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If tankers insist that it should take 2+ ppl to kill them....

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Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1657	Posted - 2014.01.26 12:07:00 - [1] - Quote Ok so we can see arguments from both sides quite well here, sonhere I go Tankers should be able to use their tank by thdm selves because > Tankerx invested their time and money < doesn't mean they should own everything on the field Tankers should be capable of sponging as significant amount of damage, but still be frightened of Infantry AV. So long as tanks are a one man operation, it should take no more than one man o equal skill to active suppressa tank with equal tier AV. (Suppress does not necessarily mean destroy). Tanks should be blowing up about 30% as often as infantry and priced accordingly. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1657	Posted - 2014.01.26 12:43:00 - [2] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ok so we can see arguments from both sides quite well here, sonhere I go Tankers should be able to use their tank by thdm selves because > Tankerx invested their time and money < doesn't mean they should own everything on the field Tankers should be capable of sponging as significant amount of damage, but still be frightened of Infantry AV. So long as tanks are a one man operation, it should take no more than one man o equal skill to active suppressa tank with equal tier AV. (Suppress does not necessarily mean destroy). Tanks should be blowing up about 30% as often as infantry and priced accordingly. the only reason this isn't happening right now is that their is no incentive to go tank hunting, going bearly break even with ** for WP, is a **** reward for playing AV. If ccp would return WP for damage you would see a lot more dedicated AV on the feild making those tanks irrelivent for infantry. Yes adding back WP for damage would be a big step, but it wouldn't be the be all and end all. Tankers aren't scared of AV anymore, when Im in a tank Im not scared, tne only time AV has got me is when Ive tried to fit a HAV through a LAV sized hole. Ive seen tanks stop slaughtering Infantry to go and kill the swarm launcher, they charge directly into AV fire because they know they can. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1657	Posted - 2014.01.26 12:47:00 - [3] - Quote Cooper Eudaemon wrote: What if you had to run a Pilot dropsuit to drive/fly a vehicle? Do you guys think that would balance things? You'd have to skill into the suit--to use advanced or prototype weapons or modules, you'd have to have an advanced or prototype suit. And it'd be a light suit, so you'd be paper thin outside of your vehicle. There could even be modules and equipment specific to the pilot suit, to provide a further ISK/SP sink. Provided their is a mlt variant, I see no prolem with HAV's or HAAV's , MAV's or MAAV'S requiring a pilot suit to run. Light vehicle shouldn't need them otherwise you are unfairly stopping the use of personal transport. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1657	Posted - 2014.01.26 15:45:00 - [4] - Quote Harpyja wrote: R F Gyro wrote: All the comparisons with Eve are essentially irrelevant from a gameplay perspective for one very simple reason. Eve doesn't have a cap of 16 players per side. Dust has an artificial cap on team side. EVE has a real cap on fleet size. You only get as many people that show up. If 10 show up, you're limited to 10. If 500 show up, you're limited to 500. I don't see EVE pilots QQing when their fleet is destroyed 3:1. I don't see them QQing when the enemy fleet drops supercapitals and destroys all of their capitals because they didn't bring any supercapitals themselves. I find Dust and EVE similar. If you don't have sufficient AV but the enemy brought in tanks, then you should get screwed. This whole "balance on a 1v1 basis" is crap. The reason EvE pilots don't QQ is because if you didn't bring the 200 frigates needed to take down a single captial, you make sure you do next time. But in dust if you didn't bring the 18 AV to a 16v16 match you need to bring down the 6 tanks you brought, that's not your fault. Until the game has a "real cap" on force strength anything where 1 unit has a higher force strength than another produces linear escalation battles. Which are no fun. In EvE if you don't need to a super captial to beet a super capital, because if you really want that win you can bring enough frigates to just swamp the enemy. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1663	Posted - 2014.01.26 16:47:00 - [5] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Harpyja wrote: R F Gyro wrote: All the comparisons with Eve are essentially irrelevant from a gameplay perspective for one very simple reason. Eve doesn't have a cap of 16 players per side. Dust has an artificial cap on team side. EVE has a real cap on fleet size. You only get as many people that show up. If 10 show up, you're limited to 10. If 500 show up, you're limited to 500. I don't see EVE pilots QQing when their fleet is destroyed 3:1. I don't see them QQing when the enemy fleet drops supercapitals and destroys all of their capitals because they didn't bring any supercapitals themselves. I find Dust and EVE similar. If you don't have sufficient AV but the enemy brought in tanks, then you should get screwed. This whole "balance on a 1v1 basis" is crap. The reason EvE pilots don't QQ is because if you didn't bring the 200 frigates needed to take down a single captial, you make sure you do next time. But in dust if you didn't bring the 18 AV to a 16v16 match you need to bring down the 6 tanks you brought, that's not your fault. Until the game has a "real cap" on force strength anything where 1 unit has a higher force strength than another produces linear escalation battles. Which are no fun. In EvE if you don't need to a super captial to beet a super capital, because if you really want that win you can bring enough frigates to just swamp the enemy. It's still all the same. If you were the only AV in one match, then you'll ask a friend to join you next. Also, 18 AV for 6 tanks is flawed. Who ever told you we were asking for three unique AV per individual tank? Even if there are 6 tanks, just get three AV and concentrate fire on one tank. Then continue with the rest. Nobody told you that you had to destroy them all at once. You shouldn't have to have more than half of a squad dedicated to AV, regardless of how many vehicles are out there. Three people coordinating with breach forge guns will instapop any unhardened tank and send hardened tanks running for the redline. The latter currently isn't rewarding, but should be with WP for damage dealt. "But tanks don't need teamwork!" Neither do solo ratting battleships in null sec in EVE. But it does take either some very fancy skill to solo one with a frigate, or a small gang of frigates cooperating and using teamwork to bring down said battleship. Also, a tank without a squad dies rather easily. Without a squad to provide intel on enemy tanks and AV, you are more likely to get ambushed from behind while your hardeners aren't running. If 6 tanks all turn up together I would need 18 AV to take out said tanks, with 3 AV I would be incapable of destroying tanks at rate fast enough to fend them off as is AV job. Its simple math if 1 HAV = 3 AV and 1AV = 1/2 AI then who ever fields the most tanks wins. Its linear escalation, just the Act of changing into an AV fit to counter of tank lowers my teams force strength. This can be clearly evidenced when a team can win with 6 tanks and a few mlt scouts. Because tanks have a force strength greater than 1, therfore unless you deploy a tank you will be overwhelmed. Nyan San have seen this, What thenFrench have seen this, Ultimate Pwnage Servicd have seen this, every corp of old who people complained at for running proto brick tanked gallante logis now also run tanks. Because mathematically you can win with 6 tanks. 1 team without 6 tanks = 16 1 team with 6 tanks = 22 1 team without 6 tanks and 3AV = 13 22 > 13 Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1664	Posted - 2014.01.26 17:16:00 - [6] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I din't think any of the halfway decent tankers wanted you to dedicate a squad to kill 1 tank... We just wanted a fair fight. In 1.3-1.6 the fight was 'my wyrrkomi swarm is a 2 shot kill, and if 1.5 seconds is too long, i throw 1 Lai dai AV nade!' Even against 2 hardeners, 1 max skill rep going, AND a polycrystalline plate. In 1.6 it took a MINIMUM of 5 mil to outrep a single militia swarm for 20 seconds. Does this NOT seem flawed to you? What us REAL tankers wanted was for 1 Aver to be a THREAT, but not a FUCKINGG IWIN BUTTON +200 WP. That exactly what halfway decent AV wants to, we don't just wanna go, oh look a tank, boom. We want, sht tank, get the AV guy. Hold of that tank as long as you can, Ill call in the cavalry. we want comamders to go GET THAT TANK THE HELL OFF MY MEN not HEY JOE 200 WP THERE IF YOU WANT IT not TANK, DROP WEAPONS LADS, SUICIDING WILL BE LESS PAINFUL Tanks 514* I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1674	Posted - 2014.01.27 00:57:00 - [7] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Cooper Eudaemon wrote: What if you had to run a Pilot dropsuit to drive/fly a vehicle? Do you guys think that would balance things? You'd have to skill into the suit--to use advanced or prototype weapons or modules, you'd have to have an advanced or prototype suit. And it'd be a light suit, so you'd be paper thin outside of your vehicle. There could even be modules and equipment specific to the pilot suit, to provide a further ISK/SP sink. Provided their is a mlt variant, I see no prolem with HAV's or HAAV's , MAV's or MAAV'S requiring a pilot suit to run. Light vehicle shouldn't need them otherwise you are unfairly stopping the use of personal transport. It's a tech 2 suit, so no, there wouldn't be a MLT version. All our current suits are T2, or are you referring to specalization in skill tree. Either then no, if their is not a mlt variant of a suit then it shouldn't be necessary to pilot a vehicle. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1676	Posted - 2014.01.27 01:15:00 - [8] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Aizen Intiki wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Cooper Eudaemon wrote: What if you had to run a Pilot dropsuit to drive/fly a vehicle? Do you guys think that would balance things? You'd have to skill into the suit--to use advanced or prototype weapons or modules, you'd have to have an advanced or prototype suit. And it'd be a light suit, so you'd be paper thin outside of your vehicle. There could even be modules and equipment specific to the pilot suit, to provide a further ISK/SP sink. Provided their is a mlt variant, I see no prolem with HAV's or HAAV's , MAV's or MAAV'S requiring a pilot suit to run. Light vehicle shouldn't need them otherwise you are unfairly stopping the use of personal transport. It's a tech 2 suit, so no, there wouldn't be a MLT version. All our current suits are T2, or are you referring to specalization in skill tree. Either then no, if their is not a mlt variant of a suit then it shouldn't be necessary to pilot a vehicle. No they are not. Light, Medium, Heavy frames, and every vehicle but the ADS is tech 1. EDIT: IT shouldn't be. It should simply make it better, depending on how you fit it. Also, once it comes out, vehicles should be nerfed. MLT vehicles needs to be nerfed now. No you are kistaken all suits are Tier 2, their used to be a previous iteration of suits that diddn't havethe same player model. Its the same with weapons there used to be a T1 Assault Rifle with an underslung grenade launcher, check the old footage. T3 weapons are rumoured to have hundreds off attachments and configurations. You are definitely thinking of pilot suits being up a skill tree level (called a specilization) Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

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