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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4687
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXeML0Zu9tQ&feature=youtu.be
Sure, the Scrambler Rifle has over-heat but when you can dish out 20 rounds before it over-heats, the factors are weighed. There aren't any rate of fire stipulations involved and while I do understand that the Scrambler Rifle is the predominant single fire weapon in Dust 514, with the Tac AR being a less powerful mimic of it, it certainly is the obvious choice when you compare the two.
Apart from being able to charge it up and hay-maker someone with a 2.9x damage shot which can pretty much strip the shields off of anything and even one-shot some less powerful suits, the sheer damage application from it's rate of fire is unparalleled.
In this video, it took the Tactical Assault Rifle about 5 seconds to fire off it's entire 18 round magazine and the Scrambler Rifle about 20 shots in 3 seconds (bear in mind this was on a sentinel suit with no bonus to heat build-up)
What this means is that an advanced Tactical Assault Rifle would do a total of 1,350 damage with 18 rounds at about 270 DPS. By comparison, an advanced Scrambler Rifle would do about 1,512 damage with 20 rounds at about 504 DPS.
The reason I bring this up is because a friend informed me that it's possible to use a modded controller and fire enough rounds to cause over-heat almost instantaneously, dealing out enough to damage to kill almost anything that you put your cross-hairs on in doing so. I don't know this for sure (I don't have a modded controller) I tried to fire it off as fast as I possibly could and, suffice to say, it's a fairly powerful weapon even without a modded controller.
In either case, I've always felt the Scrambler Rifle was just a little too powerful in one area or another when compared with the Tactical Assault Rifle and I personally feel this may be a factor in choosing between the two.
If anyone does have one and you have video recording equipment, throw up a video and let's see how it looks!
Useful Links
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Dustbunny Durrr
ReD or DeaD
57
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
I do agree that the TAC AR needs love, but atm we have so many version of so many rifles, that some are falling by the wayside, and will need to be looked at eventually.
Keep in mind though that the damage profile of the scrambler is not the same as the TAC AR (less than 100% base damage vs armor, 80 IIRC), and a very high fitting requirement for the scrambler, is not to be overlooked. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
8148
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Currently, TAR is just bad compared to the SCR.
It has much lower range, lower RoF, lower clip size, much worse hipfire, etc.
The idea that it's an imitation variant and therefore it must be bad is stupid, before anyone tries to justify this with that. Why have a weapon be designed to be awful? Additionally, by that logic the assault variants of other rifles should be terrible - yet they're not, and often outperform the plasma rifle.
The TAR is currently in a sad place. I don't think it should be there.
Here's what I think of what could be done to it: It needs a role. Not to be exactly the same as the SCR, a long-range semi-auto, but perhaps a shorter range semi-auto with higher damage (and a good chunk of range still) in keeping with the Gallente blaster style being modified for a 'tactical' role.
Level 8 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1088
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Honestly, I don't see why either of them even need to have such high rates of fire.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2841
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well that's the only thing really
The ScR has an overpowered capability with modded controllers and I have run across them a few times and needless to say it was straight up unfair. However that is all that needs fixing. I love the TAR and really the only thing going against it right now is the small clip or overkick. But yeah fix that ScR rapid fire bullshit (ScR should be about high damage and controlled fire like the TAR).
Check out latest BSOTT Guide
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
8152
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Honestly, I don't see why either of them even need to have such high rates of fire. 400 RPM on the TAR is not a high rate of fire.
Level 8 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
294
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have a fancy mouse that I can run macros on.
With my various experiments with scrambler rifle macros I have never had it fire faster that the listed 700ish rpm (as far as I could tell). |
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
994
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
I confirm the near-instant overheat on scrambler rifle.
It's a little less than a one second to overheat. Actually that fact cuts of some of it's sick OPness and I guess that's why we don't see them in larger amounts - it's very hard to use, kind of a shotgun with cooldown.
FEEDBACK: Analysis on 1.7 tank functionality
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hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
227
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Posted - 2014.01.21 01:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'd like to see the tac turn into a short range sniper. <100m range, ~100dmg, 7-10 round clip, with a fire rate of 12rps, but kick that makes it unusable over 5rps consistently and 8 rps for over 4 shots
kick on this gun should be violent but recover quickly to the point where the last round was fired. It would need some randomized lateral kick as well. actually how snipers kick works would be about about right but with a slightly faster reset.
think the scrambler pistol in rifle form with a scope and a kick like Chuck Norris. |
Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2848
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:I'd like to see the tac turn into a short range sniper. <100m range, ~100dmg, 7-10 round clip, with a fire rate of 12rps, but kick that makes it unusable over 5rps consistently and 8 rps for over 4 shots
kick on this gun should be violent but recover quickly to the point where the last round was fired. It would need some randomized lateral kick as well. actually how snipers kick works would be about about right but with a slightly faster reset.
think the scrambler pistol in rifle form with a scope and a kick like Chuck Norris. But the TAR already kicks like a muel and the ScR has minimal kick
Check out latest BSOTT Guide
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Durza Wolfmord
The Unit 514
0
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
My alt uses the Tac AR, the trick is knowing how to pick your targets. Aim, fire, fall back. Do not keep firing when people see you. But the Scrambler Rifle is a mean piece. The calculations, are they with Proficiency 5 or just base? |
GVGMODE
WorstPlayersEver
108
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Is it me or 0:31 hears like a turbo controller |
Denn Maell
PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives
89
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
All of the Blasters just plain underperform. And the DPS increase from STD, ADV, and PRO is one of the lowest increases in the game atm. Really there is nothing to recommend the Duvolle versus the Basic right now.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
378
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Posted - 2014.01.21 03:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
I kinda-- agree with the OP, let me explain.
The tac AR has a RPM of 400, giving it a RPS of 6.667
The ScR has a RPM of 705, giving it a RPS of 12.5 (about)
Now NO ONE can fire at 12.5 rounds per second without the assists of a turbo controller, and even 6.66 rounds per second is pushing it.
I do think that the RPM should be cut back to the same rate as the TAR for no other reason than to not give turbo users an advantage over normal players (or a larger advantage).
TLDR: Cut the ScR back to 400 RPM, no human can use faster firing than that anyway.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
621
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Posted - 2014.01.21 03:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Scram, CR - both have problems because they're spammable by modded controllers.
(TAC not so much because of hipfire spread and ADS kick)
"Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)"
GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
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noob cavman
Tickle My Null-Sac
433
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Posted - 2014.01.21 04:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aeon i have a ****** back up controller with a turbo function. If you need to see it i cann squad up with you ane show how bad it is tomorrow (later today for me) bout 11pm 12am eve time
Hey mlt tank guess what my lav is ready and I GOT TWO TICKETS TO PARADISE!!!
British ninja cowboy
scout, logi, heavy
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University Ivy League
168
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Posted - 2014.01.21 04:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dustbunny Durrr wrote:I do agree that the TAC AR needs love, but atm we have so many version of so many rifles, that some are falling by the wayside, and will need to be looked at eventually.
Keep in mind though that the damage profile of the scrambler is not the same as the TAC AR (less than 100% base damage vs armor, 80 IIRC), and a very high fitting requirement for the scrambler, is not to be overlooked.
Just like CCP got rid of role bonused vehicles for the sake of finding a proper balance from a base line, I think CCP should get rid of Tactical, Assault, Breach, and Burst variants until the reach a good balance.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
227
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Posted - 2014.01.21 04:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I kinda-- agree with the OP, let me explain.
The tac AR has a RPM of 400, giving it a RPS of 6.667
The ScR has a RPM of 705, giving it a RPS of 12.5 (about)
Now NO ONE can fire at 12.5 rounds per second without the assists of a turbo controller, and even 6.66 rounds per second is pushing it.
I do think that the RPM should be cut back to the same rate as the TAR for no other reason than to not give turbo users an advantage over normal players (or a larger advantage).
TLDR: Cut the ScR back to 400 RPM, no human can use faster firing than that anyway.
its pretty easy to pull 8rps unassisted but not accurately, and there are people who can pull 15, soooo I still think its a better I dea to balance for skill using kick and heatup, tho ccp needs to start using exponential timers for those, so they spike then drop fast then start to level so you have diminishing returns the faster you fire, it makes the weapons super deadly for those who can on command vary firerate, while making turbos impractical. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
107
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Posted - 2014.01.21 04:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:Honestly, I don't see why either of them even need to have such high rates of fire. 400 RPM on the TAR is not a high rate of fire.
Its the same as a CR. 1200 RPM/ 3 shot burst=400RPM
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4690
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Well that's the only thing really
The ScR has an overpowered capability with modded controllers and I have run across them a few times and needless to say it was straight up unfair. However that is all that needs fixing. I love the TAR and really the only thing going against it right now is the small clip or overkick. But yeah fix that ScR rapid fire bullshit (ScR should be about high damage and controlled fire like the TAR).
I tried to argue the same point with the Breach AR vs Rail Rifle and well the Burst AR vs CR was just beyond hopeless.
Even if you evened out the rate of fire the Tactical Assault rifle would still under-perform in range, damage, clip size; etc. Gallente are about damage and honestly, I find it sort of strange that the TAR's base damage is lower than the Scramblers, even when the Scrambler has the ability to charge for next to three times the normal damage.
I'd honestly like to see the TAR have it's damage bumped up so that it's comparable by it's own right without the charge-up. Higher base damage and lower range hallmarking on Gallente combat philosophy, clip sizes can remain the same but ultimately it becomes a higher damage, frantic rounds vs charged, deliberate shots scenario when comparing the two. I don't see any reason that one should completely outclass the other, they should have different styles.
noob cavman wrote:Aeon i have a ****** back up controller with a turbo function. If you need to see it i cann squad up with you ane show how bad it is tomorrow (later today for me) bout 11pm 12am eve time
Get a video of it if you can. I'm likely to be busy.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1092
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:Honestly, I don't see why either of them even need to have such high rates of fire. 400 RPM on the TAR is not a high rate of fire. That's still almost seven rounds a second. A bit unnecessary for a semi-automatic rifle, don't you think?
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1474
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Posted - 2014.01.21 10:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I kinda-- agree with the OP, let me explain.
The tac AR has a RPM of 400, giving it a RPS of 6.667
The ScR has a RPM of 705, giving it a RPS of 12.5 (about)
Now NO ONE can fire at 12.5 rounds per second without the assists of a turbo controller, and even 6.66 rounds per second is pushing it.
I do think that the RPM should be cut back to the same rate as the TAR for no other reason than to not give turbo users an advantage over normal players (or a larger advantage).
TLDR: Cut the ScR back to 400 RPM, no human can use faster firing than that anyway. 6.66 rounds is not pushing it. That's average. Most people can do that without issue. Some people are capable of 9-10 rounds per second.
We should cap both of their their RoF at 600. That allows almost everyone to make the most out of their own abilities. That is 10 rounds per second. Most won't be able to make use of this, but some will. This is how semiautomatics should be balanced.
Also, the ScR does 11.75 rounds per second, not 12.5
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1474
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Posted - 2014.01.21 10:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:Honestly, I don't see why either of them even need to have such high rates of fire. 400 RPM on the TAR is not a high rate of fire. That's still almost seven rounds a second. A bit unnecessary for a semi-automatic rifle, don't you think? Many people can fire faster than that without the use of special hardware. Capping it too low can cause oversampling, and that is bad.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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thomas mak
STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder.
22
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Posted - 2014.01.21 14:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
the mother ******* tier of you gun and your skill level noob do you know it overheat at 15 shots for ADV?
Real tanker dies with their tanks!
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Yeeeuuuupppp
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
35
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Posted - 2014.01.21 16:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jeez what a trigger finger
Carving Hearts in People's Backs, One Day At A Time ~ Nova Knives
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Sgt Buttscratch
1358
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Posted - 2014.01.21 16:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
TAC AR needs either a small boost to rof, or it needs its range tuned up.
The burst is stiill effective if used right, the breach is borderline almost to the circumstantial regions of **** weapons
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
314
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Posted - 2014.01.21 17:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXeML0Zu9tQ&feature=youtu.be
Sure, the Scrambler Rifle has over-heat but when you can dish out 20 rounds before it over-heats, the factors are weighed. There aren't any rate of fire stipulations involved and while I do understand that the Scrambler Rifle is the predominant single fire weapon in Dust 514, with the Tac AR being a less powerful mimic of it, it certainly is the obvious choice when you compare the two.
Apart from being able to charge it up and hay-maker someone with a 2.9x damage shot which can pretty much strip the shields off of anything and even one-shot some less powerful suits, the sheer damage application from it's rate of fire is unparalleled.
In this video, it took the Tactical Assault Rifle about 5 seconds to fire off it's entire 18 round magazine and the Scrambler Rifle about 20 shots in 3 seconds (bear in mind this was on a sentinel suit with no bonus to heat build-up)
What this means is that an advanced Tactical Assault Rifle would do a total of 1,350 damage with 18 rounds at about 270 DPS. By comparison, an advanced Scrambler Rifle would do about 1,512 damage with 20 rounds at about 504 DPS.
The reason I bring this up is because a friend informed me that it's possible to use a modded controller and fire enough rounds to cause over-heat almost instantaneously, dealing out enough to damage to kill almost anything that you put your cross-hairs on in doing so. I don't know this for sure (I don't have a modded controller) I tried to fire it off as fast as I possibly could and, suffice to say, it's a fairly powerful weapon even without a modded controller.
In either case, I've always felt the Scrambler Rifle was just a little too powerful in one area or another when compared with the Tactical Assault Rifle and I personally feel this may be a factor in choosing between the two.
If anyone does have one and you have video recording equipment, throw up a video and let's see how it looks!
Useless thread. TAC AR NEVER meant to be equal of Scrambler Rifle and should not even EXIST anymore. SCR is the RACIAL tactical rifle : Supposed to be WAY more useful than the "gallente copy". Delete the TAC. Delete "assault" version of others rifles.
And SCR is dealing 20 less% of damage on Armor. So anyone that is tanky armor receive 20% of resistance which is HUUUUGE. I got a special news : Since the armor plates patch almost EVERYBODY is armor.
So the Bonus/Malus to shield/armor is already a "nerf" to SCr and Duvolle don't need a buff at all.
All rifles should be NERFED instead. |
Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
314
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Posted - 2014.01.21 17:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I kinda-- agree with the OP, let me explain.
The tac AR has a RPM of 400, giving it a RPS of 6.667
The ScR has a RPM of 705, giving it a RPS of 12.5 (about)
Now NO ONE can fire at 12.5 rounds per second without the assists of a turbo controller, and even 6.66 rounds per second is pushing it.
I do think that the RPM should be cut back to the same rate as the TAR for no other reason than to not give turbo users an advantage over normal players (or a larger advantage).
TLDR: Cut the ScR back to 400 RPM, no human can use faster firing than that anyway. 6.66 rounds is not pushing it. That's average. Most people can do that without issue. Some people are capable of 9-10 rounds per second. We should cap both of their their RoF at 600. That allows almost everyone to make the most out of their own abilities. That is 10 rounds per second. Most won't be able to make use of this, but some will. This is how semiautomatics should be balanced. Also, the ScR does 11.75 rounds per second, not 12.5
10 rounds per second is humanely possible but not while accuracy. (unless it's a CQB combat.) And at ADV it overheat in 15 shots : 10 shots per sec means you can shoot for 1.5 sec only. |
Ronan Elsword
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
126
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
The TAR is bad because CCP always goes above and beyond when they nerf things.
"Nice House you have here Gallente, you can just feel the Freedom."
-Looks in Closet-
"Dear God"
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
4694
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Posted - 2014.01.21 18:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXeML0Zu9tQ&feature=youtu.be
Sure, the Scrambler Rifle has over-heat but when you can dish out 20 rounds before it over-heats, the factors are weighed. There aren't any rate of fire stipulations involved and while I do understand that the Scrambler Rifle is the predominant single fire weapon in Dust 514, with the Tac AR being a less powerful mimic of it, it certainly is the obvious choice when you compare the two.
Apart from being able to charge it up and hay-maker someone with a 2.9x damage shot which can pretty much strip the shields off of anything and even one-shot some less powerful suits, the sheer damage application from it's rate of fire is unparalleled.
In this video, it took the Tactical Assault Rifle about 5 seconds to fire off it's entire 18 round magazine and the Scrambler Rifle about 20 shots in 3 seconds (bear in mind this was on a sentinel suit with no bonus to heat build-up)
What this means is that an advanced Tactical Assault Rifle would do a total of 1,350 damage with 18 rounds at about 270 DPS. By comparison, an advanced Scrambler Rifle would do about 1,512 damage with 20 rounds at about 504 DPS.
The reason I bring this up is because a friend informed me that it's possible to use a modded controller and fire enough rounds to cause over-heat almost instantaneously, dealing out enough to damage to kill almost anything that you put your cross-hairs on in doing so. I don't know this for sure (I don't have a modded controller) I tried to fire it off as fast as I possibly could and, suffice to say, it's a fairly powerful weapon even without a modded controller.
In either case, I've always felt the Scrambler Rifle was just a little too powerful in one area or another when compared with the Tactical Assault Rifle and I personally feel this may be a factor in choosing between the two.
If anyone does have one and you have video recording equipment, throw up a video and let's see how it looks! Useless thread. TAC AR NEVER meant to be equal of Scrambler Rifle and should not even EXIST anymore. SCR is the RACIAL tactical rifle : Supposed to be WAY more useful than the "gallente copy". Delete the TAC. Delete "assault" version of others rifles. And SCR is dealing 20 less% of damage on Armor. So anyone that is tanky armor receive 20% of resistance which is HUUUUGE. I got a special news : Since the armor plates patch almost EVERYBODY is armor. So the Bonus/Malus to shield/armor is already a "nerf" to SCr and Duvolle don't need a buff at all. All rifles should be NERFED instead.
The last thing we need in this game is less content.. While the TAC was never supposed to be "equal" to the scrambler rifle, it certainly was never supposed to be a black/white decision (let's face it, other than resource management, Scrambler Rifle trumps the TAC in every way).
And sure, the 20% less damage to armor is a thing but when you're dealing out that much damage it's not as heavily weighed a factor. More damage, longer range, ability to charge-up... Trust me, I run Gallente Assault and a Scrambler Rifle has no issue putting me down even with 700-800 armor; a single charged up shot will drop you down to about 250-300 area in some cases.
But it's not about any of that. It's about the general feel of the weapon and when the Tactical Assault Rifle feels like it can't even compete, there's no point to it. OPTIMALLY, I'd like to see a change in playstyle with the variation. The TAC doesn't have a charge-up so it should having higher damage dope rounds to compensate; focus more on the individual shots while the Scrambler has it's own unique feel. Comparing the two, that aspect is lacking.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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