DUST Search - Increase Isk Payout

NoxMort3m wrote:

The Black Jackal wrote:

NoxMort3m wrote:

The Black Jackal wrote:

VikingKong iBUN wrote:

+1
more isk would certainly be a good incentive to try and win games
currently i dont care if i win or lose in a pub match, but if i use a good suit and actually try to win i'll only end up losing isk - which defies the point of winning

And giving out more ISK will actually make this issue worse.

As I explained above, Proto Stomping is not supposed to be profitable, and the public arena is really the only place for Newer Players to go. Which means in public matches you have a range of newer, less geared people (discounting poor matchmaking decisions in whatever form there are). They can't do anything with this ISK to bring themselves to parity with Prototype-Level Players.

However, if you attack the high-geared players ISK faucets, (lowering income) AND give them something besides gear to spend ISK on, then you will bring them down closer to parity as they can't run proto in public matches as long.

Don't step on the little guys to make sure you big guys can turn a profit stomping them.

your so hung up on he idea of proto gear making a profit you dont realize that in any match where your fighting a good team you cant even make a profit with advanced grar

That is not a matter of ISK payouts then is it? It's a matter of A) Matchmaking, and b) teamwork. A coordinated team, even in STD gear, will generally trump a team of random blueberries, even if they run Advanced / Proto.

Increasing ISK payouts wont solve this problem.. in fact it will make it worse because suddenly they CAN turn profits easily running prototype as a coordinated team. Your 'ass-whooping' will get worse, and for longer, since the payouts wont cut into their already swelling wallets.

And again, I will reiterate... this will make it even harder on the new guys who ONLY have SP to run Standard and no amount of ISK will help them claw back the balance. They could buy Proto or Advanced Gear, but cannot use it. Same with Weapons.

How are you going to say an organized team will trump blueberries as an arguing point , thats like saying a nuke is capable of killing cats,

Secondly, what i want is for the other 10BB'S to be able to make enough isk to be less fearfull

IF they participated enough
and ESPECIALLY if they get the victory,

Short of insane expenses due to whatever reason

a victory should cover the isk lost getting it!


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 983	Posted - 2014.01.25 00:15:00 - [1] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: You can easily turn a profit with advanced gear. You're not meant to turn a profit with prototype gear. Vehicles can If you do good in proto you should profit, slightly at least Well fit Vehicles cost around half a mill ISK (admittedly the militia vehicles and modules need to be removed, or reduced in functionality as they are simply too powerful to have with 0 SP investment).. they lose 1, and they lose profit... Sure if they don't die they turn a profit, but Dropsuits are the same there. If anything the ISK pay outs are sometimes too high, allowing Prototype Usage more than it really should. "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys." Sun Tzu
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 984	Posted - 2014.01.25 10:21:00 - [2] - Quote NK Scout wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: NK Scout wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: You can easily turn a profit with advanced gear. You're not meant to turn a profit with prototype gear. Vehicles can If you do good in proto you should profit, slightly at least Well fit Vehicles cost around half a mill ISK (admittedly the militia vehicles and modules need to be removed, or reduced in functionality as they are simply too powerful to have with 0 SP investment).. they lose 1, and they lose profit... Sure if they don't die they turn a profit, but Dropsuits are the same there. If anything the ISK pay outs are sometimes too high, allowing Prototype Usage more than it really should. corps could spam proto while other people cant, it hurts non farmers dropsuits die easier than vehicles Then the answer is to help put a hold on the ISK farms, not increase the pay outs, which would only help the farmers more. "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys." Sun Tzu
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 984	Posted - 2014.01.25 11:05:00 - [3] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Or just let people us proto to compete without going so isk negative And further punish the newer people who haven't got the SP to use proto. "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys." Sun Tzu
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 990	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:33:00 - [4] - Quote NoxMort3m wrote: Heavenly Daughter wrote: NoxMort3m wrote: The average match should payout 500 k instead of the current average of 200-300k its nearly impossible to generate isk in ubs using anything other than basic gear play more conservatively, and it's easy to make profit in adv gear, I personally have given away over 100m ISK and still have 100 m for myself. Use cheaper gear if you can't sustain it. I shouldnt have to use basic every match make a profit and that almost promises a loss, victoris should a highe payout so if i die ten times in my proto heavy kepping the leter blue i should get nearly enough isk to pay for it,same for advanced or basic when i go 50/20 fighting for the win, The ideal of not making a profit for running proto is designed to level the playing field in pub matches. The issue is not the payout from the pub matches, it's the other ISK faucets. People who have been playing this game for the entire year, have been in PC, have hundreds of millions of ISK. This means that practically from now until they decide to leave they could run proto, even at a loss. Increasing the ISK payouts from Public Matches only feeds this fuel, and makes them capable for longer. The ISK faucets need to be less, not more, that way these guys who are capable of running Proto 'forever' will not be able to run it as long. Also, besides Gear, there are very few ISK faucets. One of the many reasons why I believe that Corporate Bases and other 'aesthetic' items should be introduced as ISK sinks. tl:dr Make pay outs less, and give us more stuff we 'want' to spend ISK on. "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys." Sun Tzu
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 994	Posted - 2014.01.27 06:01:00 - [5] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: +1 more isk would certainly be a good incentive to try and win games currently i dont care if i win or lose in a pub match, but if i use a good suit and actually try to win i'll only end up losing isk - which defies the point of winning And giving out more ISK will actually make this issue worse. As I explained above, Proto Stomping is not supposed to be profitable, and the public arena is really the only place for Newer Players to go. Which means in public matches you have a range of newer, less geared people (discounting poor matchmaking decisions in whatever form there are). They can't do anything with this ISK to bring themselves to parity with Prototype-Level Players. However, if you attack the high-geared players ISK faucets, (lowering income) AND give them something besides gear to spend ISK on, then you will bring them down closer to parity as they can't run proto in public matches as long. Don't step on the little guys to make sure you big guys can turn a profit stomping them. Once you go Black, you just never go back!
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 994	Posted - 2014.01.27 12:45:00 - [6] - Quote NoxMort3m wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: VikingKong iBUN wrote: +1 more isk would certainly be a good incentive to try and win games currently i dont care if i win or lose in a pub match, but if i use a good suit and actually try to win i'll only end up losing isk - which defies the point of winning And giving out more ISK will actually make this issue worse. As I explained above, Proto Stomping is not supposed to be profitable, and the public arena is really the only place for Newer Players to go. Which means in public matches you have a range of newer, less geared people (discounting poor matchmaking decisions in whatever form there are). They can't do anything with this ISK to bring themselves to parity with Prototype-Level Players. However, if you attack the high-geared players ISK faucets, (lowering income) AND give them something besides gear to spend ISK on, then you will bring them down closer to parity as they can't run proto in public matches as long. Don't step on the little guys to make sure you big guys can turn a profit stomping them. your so hung up on he idea of proto gear making a profit you dont realize that in any match where your fighting a good team you cant even make a profit with advanced grar That is not a matter of ISK payouts then is it? It's a matter of A) Matchmaking, and b) teamwork. A coordinated team, even in STD gear, will generally trump a team of random blueberries, even if they run Advanced / Proto. Increasing ISK payouts wont solve this problem.. in fact it will make it worse because suddenly they CAN turn profits easily running prototype as a coordinated team. Your 'ass-whooping' will get worse, and for longer, since the payouts wont cut into their already swelling wallets. And again, I will reiterate... this will make it even harder on the new guys who ONLY have SP to run Standard and no amount of ISK will help them claw back the balance. They could buy Proto or Advanced Gear, but cannot use it. Same with Weapons. Once you go Black, you just never go back!
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 994	Posted - 2014.01.28 00:45:00 - [7] - Quote NoxMort3m wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: NoxMort3m wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: VikingKong iBUN wrote: +1 more isk would certainly be a good incentive to try and win games currently i dont care if i win or lose in a pub match, but if i use a good suit and actually try to win i'll only end up losing isk - which defies the point of winning And giving out more ISK will actually make this issue worse. As I explained above, Proto Stomping is not supposed to be profitable, and the public arena is really the only place for Newer Players to go. Which means in public matches you have a range of newer, less geared people (discounting poor matchmaking decisions in whatever form there are). They can't do anything with this ISK to bring themselves to parity with Prototype-Level Players. However, if you attack the high-geared players ISK faucets, (lowering income) AND give them something besides gear to spend ISK on, then you will bring them down closer to parity as they can't run proto in public matches as long. Don't step on the little guys to make sure you big guys can turn a profit stomping them. your so hung up on he idea of proto gear making a profit you dont realize that in any match where your fighting a good team you cant even make a profit with advanced grar That is not a matter of ISK payouts then is it? It's a matter of A) Matchmaking, and b) teamwork. A coordinated team, even in STD gear, will generally trump a team of random blueberries, even if they run Advanced / Proto. Increasing ISK payouts wont solve this problem.. in fact it will make it worse because suddenly they CAN turn profits easily running prototype as a coordinated team. Your 'ass-whooping' will get worse, and for longer, since the payouts wont cut into their already swelling wallets. And again, I will reiterate... this will make it even harder on the new guys who ONLY have SP to run Standard and no amount of ISK will help them claw back the balance. They could buy Proto or Advanced Gear, but cannot use it. Same with Weapons. How are you going to say an organized team will trump blueberries as an arguing point , thats like saying a nuke is capable of killing cats, Secondly, what i want is for the other 10BB'S to be able to make enough isk to be less fearfull IF they participated enough and ESPECIALLY if they get the victory, Short of insane expenses due to whatever reason a victory should cover the isk lost getting it! You have to look at it from both ends of the scale, however. The higher payouts will unbalance the matches even further. The new guys who CANNOT run Prototype Gear, no matter how much ISK they have, will be stomped even worse, and for longer. THe only way increased ISK payout should happen, if it will happen, is if you have completely segregated games with max-level gear for each. Example, Match STD - Militia / Standard Level Gear Only, any fit with Advanced / Prototype or Enhanced / Complex Modules are invalid Match ADV - Militia / Standard / Advanced Level Gear Only, any fit with Prototype or Complex Modules are Invalid Match PRO - All Gear is allowed. They did this once during closed beta, and while the games and matchmaking were far more balanced, it splintered the community and a lot of games had 4-8 people in them, not the full 32. Unless they can provide some measure for ISK to be able to balance low-end players, they need to try balance public matches by making your more expensive suits harder to turn a profit in. Once you go Black, you just never go back!
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1004	Posted - 2014.02.02 16:17:00 - [8] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Although I would like to agree with you on this I am not entirely sure how low payouts level the playing field considering the people you talk about run nothing but proto and have as you say hundreds of millions of isk. I have been playing for longer than just a year and have yet to have anywhere close to 100mil or even 20mil in earnings from pub matches and PC combined. As a logi I am normally somewhere in the top 5 and earn the WP through equipment usage in combination with killing. A lot of the time that gets me killed. If we need an ISK faucet as you say maybe the empires should start selling districts to the rest of us, so everyone can lock a few and farm the **** out of PC. I did state that it was the ideal. I didn't say it was working as yet. The idea behind any basic economy is to have income, and expenditure. Now in DUST, we have income, and expenditure, but the general trend is that income is generally higher for many (and I say this as a Tanker who can't afford 1 of his Gunloggi's to be lost in a battle to make a profit) than their expenditure. As stated in people's posts above, there are no incentives to win a battle, so people AFK... AFK, no loss, no risk, = ISK gained. It doesn't matter how much you get, because you got it at no risk whatsoever. Now onto the dilemma, how do you reward those who actually risk higher expenditure? A simple Win / Loss Ration of ISK payout wont work... I see this especially when playing on Oceanic Servers. We will have 3-4 AFK on one team, and I and 1 other will be actively fighting a squad of 6 actives. No matter what kind of gear we pull out, the odds are generally not in our favour. Should we get more ISK? How do you differentiate the guys who risk nothing from the guys who risk a lot? I have gone entire matches 'playing the objectives' by guarding my team's home point. My team keeps them busy inside the facility, they enemy never approaches the home point. I get 0/0 and 0 WP.... Yet I have a Tank on the Field, and / or run a Proto Suit. I risked a hell of a lot (much more than I would have earned) but because I had favourable terms, I get rewarded less? The balance will never be there at this stage. With any system from here on you implement, there will be some people who are punished no matter what they do, and some who are rewarded for risking nothing. Increase ISK pay outs for the Winning Team? What about the guys running proto on the losing team who go 5/10 because they're outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1? Shouldn't they be compensated in the same manner as any other proto-wearing team member? By trying to bring down the quality of gear in public matches by having an 'unsustainable' income if you run prototype gear, they are attempting to force a more balanced playing field between newer players (who can't wear Proto Gear) and Old Hands who can. Increasing the ISK payout wont help the newer players, it will only help the older players who can run prototype gear. What is required is a separate arena for 'Proto-users' to go to.. or PvE to help the Newer Players Gear and Skill into a higher level of gear before engaging hostile players. And cutting off ISK faucets, or increasing expenditures (such as buying warbarges, or materials to 'create' your fits, or customisation of your merc quarters for ISK, or any number of asked for features that can be used to 'build a balanced economy'. Balanced Economy is Income = Expenditures. But when things such as KDR and NPE are involved, we need alternatives. Once you go Black, you just never go back!