through hive field to either kick start their shields as they move to the next point or briefly wait to boost the resistance factor of their shields. Methods Described: Infantry runs through -Running through energizer will decrease a recharge delay. Infantry Waits at Energizer -Standing in energizer field uses hive clusters to boost resistance factor of shields (resistance factor to be determined) -Shield Resistance Energy appears as secondary 'stamina' bar. -The Resistance Bar is always in a state of depletion expect when standing in the hive bubble. -When bar is at full resistance, hive cluster are expended at 'high' rate as energizer and suit capacitors are experiencing harmonic resonance which is overheating the cells of the deployed energizer (a sound indication to move out of energizer field is provided) -When outside the hive bubble the resistance bar decreases at a speed proportional to the amount of shield being energized. High Shield hp, Faster Resistance Depletion. Low Shield hp, Slower Resistance Depletion. Thank you for reading this points. I look forward to your input. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1711	Posted - 2014.01.26 03:53:00 - [2] - Quote No, you have self repairs you do not need any more repairs. Learn to use your suit... you know how I use my shield suit? I have level 5 scan range from there if I need to repair my shields in the middle of combat I simply kite the enemy until I have enough HP to re engage... seriously hives is the only thing armor suits have that is a dependant source of HP. People rarely use repair tools, and armor repairs sacrifice to much for little benefit. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1825	Posted - 2014.01.26 04:14:00 - [3] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: No, you have self repairs you do not need any more repairs. Learn to use your suit... you know how I use my shield suit? I have level 5 scan range from there if I need to repair my shields in the middle of combat I simply kite the enemy until I have enough HP to re engage... seriously hives is the only thing armor suits have that is a dependant source of HP. People rarely use repair tools, and armor repairs sacrifice to much for little benefit. Thanks BL4CKST4R, good point on self sufficiency repair by the methods you described. What I am proposing is meant to place a greater dependence on the repair tool and disincentive equipment spam of triage hives to camp objectives in a bubble of health. These energizer units are meant to be placed down in a tactical and systematic method by teams to run along these supply nodes, that a.) decrease the shield delay time and b.) add additional resistance to shields. I would also suggest increasing shield delay for dropsuits to place a greater factor on moving between active energizer nodes. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
jordy mack Ultramarine Corp 126	Posted - 2014.01.26 04:57:00 - [4] - Quote F'n oath they should do shields, they are caldari, with the proposed skill changes a shield logi is going to get a bonus to an armor + ammo, the weakest logi is in the middle of the fight on repper duty, and the other two are racially correct but kinda meh... Your suggested changes Maybe a bit too complicated though, just make them instantly start recharge at the nanite cost of an armor rep. No resistance, no recharge boost(BL4CKST4R), just a kickstart, this way if u are fighting a shield tanker sitting on a hive, he will only be healing at his suits natural rate(20-30hp) about as much as an armor suit on the weakest rep hive. So effectivley(?) U would only lose 20hp from your burst/shot. Also shield tankers would gain no benefit from multiple hives except a larger nanite pool, unlike armour repping hives. They would still have choose betwen high hp or recharge rate. How could any armour tanked, damage modded suit think that isn't fair. Less QQ more PewPew
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1828	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:08:00 - [5] - Quote jordy mack wrote: F'n oath they should do shields, they are caldari, with the proposed skill changes a shield logi is going to get a bonus to an armor + ammo, the weakest logi is in the middle of the fight on repper duty, and the other two are racially correct but kinda meh... dis **** be wack. Your suggested changes Maybe a bit too complicated though, just make them instantly start recharge at the nanite cost of an armor rep. No resistance, no recharge boost(BL4CKST4R), just a kickstart, this way if u are fighting a shield tanker sitting on a hive, he will only be healing at his suits natural rate(20-30hp) about as much as an armor suit on the weakest rep hive. So effectivley(?) U would only lose 20hp from your burst/shot. Also shield tankers would gain no benefit from multiple hives except a larger nanite pool, unlike armour repping hives. They would still have choose betwen high hp or recharge rate. How could any armour tanked, damage modded suit think that isn't fair. How much would you suggest the kickstart cost in terms of nanite cluster. There would also be the matter in that case of units being destroyed to quickly if a shield tanker sits on a hive while being shot. Each time the shield zeros a cluster is eaten. That's why I suggest the added resistance mechanic because nanite usage to kickstart a suits normal repair functions might become problematic if it's only used the context of soaking fire. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12605	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:09:00 - [6] - Quote Shields in New Eden are indeed energy based (unlike star trek's particle based) however also unlike star trek we're unable to convert energy into matter efficiently, In other words unless you have a way of turning triage nanites into quick energized capacitors without shorting then we can talk about hives that repair shields. Now there is shield transferring technology in New Eden that involves generating a shield field in a tunneled projector, matching frequencies then augmenting the energy projection so as long as one does not overcharge beyond containment at a smooth rate it be good to go (think of a high pressure bubble leaking into a lower pressure bubble). In the past one ship would have to share shields with another in order to provide coverage for both but putting both at risk. This method was away with during the civil war between caldari and gallente as technology improved. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 462	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:16:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Shields in New Eden are indeed energy based (unlike star trek's particle based) however also unlike star trek we're unable to convert energy into matter efficiently, In other words unless you have a way of turning triage nanites into quick energized capacitors without shorting then we can talk about hives that repair shields. There nanites that can repair armor, turn into bullets and grenades. Why wouldn't they be able to enter the energy system of a suit and turn into capacitors or turbocharge the suits innate shield regen systems. I am not even a fan of the idea (outside of another hive meant for the job) but come on in a world of nanites repairing damage to ship modules in real time or bring the dead back to life it's not that much of a leap in logic. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8465	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:22:00 - [8] - Quote Doesn't make sense why the shield-tanking race wold have equipment to repair armor. +1 Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 5492	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:34:00 - [9] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Shields in New Eden are indeed energy based (unlike star trek's particle based) however also unlike star trek we're unable to convert energy into matter efficiently, In other words unless you have a way of turning triage nanites into quick energized capacitors without shorting then we can talk about hives that repair shields. There nanites that can repair armor, turn into bullets and grenades. Why wouldn't they be able to enter the energy system of a suit and turn into capacitors or turbocharge the suits innate shield regen systems. I am not even a fan of the idea (outside of another hive meant for the job) but come on in a world of nanites repairing damage to ship modules in real time or bring the dead back to life it's not that much of a leap in logic. Because it's hard to convert mass into energy. Never forget May 14, 2013: Beta 2.0
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1829	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:35:00 - [10] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Doesn't make sense why the shield-tanking race wold have equipment to repair armor. +1 It could be argued that it shores up a weakness, but on the other hand it certainly assists their adversaries. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol

Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1829	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:48:00 - [11] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Because it's hard to convert mass into energy. Now what if the kinetic energy of the nanite clusters of all hive types (going about their business of producing ammo, grenades, AND some armor) stimulated the oscillation of magnets within regenerator coils of the dropsuit itself. In this case, shield regeneration would be tied to the percentage of ammo or armor supplied with each cluster of construction swarms are working at a more frenzied rate. More movement, greater electric potential. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
jordy mack Ultramarine Corp 129	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:56:00 - [12] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Shields in New Eden are indeed energy based (unlike star trek's particle based) however also unlike star trek we're unable to convert energy into matter efficiently, In other words unless you have a way of turning triage nanites into quick energized capacitors without shorting then we can talk about hives that repair shields. Now there is shield transferring technology in New Eden that involves generating a shield field in a tunneled projector, matching frequencies then augmenting the energy projection so as long as one does not overcharge beyond containment at a smooth rate it be good to go (think of a high pressure bubble leaking into a lower pressure bubble). In the past one ship would have to share shields with another in order to provide coverage for both but putting both at risk. This method was away with during the civil war between caldari and gallente as technology improved. No probs, just gimme some more details on the nanites, I'll invent some mad gadgets. Could they not form little spheres , trap and contract to compress air,the generator bit coud just be stuck on the hive. But... surely there's some form of battery to run the containment field,which could be used at magically the exact same stats as the nanites. Any problems with this logic? Less QQ more PewPew
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1829	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:10:00 - [13] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: People rarely use repair tools, and armor repairs sacrifice to much for little benefit. Here's an idea. What if energizers increased the efficiency of armor repair modules? McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5991	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:12:00 - [14] - Quote Really people? 1.8 recharge rates: Caldari heavy: 30hp/s Caldari scout: 50hp/s Most likely caldari assault recharge rate: 40hp/s <--- Allotek Hive right there Stop QQ'ing, even with how shields are right now my Caldari Assault is a perfectly capable suit. You just need to stop thinking like an armor tanker and start thinking like a shield tanker. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1829	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:16:00 - [15] - Quote Alright Cat, what would you say to the idea of improving the efficiency of other modules while in the bubble such as armor repairers.? McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 468	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:20:00 - [16] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Shields in New Eden are indeed energy based (unlike star trek's particle based) however also unlike star trek we're unable to convert energy into matter efficiently, In other words unless you have a way of turning triage nanites into quick energized capacitors without shorting then we can talk about hives that repair shields. There nanites that can repair armor, turn into bullets and grenades. Why wouldn't they be able to enter the energy system of a suit and turn into capacitors or turbocharge the suits innate shield regen systems. I am not even a fan of the idea (outside of another hive meant for the job) but come on in a world of nanites repairing damage to ship modules in real time or bring the dead back to life it's not that much of a leap in logic. Because it's hard to convert mass into energy. I am doing it right now in my fireplace, and do so every time I eat. Granted we're not very good at it today, but this is the far flung future we're talking about here. Fine call it overheating the regen systems of the suit and the nanites repair the damage done, either way you can make it work. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5992	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:28:00 - [17] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Alright Cat, what would you say to the idea of improving the efficiency of other modules while in the bubble such as armor repairers.? I'm going to say that armor is triage reliant, shield's aren't. Having armor hives help shields would be overkill IMHO. However I would make a logi tool that "kickstarts" the shield's regen. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1829	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:30:00 - [18] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Alright Cat, what would you say to the idea of improving the efficiency of other modules while in the bubble such as armor repairers.? Or, if we want to the dive more into the idea of energizing modules, the boosted efficiency stats of modules (damage mods, self repairers, profile dampeners) would last as long as the 'stamina' of the resistance bar which is constantly draining proportional to the shield amount, cpu, and pg of the suit. The higher these are the faster your energizer stamina decreases, the lower those stats are the slower it drains. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4144	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:30:00 - [19] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Doesn't make sense why the shield-tanking race wold have equipment to repair armor. +1 Because they still have a small amount of armor underneath their suit. I always thought Nanohives that rep'd were made ideally for Caldari units that got a little damaged after their shields depleted. Even if you're a shield race you don't want to instantly die after your shields get depleted. The Nanohive does just that, on paper. In reality, instead of being ideal for the Caldari repairing in small amounts (which is actually a considerable amount if you're a Caldari with only 150 armor) You get a bunch spammed in an area to repair a +500 armor suit back in a few seconds. Instead the Nanohoves might be better if they worked similarly to the Nanite Injector but unlike Nanite injector they should repair armor up to a set amount instead of a percentage. i.e 125 hp instead of 80%. This would probably keep armor tankers away from Abusing Nanohives outside of their intended race while still greatly benefiting the Caldari...and Minmatar if the suit is Shield Based.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1829	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:33:00 - [20] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: Alright Cat, what would you say to the idea of improving the efficiency of other modules while in the bubble such as armor repairers.? I'm going to say that armor is triage reliant, shield's aren't. Having armor hives help shields would be overkill IMHO. However I would make a logi tool that "kickstarts" the shield's regen. I was talking about enhancing the properties of modules. Not armor repair specifically. A person would need to have armor repair modules applied to receive any bonus. True a careful balance is needed. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5995	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:42:00 - [21] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Doesn't make sense why the shield-tanking race wold have equipment to repair armor. +1 Because they still have a small amount of armor underneath their suit. I always thought Nanohives that rep'd were made ideally for Caldari units that got a little damaged after their shields depleted. Even if you're a shield race you don't want to instantly die after your shields get depleted. The Nanohive does just that, on paper. In reality, instead of being ideal for the Caldari repairing in small amounts (which is actually a considerable amount if you're a Caldari with only 150 armor) You get a bunch spammed in an area to repair a +500 armor suit back in a few seconds. Instead the Nanohoves might be better if they worked similarly to the Nanite Injector but unlike Nanite injector they should repair armor up to a set amount instead of a percentage. i.e 125 hp instead of 80%. This would probably keep armor tankers away from Abusing Nanohives outside of their intended race while still greatly benefiting the Caldari...and Minmatar if the suit is Shield Based. Actually Kirk, the triage hives aren't made by Caldari. Allotek is a Gallente company. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1829	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:44:00 - [22] - Quote Good call. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5995	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:46:00 - [23] - Quote Honestly Jadek, I never had a triage hive debate as calm and good as with you. You are put in my "Not stupid" list Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1829	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:48:00 - [24] - Quote How many triage hive debates do you have? McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5995	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:49:00 - [25] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: How many triage hive debates do you have? It's one of the main "Armor is OP" arguments, and I don't believe that. So lots. I just don't feel that armor is OP, I use my Caldari Assault, and unless the Gallente assault sucks ass, shields seem up to par. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4144	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:52:00 - [26] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Doesn't make sense why the shield-tanking race wold have equipment to repair armor. +1 Because they still have a small amount of armor underneath their suit. I always thought Nanohives that rep'd were made ideally for Caldari units that got a little damaged after their shields depleted. Even if you're a shield race you don't want to instantly die after your shields get depleted. The Nanohive does just that, on paper. In reality, instead of being ideal for the Caldari repairing in small amounts (which is actually a considerable amount if you're a Caldari with only 150 armor) You get a bunch spammed in an area to repair a +500 armor suit back in a few seconds. Instead the Nanohoves might be better if they worked similarly to the Nanite Injector but unlike Nanite injector they should repair armor up to a set amount instead of a percentage. i.e 125 hp instead of 80%. This would probably keep armor tankers away from Abusing Nanohives outside of their intended race while still greatly benefiting the Caldari...and Minmatar if the suit is Shield Based. Actually Kirk, the triage hives aren't made by Caldari. Allotek is a Gallente company. [/Facepalm] Knock Knock, Ishukone Nanohive? Allotek is the one Company that makes a certain Nanohive out of all of the Nanohives. Similarly to how the Minmatar make the Advanced Nanite injector but it's heavily assumed to be Caldari based tech. And how we had one Allotek Uplink out of all the Amarr ones (before the market switched them all to Allotek for some reason) As well as the Ishukone Sub-machine gun. A Caldari Company that manufactured a weapon based on Minmatar tech. Don't try to teach me at lore, there are only a few that know more than me about New Eden on these forums and you're not one of them.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12614	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:53:00 - [27] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Doesn't make sense why the shield-tanking race wold have equipment to repair armor. +1 Because they still have a small amount of armor underneath their suit. I always thought Nanohives that rep'd were made ideally for Caldari units that got a little damaged after their shields depleted. Even if you're a shield race you don't want to instantly die after your shields get depleted. The Nanohive does just that, on paper. In reality, instead of being ideal for the Caldari repairing in small amounts (which is actually a considerable amount if you're a Caldari with only 150 armor) You get a bunch spammed in an area to repair a +500 armor suit back in a few seconds. Instead the Nanohoves might be better if they worked similarly to the Nanite Injector but unlike Nanite injector they should repair armor up to a set amount instead of a percentage. i.e 125 hp instead of 80%. This would probably keep armor tankers away from Abusing Nanohives outside of their intended race while still greatly benefiting the Caldari...and Minmatar if the suit is Shield Based. Actually Kirk, the triage hives aren't made by Caldari. Allotek is a Gallente company. Ishkone is Caldari though CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1831	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:54:00 - [28] - Quote But ermagard ARMOR IS OP No, I will conceded Shields are in a very good position compared to armor with regards to current weapon damage types and calculations. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1831	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:56:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ishkone is Caldari though So is Wiyrkomi. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
Auld Syne 156	Posted - 2014.01.26 06:56:00 - [30] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Don't try to teach me at lore, there are only a few that know more than me about New Eden on these forums and you're not one of them. That hurt and it wasn't even directed at me



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