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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
750
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Posted - 2014.01.24 20:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
No change needed. The cloak bonus really only helps non-Gal Scouts, and that's only if they're scanned while their cloak is on. It's overkill on Gal Scouts who already have natural profile reduction.
If you're really concerned about medium frames using it to dodge scans instead of using dampeners, consider this - one complex dampener (33 CPU) only gets you under ADVANCED scans (which are the most common right now). Is equipping a CPU/PG-hungry basic cloak module that only lets you avoid advanced scans for at max, 60% of the match, really a better option?
Remember, you could only dodge scans if you activate your cloak before you are scanned, so you'd have to have a godly sense of timing to remain unscanned. And you are far more likely to get scanned while doing things that you can't do while cloaked (i.e. killing enemies) so you are SOL once this happens.
And if you want to dodge 28dB proto scans and 36dB scans passively, you'll still need Dampening to 5 and have to equip a Complex Dampener and a cloak. I'll bet only proto logis could manage this without severely gimping the rest of your suit. |
Nyra Volki
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
127
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Posted - 2014.01.24 21:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Asha Starwind wrote:Nyra Volki wrote:I'm a scout an more for removing the profile reduction completely. Stop lying, you are an assault. Speed-tanked I'll give you to that but it's still a med frame. Hahah, lolbusted.
An how would you know that. have you even met me in the battlefield.
Silent you must be
Or die you will
From True scout a kind message
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
396
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Posted - 2014.01.24 22:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
I've been playing as a Gallente Scout since December and I think cloaks shouldn't have a profile dampening bonus. If necessary reduce the fitting cost of the cloak to compensate.
A scout should be either visually detectable or profile-scannable. As a Gallente Scout it's very easy to hide from high-level scanners and avoid visual detection by staying in cover. As an Amarr Scout it should be easy to hide in plain sight but difficult to hide from very strong scanners.
(For the sake of completeness: As a Minmatar Scout it should be easy to break Line-of-sight by getting to cover quickly and as a Caldari Scout it should be easy to hunt down even relatively well dampened targets.)
I'd hate for Gallente Scouts to be undetectable both visually and by scanner. I know which suit I'm going to skill into if this gets into the release. Good luck finding me before I have my charged Scrambler Rifle aimed at your back. |
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
643
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Posted - 2014.01.24 22:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Nyra Volki wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Asha Starwind wrote:Nyra Volki wrote:I'm a scout an more for removing the profile reduction completely. Stop lying, you are an assault. Speed-tanked I'll give you to that but it's still a med frame. Hahah, lolbusted. An how would you know that. have you even met me in the battlefield.
I have... inside a tank. |
Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
130
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Posted - 2014.01.24 23:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:No change needed. The cloak bonus really only helps non-Gal Scouts, and that's only if they're scanned while their cloak is on. It's overkill on Gal Scouts who already have natural profile reduction.
If you're really concerned about medium frames using it to dodge scans instead of using dampeners, consider this - one complex dampener (33 CPU) only gets you under ADVANCED scans (which are the most common right now). Is equipping a CPU/PG-hungry basic cloak module that only lets you avoid advanced scans for at max, 60% of the match, really a better option?
Remember, you could only dodge scans if you activate your cloak before you are scanned, so you'd have to have a godly sense of timing to remain unscanned. And you are far more likely to get scanned while doing things that you can't do while cloaked (i.e. killing enemies) so you are SOL once this happens.
And if you want to dodge 28dB proto scans and 36dB scans passively, you'll still need Dampening to 5 and have to equip a Complex Dampener and a cloak. I'll bet only proto logis could manage this without severely gimping the rest of your suit.
I'd argue the cloak bonus helps Gal Scouts just as much because the cloak bonus gives them a free low slot, whereas other suits would have to equip a dampener. This post shows the breakdown for the non-Gal Scouts and all Active Scanners. So to passively avoid all scans (I believe this is with skills max'd), non-Gal Scouts would need 2 slots with complex dampeners + cloak for visual. Were they to drop a complex, they could borderline using any of the cloaks. Gal Scouts would still be at -1 low slot (compared to other Scouts) in all of that because of the bonus. Regardless, thats not really the point I'm trying to make; just a side thought.
I'm not at all worried about the medium frames using the cloak; in fact, I think it'd be really interesting and am glad med frames will be able to use cloaks! Relatively speaking, the basic/advanced cloak isn't actually that CPU/PG hefty with max'd core, electronic, and engineering skills (on a Proto). I really couldn't say the better option; a max'd Proto Assault can fit a basic(and maybe advanced, too) cloak, with dampeners filling low, and a Proto light weapon with ever so slight room to spare.
Dodging the scans before being scanned is true, but with the 360 changes, chances are by flanking one will have enough time not be scanned or just stacking complex to avoid the scans all together.
Like I said above, it won't only be Proto Logis. Even a Proto Commando could do it, albiet I'm not sure how this would help since the Commando's gonna be getting lit up all the time regardless (haven't done calculations; feel free to correct me). Who knows, maybe that 25% basic will let the Commandos avoid most scans (with stacked PD in lows).
I was going to use that Installation...
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
130
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Posted - 2014.01.24 23:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:[...]
I'd hate for Gallente Scouts to be undetectable both visually and by scanner. I know which suit I'm going to skill into if this gets into the release. Good luck finding me before I have my charged Scrambler Rifle aimed at your back.
With the current numbers, all the Scouts will be able to do this with enough Dampeners. Cloaks at current standing, Scouts will be able to avoid all scans at -1 to -2 low slots (profile dampeners) at every level of cloak. Really only an advanced level cloak would be needed for a reasonable total cloak time; the Proto one isn't worth using compared to overall cloaked time gained vs. CPU/PG weight.
I was going to use that Installation...
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
131
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Posted - 2014.01.25 00:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
Removal: 3
Change: 2
No Change: 6
Other: 1
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Maybe my concern is unclear? The concern I'm trying to express is the higher tier cloaks offer little to no benefit (mainly the step from advanced to proto) for the CPU/PG increase. With the constant 25% profile reduction, the advanced cloak is just as good, if not better than the proto cloak; less overall cloak time, less CPU/PG.
Nevertheless, those who want the cloak changed vs. those who don't want it changed seems pretty even atm.
I was going to use that Installation...
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Horizen Kenpachi
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
136
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Posted - 2014.01.25 00:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
Not a scout but love racing objectives at the beggining mlt style was woundering if theres a possibilty to equipt to cloaks at once probably a logi but what would that mean
Hit me with your nerf bat.
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
131
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Posted - 2014.01.25 00:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Horizen Kenpachi wrote:Not a scout but love racing objectives at the beggining mlt style was woundering if theres a possibilty to equipt to cloaks at once probably a logi but what would that mean
Limit to one cloak per suit; neither Logis nor Scouts could equip two.
I was going to use that Installation...
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Nyra Volki
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
129
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Posted - 2014.01.25 09:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Nyra Volki wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Asha Starwind wrote:Nyra Volki wrote:I'm a scout an more for removing the profile reduction completely. Stop lying, you are an assault. Speed-tanked I'll give you to that but it's still a med frame. Hahah, lolbusted. An how would you know that. have you even met me in the battlefield. I have... inside a tank.
Yeah i'll bring out a militia fit if other tankers start to annoy me.
Silent you must be
Or die you will
From True scout a kind message
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
134
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Posted - 2014.01.25 15:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
No changes on the votes since last post:
Removal: 3
Change: 2
No Change: 6
Other: 1
---
More opinions? Everyone welcome!
I was going to use that Installation...
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mr musturd
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
316
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Posted - 2014.01.25 15:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
No change leave things alone till they're actually in game |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
515
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 16:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:thing is at this point the scouts that haven't skilled into galente won't be able to dodge alot o the scans coming out due to loosing our PD bonus.
Being lit up no matter how many PDs I put in my lows?
No thanks.
We don't loose that much as or scan profile gets reduced to 35 thats roughly the value we can achieve through the current skill. I seen o reason why the cloaking field dampening effect should go.... |
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