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OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2014.01.26 01:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Then shouldn't they require the same number of people to run their tanks? I mean... If you are taking 3 people's attention away from focusing on winning the match just to deal with you, shouldn't you require the same number of people to distract them?
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OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.01.26 01:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote:ccp should make it so the driver can only use the front turret, and a gunner can use the large turret
Boom. Tanker Logic. Wait a minute.... I know another alt of Long Evity..... and he's.... WAIT A MINUTE..... .......no.... it couldn't be... WAIT A MINUTE....
Are you.... a fan of anime.....? |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2014.01.26 01:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:We plug ourselves into the HAV, so we can control many of the functions at the same time. Degraging ourselves to mortal ways of life is silly. no. Pointless blanket excuse that means nothing. Actual, logical, gameplay balance response requested. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2014.01.26 01:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:so more then a year now and people still ask this question? use the search function. More than a year now, and tankers still think it should take half a squad to kill them playing solo. Also, the search function doesn't yield any real argument that negates this statement. If you believe otherwise, link please. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2014.01.26 01:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:OverIord Ulath wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:We plug ourselves into the HAV, so we can control many of the functions at the same time. Degraging ourselves to mortal ways of life is silly. no. Pointless blanket excuse that means nothing. Actual, logical, gameplay balance response requested. actual responces have been givin 100 times over in the thousands of other threads started with the same title as yours, use the search function
OverIord Ulath wrote:..... Also, the search function doesn't yield any real argument that negates this statement. If you believe otherwise, link please. Shouldn't be hard for you to link then then, eh? |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2014.01.26 02:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:OverIord Ulath wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote:ccp should make it so the driver can only use the front turret, and a gunner can use the large turret
Boom. Tanker Logic. Wait a minute.... I know another alt of Long Evity..... and he's.... WAIT A MINUTE..... .......no.... it couldn't be... WAIT A MINUTE.... Are you.... a fan of anime.....? I love me some Bleach, Naruto and FullMetal Alchemist You need to watch some Mirai Nikki, Elfenlied, or Tasogare Otome x Amnesia (I know that one doesn't fit with the super-morbid theme of the other 2). None of that **** that gets on american tv. Gintama ftw |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2014.01.26 02:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
/back on topic
Still waiting on that link to a proper counter argument Ghosty. Aaaaaaany day now. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2014.01.26 02:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Tanks can be taken down by a single AV person.
This thread is just silly. Tanks CAN be taken down by a single AV person. If that tanker is either stupid, doesn't have skill, hasn't specced into tanks, doesn't know tank strategy, doesn't have situational awareness or if the AV player is lucky. Or some combination thereof.
A properly fitted tank run by a proper tanker who knows what he is doing is not going to be dropped by a single AV player unless that AV player is a prof. 5 forge gunner running 2 damage mods on a proto forge gun sitting on a roof with nanohives.
I found out just today that someone with stacked repps on a Madrugar (no hardners, just repps) can out-repp 3 swarms from a prof. 5 swarm launcher with 3 complex damage mods started off with one packed EXO-AV grenade. That was an unpleasant surprise. I sat behind the hill he had me pinned behind until my hive ran dry, then he gunned me down while I tried to make it to a supply depot. DavidBerkowitz (friend of mine from L.O.T.I.S.) has his Madrugar set up with over 300 armor repps per second, and since you can only fire off a volley every 4 seconds or so, even if you don't include the travel time of the swarms, you have already repped over 1200 armor before the next volley hits.
And if we apply this math:
Berserker007 wrote:[clipped] If you look at the damage math (and my attempt to do so); look at a bare bone Militia Soma: has 1200 shield, 4000 armor
Current proto SL damage (using my skills/stats as base): 6x220= 1320 (per volley be4 skills/mods) x 1.12 = 1478 (w. prof level) x 1.24 = 1833 (w/ 3 complex damage mods) x .2 = 366 ..... 1833-366 = 1467 1st shot against shield
So right there, your ONE volley of Proto SL w/ all those mods, just BARELY breaks they shield of a militia no items/skilled tank. [clipped]
[From this thread]
We see that even if there is no flight time between when you fire and when the missiles connect, meaning firing from POINT BLANK RANGE, you are repairing at least half of your armor before the swarms can even connect again.
Yeah... one guy's totally got this under control.... |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2014.01.26 03:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:OverIord Ulath wrote:
A properly fitted tank run by a proper tanker who knows what he is doing is not going to be dropped by a single AV player unless that AV player is a prof. 5 forge gunner running 2 damage mods on a proto forge gun sitting on a roof with nanohives.
Beyond the obvious problems with tanks, this particular fit has an interesting place and it needs a little attention. That type of fit has no hope against even a MLT rail on a sica. It has literally no defense for alpha spikes. What it does have is a complete gearing towards surviving waves of AV thrown haphazardly while it works a blaster. Is it right that such a fit is possible? Similarly, should a shield tanker be able to stack triple hardeners with an armor hardener and a heavy armor repair module? The likely answer is no, and that the modules still need to be adjusted. That type of fit can also be ultrakilled by any combo of mines, or AV nades and a hive. Or a combo strike of AV nades and a forge shot to the ass. With all that said, that is only one type of fit, and it is easily destroyed by any rail, including installations, which will make short which of that type of fit. Most other fits are solo material for AV players, and so the thread is still overly broad without need. A very reasonable response, but the point of the thread isn't even really a qualm against the different tank fits that are not soloable, or even against all tankers and their views on tanks. It's against the mindset that many tankers have across the various tank balance threads that because of their SP investment and fit costs compared to infantry, they feel that they should not be soloable by infantry. A specific jab at a specific group of people.
I do appreciate your reasonable responses to valid issues brought up here, however it's a philosophy of game balance that I am disputing in this thread, not the current state of affairs in-game. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2014.01.26 03:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Joel II X wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:We plug ourselves into the HAV, so we can control many of the functions at the same time. Degraging ourselves to mortal ways of life is silly. no. You know what's also silly? Needing Proto AV to destroy Militia HAV's. Do we have to do this again? Not if you don't back away. Tanks are broken. Everyone knows this. I've already given reasonable suguestions. This is unreasonable. My first point makes this make no sense lore wise, as we're not mortals, and I have to skill into it, so why do I let a bluedot use it? The point in this thread is not to say that tankers should require multiple people to run their tanks, it is to say that it is ridiculous to expect to be able to draw 3+ people away from focusing on a match just to deal with your sorry ass just because you decided to take a different skill tree than they did. |
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OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2014.01.26 03:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Hmm, in EVE a battleship gets about five or so big guns vs. a little frigate with maybe three little bitty guns.
No, it's working as intended.
DUST and EVE are the same in that CCP designs them and they base their designs on a certain mentality that is consistent between the two games.
One person, one character (one vehicle). Just because you want to team up with other infantry doesn't mean I have to suffer dealing with coordinating with other people. You could run solo and it'd be the same GÇô one person, one character. I know this has been said before billions of times, but it bears repeating I suppose.
EVE =/= DUST
You cannot balance a FPS game based on a space ship game. You cannot balance a 16v16 game on a fleet v fleet game. You cannot balance a console lobby shooter where you actively have to earn SP off of a PC MMO space opera where you can let the game sit for months and not miss a beat on your SP accumulation. You cannot balance a game that is based on using cover, strafing, aiming and "gungame" on a game that is based on whatever the hell you use to kill people with in a space MMO.
Therefore, you cannot base tank v infantry balance on titan v frigate balance. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2014.01.26 03:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote:ccp should make it so the driver can only use the front turret, and a gunner can use the large turret
Boom. Tanker Logic. No tanker logic is as follows- I have a tank so because its name is tank, I should be invincible. No, that's sad little scrub logic. See, you see me saying that you're bad when you want to solo vehicles easily, but your mind sees me saying that I should be invincible. No, I see you saying you should be invincible when I see you saying tanks are balanced after I fire off 12 volleys of prof. 5 swarms and the tank is still sitting there smiling at me. However, you've not (that I've seen) said that tanks are balanced, so that doesn't apply to you. Yet. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2014.01.26 16:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:More tank related QQ. Starting to get old.
As long as the tank costs more than whatever dropsuit the other guy is using then they shouldn't be "equal". The tank should be superior. If you think the premise of this thread is QQ, then you either didn't read through the thread or you have horrific reading comprehension. Either way, you do not know that of which you speak. So please waste your time elsewhere, preferably somewhere that you actually understand what is going on. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2014.01.26 16:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:Harpyja wrote:I wish my standard suit can take on a sentinel solo I hate how it takes teamwork or tactics to bring down those fatties Seriously, this is how stupid you all sound. Use one of the big Four-Rifles, have the proficiency at 3, stack complex damage mods, and if possible rake the head (it's a large target and we are stupidly slow). Collect profit. Or with one buddy focus fire and melt the Fatty with center of mass shots. Do it with three or more to insta-gib him. Just an FYI 1.8 isn't going to change that. Just give people more options for a style of play. Killing Heavies is just as easy as killing unhardened vehicles with any Large Rail. Easier in most cases since. Now apply this to AV. Stack some complex damage mods, prof 3 on forge guns with an IAFG, and shoot the rear of the tank. Profit. Or you can get a friend, where both of you are using breach instead, and instapop that unhardened tank before it can do anything.
1. Getting behind a tank in a heavy suit requires either a really stupid tanker, luck or teamwork.
2. No one should have to specc into one type of fit (be that tank, DS, dropsuit, what-have-you) in order to take out something else. Any fit (or hull) should be vulnerable to any fit (or hull) if the proper weapons are used.
Harpyja wrote:R F Gyro wrote:All the comparisons with Eve are essentially irrelevant from a gameplay perspective for one very simple reason.
Eve doesn't have a cap of 16 players per side. Dust has an artificial cap on team side. EVE has a real cap on fleet size. You only get as many people that show up. If 10 show up, you're limited to 10. If 500 show up, you're limited to 500. I don't see EVE pilots QQing when their fleet is destroyed 3:1. I don't see them QQing when the enemy fleet drops supercapitals and destroys all of their capitals because they didn't bring any supercapitals themselves. I find Dust and EVE similar. If you don't have sufficient AV but the enemy brought in tanks, then you should get screwed. This whole "balance on a 1v1 basis" is crap. You don't see Eve pilots complaining because their space based MMO was built around the idea of uneven odds. Since CCP made Eve, it could determine those standards. However, CCP didn't invent lobby shooters or FPS games or even any of the concepts behind them, they basically followed the template that other shooters had left behind while adding their own flavor, lore and art style. That way, the already solidly established FPS playerbase would be able to transition here.
For... well... probably not the last time.... GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. You can supply lore, ideas, interaction, even some physics between two different games of two different genres, but you cannot balance them in the same way. It makes no sense to even attempt to balance them based on the same ideals, and attempting to do so is futile. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2014.01.26 16:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:OverIord Ulath wrote:Then shouldn't they require the same number of people to run their tanks? I mean... If you are taking 3 people's attention away from focusing on winning the match just to deal with you, shouldn't you require the same number of people to distract them? In my tank i have 2 drones working below decks for the reloading of turrets and activating modules, other than that its me doing all the work You cant prove otherwise As long as they count towards the total number of people allowed on your team, I'm fine with that. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2014.01.26 16:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:And this thread has become the reason why you dont ask this question on the forums, but like the hundred or so threads that came before it someone will simply refuse to use the search function and start this up all over again Dunno why you keep posting, you are being ignored because YOU refuse to use that search function you are so excited about and link me to one good solid reason that makes sense in a lobby shooter why if it takes 3 infantry to kill a vehicle, it should still only take 1 person to drive said vehicle. Until you do that, consider yourself invisible. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2014.01.26 16:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:OverIord Ulath wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:We plug ourselves into the HAV, so we can control many of the functions at the same time. Degraging ourselves to mortal ways of life is silly. no. Pointless blanket excuse that means nothing. Actual, logical, gameplay balance response requested. Actually lorewise he's correct as far as I know. Capsuleers can control ships mostly by themselves by inking them together. Should be a very similar thing going on in DUST. The thing I wish they had in this game is a animation, or at least some time to get into, and out of vehicles instead of this instant spawn in/spawn out crap. I was not referring to the lack of lore accuracy, I was referring to lore being a blanket excuse for broken mechanics. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
101
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Posted - 2014.01.27 19:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Self perpetuating thread... wow... I pretty much leave it alone for 3 days and I go from 0 likes to 101 and the thread fills itself... Damn..... I'm a forum NINJA! |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
107
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Posted - 2014.01.28 02:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:Atiim wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:In my tank i have 2 drones working blow decks for the reloading of turrets and activating modules, other than that its me doing all the work
You cant prove otherwise With no DEV confirmation you can't even prove yourself correct. Even if, these alleged drones are automated and their functions are still managed by 1 player, so that argument is both incorrect and irrelevant. Haha try this... No. There are no drones and things are not as you claim. You cannot prove otherwise, thus you are wrong by your own logic. Give it up, Atiim, you can't argue with someone who thinks that a magical teapot in the asteroid belt is worth believing in just because it cannot be proven to not exist. Lore You cant prove otherwise But this is the future where a pod pilot in EVE can use his ship with a skeleton crew, without the pod pilot it would take a full crew In DUST with his pilot suit it only takes 1, the other 2 gunners offer nothing to the working of the tank, they dont increase its HP or its resistance or its speed etc *checks skill tree and market place*
Nope, no pilot suit. Take your babbling elsewhere please. |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
113
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Posted - 2014.01.28 21:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:In my tank i have 2 drones working blow decks for the reloading of turrets and activating modules, other than that its me doing all the work
You cant prove otherwise
Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Lore
You cant prove otherwise
But this is the future where a pod pilot in EVE can use his ship with a skeleton crew, without the pod pilot it would take a full crew
In DUST with his pilot suit it only takes 1, the other 2 gunners offer nothing to the working of the tank, they dont increase its HP or its resistance or its speed etc
Takahiro Kashuken wrote: *checks market place*
Pilot suit tab is under light frame in the dropsuit section
Only a matter of time
Not in game = Provably undo-able.
Provably undo-able = Provably false.
Provably false = I CAN prove otherwise. |
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OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
133
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Posted - 2014.04.27 04:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Awwww... my self perpetuating thread finally went ka-put! Well.... Since general discussions is completely devoid of anything interesting....
CoLeRy DoLeRy DiLlErY DrEaD! I pErFoRm NeCrOmAnCy On ThIs ThReAd! |
OverIord Ulath
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
140
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Posted - 2014.04.27 05:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:I don'teven low why I get on the forums anymore, its the 8 same posts every couple days..... Technically this is the same thread you may have read back in January. I just brought it back from the dead because the forums are boring right now.
Also because all but like 4 of my likes came from this thread, and this thread tends to run itself if I step away for a few days.
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