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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
128
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Shello people,
I'm a Scout. I've unsuccessfully fought as an Assault and successfully fought as a non-slayer Logi.
I've been looking at the Cloaking Fields and something hasn't felt right about them to me; I finally realized the off-factor was the scan profile reduction.
As the Cloaking Fields stand, I don't like how each tier has the same profile reduction because the profile reduction is equal to a complex dampener at every level. The way I see this, a non-Scout Proto suit could effectively use the standard level Cloak Field at a similar to level to Scouts using a Proto cloak. Other suits would receive the same profile dampening bonus from the basic level cloak and have CPU/PG to spare for complex profile dampeners and even proto weapons (although, I don't think they'd be able to fit everything with proto).
Even proto Scouts using an advanced cloak would reap the same stealth rewards as a proto Scout using a proto cloak for less cost and an overall marginally reduced cloaking period (when factoring in the cloak recovers like stamina and not like vehicle modules, even though this might not be absolute).
I don't like how the profile reduction remains consistent across the board, how all the suits could use this fact to their advantage, and how the cloak profile reduction isn't tiered to match modules and skills at their respective levels. This said, I'd wanted to see what people think about the profile reduction being either removed completely or matching the dampener at the cloak's respective level.
Standard -> 15% profile reduction
Advanced -> 20% profile reduction
Prototype -> 25% profile reduction
I don't want to destroy the possibility of other suits using the cloak, but I don't like how the profile reduction tiering works for Scouts and non-Scouts alike. I'd rather not see an proto Scout using advanced or even standard equipment be able to stealth tank just as well as a proto Scout using proto gear for a reduced price. I'd also rather not see other Proto suits being able to stealth tank using a standard cloak as well as they could were they to have a proto cloak.
What do people think (Scouts and non-Scouts alike)? Does this seem reasonable? Is my post wrong in any way?
TL;DR:
Cloaking Field Profile Reduction
Removed X_X
-OR-
Standard -> 15%
Advanced -> 20%
Prototype -> 25%
Thoughts?
EDIT: Am I using the right values for profile dampeners at each tier? I think I might be looking at old values. Another thing that popped in my head would be this:
Standard -> 5%
Advanced -> 15%
Prototype -> 25%
to match the profile dampening skill each level instead of the modules.
I was going to use that Installation...
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1721
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Have you seen the CPU and PG usage of the cloak you'd be insane to not use it on a scout suit.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Nyra Volki
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
123
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm a scout an more for removing the profile reduction completely.
Silent you must be
Or die you will
From True scout a kind message
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Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
151
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Terrible idea. Try again.
Think the game's broke? Go here and fix it yourself
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Nyra Volki
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
123
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pro scout suit reduces CPU an PG greatly which makes us OP.
Silent you must be
Or die you will
From True scout a kind message
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
128
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Posted - 2014.01.23 02:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Have you seen the CPU and PG usage of the cloak you'd be insane to not use it on a scout suit.
The fitting cost of the standard cloak on proto suits actually really isn't that hefty**. Advanced is pretty bad, while proto is killer. Nevertheless, other suits (I'm think mostly Assault & Logi, although Commando could do it, too) can fit the cloaks pretty well.
**This is with max'd PG/CPU skills.
I was going to use that Installation...
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1004
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dampening is only active while player is cloaked (has the cloak field "on").
So, their is no continues benifit here: 30s active 20s inactive at std.
I'm ok with the with .25 across the board the reward for proto is 80s active 40s in active.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1004
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Double post.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Harpyja
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
1128
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Welcome to the problems vehicles already got through tiericide! Where investment is not rewarded and scrubs can use standard modules for the same gains!
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
129
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Dampening is only active while player is cloaked (has the cloak field "on").
So, their is no continues benifit here: 30s active 20s inactive at std.
I'm ok with the with .25 across the board the reward for proto is 80s active 40s in active.
That is true; however, because the cloak fields are predicted to work like stamina, the total seconds the cloak is used at any one period of time isn't going to majorly change. Moreover, by the time I flank the enemy and/or exit a fire-fight, my cloak will be ready to use again anyway (assuming there is not a delay like stamina, but even if there is it wouldn't be much of a problem at a distance).
There isn't really a reward for Proto other than you can use the cloak more sloppily because you have more overall time to use it. Adjusting the dampening would mean that the reward is being able to stealth tank better rather than longer.
Harpyja wrote:Welcome to the problems vehicles already got through tiericide! Where investment is not rewarded and scrubs can use standard modules for the same gains!
Generally, I don't use vehicles, so I wouldn't know. Hopefully some preventative measures will take care of these problems before they arise. To those who are dealing with the vehicle problems, best of luck!
I was going to use that Installation...
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3946
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
@ Samuel Zelik
I agree.
Cloaking =/= Profile dampening.
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1004
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Samuel Zelik wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Dampening is only active while player is cloaked (has the cloak field "on").
So, their is no continues benifit here: 30s active 20s inactive at std.
I'm ok with the with .25 across the board the reward for proto is 80s active 40s in active. That is true; however, because the cloak fields are predicted to work like stamina, the total seconds the cloak is used at any one period of time isn't going to majorly change. Moreover, by the time I flank the enemy and/or exit a fire-fight, my cloak will be ready to use again anyway (assuming there is not a delay like stamina, but even if there is it wouldn't be much of a problem at a distance). There isn't really a reward for Proto other than you can use the cloak more sloppily because you have more overall time to use it. Adjusting the dampening would mean that the reward is being able to stealth tank better rather than longer. Harpyja wrote:Welcome to the problems vehicles already got through tiericide! Where investment is not rewarded and scrubs can use standard modules for the same gains! Generally, I don't use vehicles, so I wouldn't know. Hopefully some preventative measures will take care of these problems before they arise. To those who are dealing with the vehicle problems, best of luck!
Well, I simply don't agree with you, that is all. You say more time alow the player to use sloppily. I say more time equates to longer "effective" use.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
129
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:
Well, I simply don't agree with you, that is all. You say more time alow the player to use sloppily. I say more time equates to longer "effective" use.
Trying to see what others think and clarify how I perceive things, too. Thank you for your input and please vote on the poll. 
I don't agree that more time = longer "effective" use, but I guess I can sort of see where you're coming from. Maybe its the recharge (still don't know enough about the cloak mechanics)?
I was going to use that Installation...
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
4119
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
thing is at this point the scouts that haven't skilled into galente won't be able to dodge alot o the scans coming out due to loosing our PD bonus.
Being lit up no matter how many PDs I put in my lows?
No thanks.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 4
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
129
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Posted - 2014.01.23 03:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:@ Samuel Zelik
I agree.
Cloaking =/= Profile dampening.
So you're for removing over adjusting? I'm still on the fence... I'm not sure whether that would solve the problem of the advantage of the tiers being purely time, but I think removal would be better than keeping what we have now (since no one would get a free complex for putting in little SP). I'm leaning more towards adjustment because the dampening seems like more of contrast, but at the same time I agree with your statement.
I was going to use that Installation...
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
129
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:thing is at this point the scouts that haven't skilled into galente won't be able to dodge alot o the scans coming out due to loosing our PD bonus.
Being lit up no matter how many PDs I put in my lows?
No thanks.
Could you link or show the math for the other suits? I can't seem to find it and would like to know that stats as a reference.
Regarding being lit up all the time: since the spin-scan is being removed and we'll start receiving snap shots instead of tracking scans, dodging the scans will be made easier. Not sure who all will be using the focused scanner, but swinging around from the main force will most likely mean you have less of a chance of being scanned (unless some Logis start sac'ing equipment slots to stack scanners <- prolly not gonna happen) and they won't be able to tell your direction, even if you are scanned.
I was going to use that Installation...
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
220
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
What id really like is the cloak to be more cpu intensive but less pg intensive. The pg is killer because it is needed for all biotic modules, which scouts rely on to survive
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
129
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:What id really like is the cloak to be more cpu intensive but less pg intensive. The pg is killer because it is needed for all biotic modules, which scouts rely on to survive
I don't use biotics. :/ PG heftiness is probably a trade off for getting the visual/engineering immersion. CPU seems like the electronic side, but I don't remember dampeners taking up that much space.
I was going to use that Installation...
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1005
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Samuel Zelik wrote:[quote=Sinboto Simmons]thing is at this point the scouts that haven't skilled into galente won't be able to dodge alot o the scans coming out due to loosing our PD bonus.
Being lit up no matter how many PDs I put in my lows?
No thanks.
Could you link or show the math for the other suits? I can't seem to find it and would like to know that stats as a reference.
Non G-scout no mod: 31 dB
Non G-scout one mod: 24 dB
Non G-scout two mods: 18
G-logi scanner:
Adv: 27 dB
Proto: 21 dB
Proto focused: 15 dB
Non G-logi scanner:
Adv: 36 dB
Proto: 28 dB
Proto focused: 20 dB
{:)}{3GÇó>
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ladwar
Death by Disassociation
Legacy Rising
1968
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
don't worry OP because you will never be able to fit cloaking on your scout
bonus cost= more cost not less
the word you placed there in your mind was reduction which isn't there.
Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet.
I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth
not looking for a corp, don't ask.
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
4119
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Samuel Zelik wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:thing is at this point the scouts that haven't skilled into galente won't be able to dodge alot o the scans coming out due to loosing our PD bonus.
Being lit up no matter how many PDs I put in my lows?
No thanks. Could you link or show the math for the other suits? I can't seem to find it and would like to know that stats as a reference. Regarding being lit up all the time: since the spin-scan is being removed and we'll start receiving snap shots instead of tracking scans, dodging the scans will be made easier. Not sure who all will be using the focused scanner, but swinging around from the main force will most likely mean you have less of a chance of being scanned (unless some Logis start sac'ing equipment slots to stack scanners <- prolly not gonna happen) and they won't be able to tell your direction, even if you are scanned.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370
Check both the scout stats and the gallogi.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1750833#post1750833 scanners here.
I will agree though that the bonus to PD needs to be looked at for cloaks.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 4
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
4119
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Samuel Zelik wrote:[quote=Sinboto Simmons]thing is at this point the scouts that haven't skilled into galente won't be able to dodge alot o the scans coming out due to loosing our PD bonus.
Being lit up no matter how many PDs I put in my lows?
No thanks. Could you link or show the math for the other suits? I can't seem to find it and would like to know that stats as a reference. Non G-scout no mod: 31 dB Non G-scout one mod: 24 dB Non G-scout two mods: 18 G-logi scanner: Adv: 27 dB Proto: 21 dB Proto focused: 15 dB Non G-logi scanner: Adv: 36 dB Proto: 28 dB Proto focused: 20 dB
Ah thanks, guess my math was wrong. 
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 4
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12507
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
No
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
317
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Never trust anyone with that many periods. |
Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
129
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:
Non G-scout no mod: 31 dB
Non G-scout one mod: 24 dB
Non G-scout two mods: 18 dB
G-logi scanner:
Adv: 27 dB
Proto: 21 dB
Proto focused: 15 dB
Non G-logi scanner:
Adv: 36 dB
Proto: 28 dB
Proto focused: 20 dB
Thank you!
Doesn't seem unmanageable to me, atm.
Any particular reason or... ?
I was going to use that Installation...
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Asha Starwind
VEXALATION CORPORATION
Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
215
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nyra Volki wrote:I'm a scout an more for removing the profile reduction completely.
Stop lying, you are an assault. Speed-tanked I'll give you to that but it's still a med frame. |
Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1006
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Asha Starwind wrote:Nyra Volki wrote:I'm a scout an more for removing the profile reduction completely. Stop lying, you are an assault. Speed-tanked I'll give you to that but it's still a med frame.
Hahah, lolbusted.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3952
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Posted - 2014.01.23 04:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Samuel Zelik wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:@ Samuel Zelik
I agree.
Cloaking =/= Profile dampening.
So you're for removing over adjusting? I'm still on the fence... I'm not sure whether that would solve the problem of the advantage of the tiers being purely time, but I think removal would be better than keeping what we have now (since no one would get a free complex for putting in little SP). I'm leaning more towards adjustment because the dampening seems like more of contrast, but at the same time I agree with your statement.
If it was me i would completely remove it.
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
129
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Posted - 2014.01.24 19:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Anymore opinions? This isn't address just to Scouts. So far the votes are:
Removal: 2
Change: 1
No Change: 4
Other: 1
I was going to use that Installation...
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
759
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Posted - 2014.01.24 20:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
As a gallente scout I say don't change it, but I will be able to avoid proto scanners without it, and with it I still can't avoid fused focus scanners so it wouldn't effect me personally. |
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