DUST Search - request: remove kill to death ratio

Cross Atu wrote:

bogeyman m wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

N1ck Comeau wrote:

In a game where deaths are bad and every death is a lost of ISK. Why remove the only stat that allows us to see how well we are doing with that. Kills = isk. Deaths = -isk

So, if player A goes 10/15 in a BPO and kills all players wearing proto gear, hacks some objectives, etc

vs

Player B goes 10/3 killing a bunch of noobs in starter fits or STD gear, careful to stay with the pack and not push the lines.

Who did the better job?

Or Player C, a (proper) Logi, goes 0 kills, 5 assists and 3 deaths while keeping his/her squad (and others) mostly healthy throughout the match and helping their team win? The K/D ratio is irrelevant for their contribution.

Or Player D, an AVer, goes 1 kill, 3 assists and 5 deaths while keeping HAVs, LAVs and DSs at bay and helping his/her team win their match by protecting capture points? Again, the K/D ratio is irrelevant for their contribution.

Or Player E, a team focused Assault goes 20/25 but is picked up 22 times by his squad mates thus only losing 3 fits and costing the team only 3 clones.

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Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1868	Posted - 2014.01.23 06:24:00 - [31] - Quote KDR is a bad metric and it should feel bad. There are some very useful and valid things within KDR but the stat itself is so vague as to be nearly functionally useless. Break it apart into more effective stats and present those instead. Examples include but are not limited to; Tracking average TTK in the match. ISK lost per death ISK/AUR destroyed (in hostile assets) per death WP per death Friendly armor repped per death Revives per death Deaths per minute (match total) Other solid examples would be tracking clones lost per death (since a "death" is when you drop not when you bleed out) or an ISK efficency ratio i.e. ISK lost per ISK destroyed. At minimum KDR needs to be more sophisiticated and start to include factors like assists and clone loss so it is not purely an arbitrary "final shot = kill" and "drop = death even if you don't lose a single clone or fit". As it stands that stat is not only vague but also deceptive and for those who want to "game" the mechanics it's not that hard to pad a total either. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1868	Posted - 2014.01.23 06:28:00 - [32] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: In a game where deaths are bad and every death is a lost of ISK. Why remove the only stat that allows us to see how well we are doing with that. Kills = isk. Deaths = -isk So, if player A goes 10/15 in a BPO and kills all players wearing proto gear, hacks some objectives, etc vs Player B goes 10/3 killing a bunch of noobs in starter fits or STD gear, careful to stay with the pack and not push the lines. Who did the better job? Or Player C, a (proper) Logi, goes 0 kills, 5 assists and 3 deaths while keeping his/her squad (and others) mostly healthy throughout the match and helping their team win? The K/D ratio is irrelevant for their contribution. Or Player D, an AVer, goes 1 kill, 3 assists and 5 deaths while keeping HAVs, LAVs and DSs at bay and helping his/her team win their match by protecting capture points? Again, the K/D ratio is irrelevant for their contribution. Or Player E, a team focused Assault goes 20/25 but is picked up 22 times by his squad mates thus only losing 3 fits and costing the team only 3 clones. SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 495	Posted - 2014.01.23 07:30:00 - [33] - Quote Remove KDR, replace with isk efficiency chart. A comparison to the value of things you've destroyed vs the value of things you've lost.
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 17	Posted - 2014.01.23 08:10:00 - [34] - Quote hmm you do understand that dust is part of eve... ( the famed spreadsheet internet spaceships game ) right? KDR is a metric and a valued one. it tells you how you are doing as a whole and if your KDR is low its a good indicator that it's time to try a different tactic. If you play solo with no comms then well it's time to buy a microphone and turn the thing on. if you run head long into a bunch of enemies over and over, well lets try not doing that. yes I agree that the KDR can be discouraging.. I'm for sure not a super uber great player and I know that. Playing as a medic/logi in the game will not lead to a 5 to 1 KDR because you get killed first every time. but I know that I can help keep other players in my squad or on my team alive and fighting which helps with getting wins. and hey its just a number, try getting killed in EVE where your fitting for the ship and all the info for who killed you and how much it costs is out there for people to see. and ultimately.. it's just a game.
bogeyman m Learning Coalition College 45	Posted - 2014.01.23 11:28:00 - [35] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: In a game where deaths are bad and every death is a lost of ISK. Why remove the only stat that allows us to see how well we are doing with that. Kills = isk. Deaths = -isk So, if player A goes 10/15 in a BPO and kills all players wearing proto gear, hacks some objectives, etc vs Player B goes 10/3 killing a bunch of noobs in starter fits or STD gear, careful to stay with the pack and not push the lines. Who did the better job? Or Player C, a (proper) Logi, goes 0 kills, 5 assists and 3 deaths while keeping his/her squad (and others) mostly healthy throughout the match and helping their team win? The K/D ratio is irrelevant for their contribution. Or Player D, an AVer, goes 1 kill, 3 assists and 5 deaths while keeping HAVs, LAVs and DSs at bay and helping his/her team win their match by protecting capture points? Again, the K/D ratio is irrelevant for their contribution. Or Player E, a team focused Assault goes 20/25 but is picked up 22 times by his squad mates thus only losing 3 fits and costing the team only 3 clones. I bet Player C was hanging around Player E and they both got a lot of Warpoints.
Tinker Pi xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 0	Posted - 2014.04.12 17:10:00 - [36] - Quote (I know it's necro but just came across this and had to put in some input.) A little guess on what could be a good system. Keep the K/D Ratio. But add in these little things that would make skills, professionalism, and of course combat tactics more noticeable than a one set K/Dr. Also not hard to implement at all. Due note that these are only suggestions based on what I personally would look at in people's performances in order to see what they are good at, what they are bad at, and what they can be best for in a combat team. Assist/Death- The amount of kill assists you put into before death overall. Assistant- Your overall Assisted Kills. Revival/Death- What your average is for revives before you die overall. Total Revival- Your overall revivals Weapon Accuracy Average per match- Accrual Rating of how well you perform with a weapon type(s) In matches Weapon Accuracy Lifetime-Accrual Rating of your overall weapon type(s) Vehicle Time Overall (Spread between each type)- Shows how much time you've put into being a driver/tanker/pilot/gunner Vehicle Pilot DriveTime/Death- How long you usually last in a vehicle before being blown up. Vehicle Gunnery Time- Shows how long you spent behind the good ol "ma, deuce" Repair Vehicle Lifetime- How many overall points you've racked up from repairing vehicles. Repair Vehicle Points/Death- How many points of repairing vehicles before being headbutted by a heavy. Repair Armor Lifetime- How many overall points you've racked up by repairing your battle buddies. Repair Armor Points/Death- Your average points on repairing buddies before taking a rocket to the face. Team Lead Time Overall- How long you've spent as a leader in game of at least one other player. Team Lead Time/Death- How long you are normally alive before taking a plasma shell to the groin. Team Lead Point Overall- How many War Points you have earned overall as a leader. Team Lead Point PerMatch Average- The average of points you make during matches. Squaddie Time- Time you've spent as a squad member in a team with a leader. Squaddie Performer- Number of objectives or locations you went to after being ordered to get to them.(May require some minor configuration in script.) Squaddie Performance/ Death- Number of objectives you've completed before being sat on by Rosie Odonnel. Tactical Demo Overall- Number of total Kills you gain with remote explosives. Tactical Demo/Death- Number of people you blow up before you get ran over by a reindeer. AirTime- Amount of total time you've spent hard dropping withing 25meters of an enemy. Cloak Runner- Total amount of time you've put in to being a ghost. You sneaky bugger. Cloaked Assailant- Total Kills you've collected while being cloaked (Hard to pull off but hey, challenge people.) Long Distance Relationship- Total Kills over 100Meters away. Heavy Rain- Total number of times you've calling in an orbital bombardment. Blue Falcon(Aka Buddy F***er)- Total Damage Number of how much you've shot your battle buddies. Don't be a Bravo Foxtrot.
Cosgar 9180	Posted - 2014.04.12 17:18:00 - [37] - Quote Munin-Frey wrote: +1 it would solve many problems with the game but I'm sure CCP is afraid of losing one of the few things that keep some of their player base coming back to this game. They're completely alienating kb/m users, so what's your point? This community is the nail in Dust 514's coffin, waiting to be hammered in.
Smoky Fingers Red Star. EoN. 335	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:17:00 - [38] - Quote Might as well remove kill and death count because whoever has skilled at least one level in math can calculate their own kdr Flight stick user. Oh well :(
Tinker Pi xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 0	Posted - 2014.04.12 19:07:00 - [39] - Quote Keep the Kill/Death Ratio, that way the CoDtards who play Dust don't have to be butthurt over their 100/0sElitePnz0rz or whatever. Give us actual Tact Minded people more options on how to judge other players. Read my above example on what would be a good list of options for recording progression. It's simple, diverse, and covers almost everything. Hopefully by doing this you'd have more people play the game intelligently, instead of just running and gunning. Nothing against it (They make great cannon fodder so kill teams can move in.) but if this game was pointed towards gun runners, it wouldn't have such a diverse skill system in the first place.
Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 373	Posted - 2014.04.12 19:25:00 - [40] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: In a game where deaths are bad and every death is a lost of ISK. Why remove the only stat that allows us to see how well we are doing with that. Kills = isk. Deaths = -isk I would like to see isk lost per match on the end of match screen......just a thought Real heavies use lasers

Rusty Shallows 1500	Posted - 2014.04.12 20:01:00 - [41] - Quote Make everyone happy. Make career KDR optional. Under Options have a radio check box and if you deselect yours all the player viewable death data is removed. There have been many matches I would have played to win on my Main if not for KDR. It has prevented me from exploring different weapon options. I have cancelled out of matches if the Roster looks suspicious. In my career KDR is a negative influence. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Tinker Pi xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 0	Posted - 2014.04.12 20:08:00 - [42] - Quote The idea for ISK/Death or ISK/-ISK is a good idea as well, but would require a lot of tweaking and fine tuning with finacial gain/loss in Dust. I still say just have an "Everything ever data recorder" like my first post, but here is what ISK/-ISK would require. Isk/-Isk would only work if both was from respawning(Gear/Weapons), and calling in vehicles(Although I think they should add in ammo costs as well.). Along with proper earnings. If I spent lets say 100,000 isk somehow in a match, and earned 100,100 isk from a total score, I only made 100 isk. That would be a proper format as long as people had the ability to inspect other peoples wallet pace. The wallet pace would basically be what you earn/lose after each battle. A system like that would punish the fodder boys, but it would be seamless, practical, and show who is more efficient vs those who are not. Example Wallet Pace- I inspect Mr.McSpankster. His Wallet Pace log would look like this for a new character who just played her/his first match. 500,000 Startoff Isk. Battle1- Spent 63,910 isk. Earned 190,291 (500,000 - 63,910) + 190,291 = 626,381 A format like this would be harder to progress with unless you were smart about how you handled your match. To balance it out with AUR, players, have it so what items require ISK on top of the AUR and a higher amount. IE- My NEO Scout C/1-Series is 80AUR. Make it 80AUR+300,000ISK. Sure it's a little extra work to get to, but it would make it more challenging. If they took the idea to shove in ammo and ammo costs during matches, a AUR weapon should cost 1AUR per clip, an ISK only weapon would cost 128,570 per clip (Yes that is 128,570ISK to 1AUR). Ammo management. Sure you could base it off type and all that, but universal pricing ammo would make more sense as well because it levels out the playing field with a hard price. War isn't cheap anyways.


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