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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
242
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Posted - 2014.01.25 22:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just make shields easier to fit, have more hp, and cause the difference that STD and ADV plates have from PRO plates to be equal to the difference STD and ADV shields have from PRO shields, keeping the PRO armor plate as it is.
Shields should be super easy to fit pg wise, but difficult to fit cpu wise, however that is not the case, as they currently cost second most cpu of any module in the game (damage mods are #1), and still a ludicrous pg cost that is only one less than armor plates. It just doesn't make sense
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
242
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Posted - 2014.01.25 22:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:OverIord Ulath wrote:The reason armor tanking became way better than shield tanking is because they both buffed the armor-per-plate and gave a reduction to the speed penalty. On top of that, there were very few options for anti-armor weapons. One was a sidearm, one was a heavy-only weapon, and one was a situational support weapon. Now that two mainline anti-armor guns are around (RR and CR) armor tanking is closer to being balanced with shields, but it's still not quite there yet. Perhaps we shouldn't return it to it's old values (3,5,10), but we should increase the penalty to the point that shield suits are adverse to running them but the armor suits still benefit from them. I suppose that means putting them at around 2,4 and 8. The basic plate is in a great spot since new players get it first and need as much of a bang for their figurative buck as they can get. 4 is more than the enhanced penalty currently is, but still isn't as bad as it used to be. 8 Seems fair for the complex, however I think that the complex needs another 10~20 HP on it so that it's worth using. The point isn't to gimp the plates after all, it's to balance them.
Just to be clear, we need a jewelers mallet here CCP, not a sledge. What if we increased the penalty of armor yatti yatti but we also gave shield extenders an equally detrimental penalty such as a speed loss. For the record you may say speed tanking is dead but if you can't out strafe aim aassist which isn't even as magnetic as it used to be then you got problems. Anyways what if we made shields increase your delay so much that it wasn't as self repairing as it used to. But to balance it we made a repair tool for it, because you know people are oh so eager to help. That seems fair don't you think?
No, because it takes away the shields niche of high regen, and low hp, good for lone wolfing. The problem is armor is currently 2-4 times as much hp as shields, have better sources of regeneration, very low penalty and high hp at basic and adv level, cost a lot less than shields do, and open up high slots for damage mods. Also, the argument that biotics and shields is better than plates and damage mods is made null by the fact that shield tankers have low pg, and biotic modules require the most pg, and aim assist defeats strafing unless the kill is made in under 1 second, so that the enemy doesn't have time to get his reticule near you
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
242
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Posted - 2014.01.25 22:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:OverIord Ulath wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:So then all armor tanking options would either be useless or extremely prohibitive that sounds like a great idea. No less so than shield extenders. It would mean you actually have serious drawbacks to armor like you already do with shields. But of course NOBODY wants armor to be balanced with shields.... well..... at least not the armor tankers.  What are the drawbacks to shields? Shield pros: Self repairing More resistant to damage No speed loss An insignificant penalty Is not your life line Shield cons: shield delay A maximum of 35% HP difference between shield and armor Flux grenades (rarely used) Shield delay can be reduced with your low slots That HP difference is only in fully stacked shields vs fully stacked armor but in reality an omni tanked shield suit has more HP than an omni tanked armor suit Flux grenades are rarely used but shield tanks love them as a con. Shields are more resistant to damage than armor due to there being more weapons to kill armor than shields and the overall damage profiles being shifted to kill armor.
1. true, they are. however, armor repairs better than shields and is not interrupted if the person is sitting on a hive, or has logo support
2. That is false. They are not and this is a misconception. The are 10% more resistant to rail and combat rifles, but thats it.
3. Yes, there is no speed penalty, but they do have a shield depleted recharge delay penalty which is really significant is you get shot because it takes very few shots to fully deplete your shield, and then you must hunker down behind cover for a LONG time, whereas an armor tanker could just put down a hive once his shields started getting hit, and be invincible.
4. see above
5. They are your lifeline unless you are a damage stacking gallente or amarr with armor in the lows.
cons
1. This makes armor repairing in some cases even more effective than shield repairing because there is no delay
2. This statement is blatantly false. a basic extender=22 hp, a basic plate=85 hp which is about 4 times as much as the extender, for almost no penalty whatsoever for the armor tanker. At proto level, a plate is still more than twice as much hp as an extender.
3. Flux grenades are not rarely used like shield tanking is rarely used, they are rarely used like an assault rifle is rarely used.
You are blatantly wrong in all of your points, and i don't understand your attempt to misinform anyone who reads this of the problems with shields currently.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
248
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Posted - 2014.01.26 01:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:OverIord Ulath wrote:The reason armor tanking became way better than shield tanking is because they both buffed the armor-per-plate and gave a reduction to the speed penalty. On top of that, there were very few options for anti-armor weapons. One was a sidearm, one was a heavy-only weapon, and one was a situational support weapon. Now that two mainline anti-armor guns are around (RR and CR) armor tanking is closer to being balanced with shields, but it's still not quite there yet. Perhaps we shouldn't return it to it's old values (3,5,10), but we should increase the penalty to the point that shield suits are adverse to running them but the armor suits still benefit from them. I suppose that means putting them at around 2,4 and 8. The basic plate is in a great spot since new players get it first and need as much of a bang for their figurative buck as they can get. 4 is more than the enhanced penalty currently is, but still isn't as bad as it used to be. 8 Seems fair for the complex, however I think that the complex needs another 10~20 HP on it so that it's worth using. The point isn't to gimp the plates after all, it's to balance them.
Just to be clear, we need a jewelers mallet here CCP, not a sledge. What if we increased the penalty of armor yatti yatti but we also gave shield extenders an equally detrimental penalty such as a speed loss. For the record you may say speed tanking is dead but if you can't out strafe aim aassist which isn't even as magnetic as it used to be then you got problems. Anyways what if we made shields increase your delay so much that it wasn't as self repairing as it used to. But to balance it we made a repair tool for it, because you know people are oh so eager to help. That seems fair don't you think? No, because it takes away the shields niche of high regen, and low hp, good for lone wolfing. The problem is armor is currently 2-4 times as much hp as shields, have better sources of regeneration, very low penalty and high hp at basic and adv level, cost a lot less than shields do, and open up high slots for damage mods. Also, the argument that biotics and shields is better than plates and damage mods is made null by the fact that shield tankers have low pg, and biotic modules require the most pg, and aim assist defeats strafing unless the kill is made in under 1 second, so that the enemy doesn't have time to get his reticule near you No like I said a full stacked shield suit vs an armor suit only he 35% less HE and both omni tanked the shield suit actually has more hp
We are comparing modules, not suits. Currently, armor modules are 2-4x as effective as shield mods, with almost no penalty except at proto level.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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