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The Attorney General
1839
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Logi Bro wrote:
Don't pretend for one second that 1.0-1.6 was as bad for tanks as 1.7 is currently for AV.
Lets see: 75m render range. I think that since infantry can see tanks at all times, they have a HUGE advantage in this regard. Didn't really matter when you could nitro your way to safety at the first hint of damage. Can infantry equip a nitro to gtfo in 1.7 when a blaster tank rolls up from invisible-land? Nope.Having weapons that could destroy you from outside that render range, in the time it took for you to activate your repper and hardeners. See above. Also, bullshit on the, "before you can activate hardeners and reps," part. I had a 3mil tanker alt in pre1.7, and I could easily trollolololl my way out when I started getting hit by forges/swarms.Slower than LLAV's so that any infantry man with even advanced grenades and advanced swarms(700k SP investment) could easily destroy any tank. I believe I already mentioned nitro, you were a bad tanker if didn't have one of those equipped at all times.LLAVs stronger than tanks to deliver those infantry right up on you to grenade you to death. You could have just rammed them and instakilled them, that's still a problem for LAVs even now.Plus we had the time where you couldn't recall, then we had the bugged turrets that wouldn't allow you to fire if you activated too many modules in a short amount of time. What, you mean you couldn't use the, "hide behind a wall, jump out, and recall," exploit to get away from AV? How sad.Does your gun pop you up in the air if you touch a wall with it? Ours did. A bug, not a gameplay mechanic. Obviously that is something that needed to be fixed.I can see how this seems bad for you right now, but you still have meaningful counters to tanks. Tanks had no counter to invisi swarms and forges. There was no counter to invisible turrets that would not draw no matter what you did. Any meaningful counters besides strapping REs to an LAV and ramming? Unless you consider having to spec into PRO AV in order to dent a MLT HAV a, "meaningful counter?"Tankers had it much worse than infantry has it now. No question. I beg to differ, back then, infantry were simply in hard to reach places. Now, tanks are in incredibly easy to reach places, but simply unkillable without the highest tier of AV.
Yeah, that just reads like someone who never tanked in PC.
So unless you had some experience tanking against people with properly skilled AV then your opinion isn't really valid. Considering that I have had a prof 5 forge toon since uprising started, I know exactly how easy it was to kill tanks in 1.0 -1.6. Because I was max skilled on both sides of the matter.
I still kill tanks within a couple of seconds of contact now. MLT, STD, doesn't matter. The worst that I will do is drive them off on fire. Once the forge gets its charge reduced to 1.6 levels, even more tanks will be popping with ease.
You know whats really funny is that there are so many shield tanks running around, that if have of the complainers just ran proto fluxes, those tanks mostly become one hitters.
But I guess using a grenade that doesn't track for you is too much work for the "skilled" infantry to use.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Rusty Shallows
845
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Logi Bro wrote:
Don't pretend for one second that 1.0-1.6 was as bad for tanks as 1.7 is currently for AV.
Lets see: 75m render range. I think that since infantry can see tanks at all times, they have a HUGE advantage in this regard. Having weapons that could destroy you from outside that render range, in the time it took for you to activate your repper and hardeners. Slower than LLAV's so that any infantry man with even advanced grenades and advanced swarms(700k SP investment) could easily destroy any tank. LLAVs stronger than tanks to deliver those infantry right up on you to grenade you to death. Plus we had the time where you couldn't recall, then we had the bugged turrets that wouldn't allow you to fire if you activated too many modules in a short amount of time. Does your gun pop you up in the air if you touch a wall with it? Ours did. I can see how this seems bad for you right now, but you still have meaningful counters to tanks. Tanks had no counter to invisi swarms and forges. There was no counter to invisible turrets that would not draw no matter what you did. Tankers had it much worse than infantry has it now. No question. You forget invisible swarms FG's that could out shoot your rep.Swarms that could 6-7 shot the best tanks and much more
Actually there was an Armor Tanked HAV fit that could solo an Ishukone Assault Forge (one Complex Damage Mod and Proficiency at 4) pre-1.7
Shield Tanks were the ones in a really bad spot because when I was paired with a proto swarm launcher my iFG could wear down the shields and soon as the Swarms did armor damage they were dead. Maneuvering was everything, if anyone tired repping I never saw a difference in the survival chances.
Newbie HAV TCs had it the worst since repping never even came into the picture. Three hits and they were dead. Getting kills on someone obviously learning to operate HAVs always felt terrible.
MCC Lounge Lizard
Forums > Game
Fix the game CCP
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1282
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Logi Bro wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Logi Bro wrote:
Don't pretend for one second that 1.0-1.6 was as bad for tanks as 1.7 is currently for AV.
Lets see: 75m render range. I think that since infantry can see tanks at all times, they have a HUGE advantage in this regard. Didn't really matter when you could nitro your way to safety at the first hint of damage. Can infantry equip a nitro to gtfo in 1.7 when a blaster tank rolls up from invisible-land? Nope.Having weapons that could destroy you from outside that render range, in the time it took for you to activate your repper and hardeners. See above. Also, bullshit on the, "before you can activate hardeners and reps," part. I had a 3mil tanker alt in pre1.7, and I could easily trollolololl my way out when I started getting hit by forges/swarms.Slower than LLAV's so that any infantry man with even advanced grenades and advanced swarms(700k SP investment) could easily destroy any tank. I believe I already mentioned nitro, you were a bad tanker if didn't have one of those equipped at all times.LLAVs stronger than tanks to deliver those infantry right up on you to grenade you to death. You could have just rammed them and instakilled them, that's still a problem for LAVs even now.Plus we had the time where you couldn't recall, then we had the bugged turrets that wouldn't allow you to fire if you activated too many modules in a short amount of time. What, you mean you couldn't use the, "hide behind a wall, jump out, and recall," exploit to get away from AV? How sad.Does your gun pop you up in the air if you touch a wall with it? Ours did. A bug, not a gameplay mechanic. Obviously that is something that needed to be fixed.I can see how this seems bad for you right now, but you still have meaningful counters to tanks. Tanks had no counter to invisi swarms and forges. There was no counter to invisible turrets that would not draw no matter what you did. Any meaningful counters besides strapping REs to an LAV and ramming? Unless you consider having to spec into PRO AV in order to dent a MLT HAV a, "meaningful counter?"Tankers had it much worse than infantry has it now. No question. I beg to differ, back then, infantry were simply in hard to reach places. Now, tanks are in incredibly easy to reach places, but simply unkillable without the highest tier of AV. Yeah, that just reads like someone who never tanked in PC. So unless you had some experience tanking against people with properly skilled AV then your opinion isn't really valid. Considering that I have had a prof 5 forge toon since uprising started, I know exactly how easy it was to kill tanks in 1.0 -1.6. Because I was max skilled on both sides of the matter. I still kill tanks within a couple of seconds of contact now. MLT, STD, doesn't matter. The worst that I will do is drive them off on fire. Once the forge gets its charge reduced to 1.6 levels, even more tanks will be popping with ease. You know whats really funny is that there are so many shield tanks running around, that if have of the complainers just ran proto fluxes, those tanks mostly become one hitters. But I guess using a grenade that doesn't track for you is too much work for the "skilled" infantry to use.
Cubs has a nasty forge gun he can make PC tanking a B*tch I got a tank down to 15 hp but died because of cubs relentless pounding. He should feel what AV is like from someone with real sp into it.
Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault
Forum warrior lvl 1
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Rusty Shallows
845
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:
However last NovemberDecember when seeing AV Nerfs and saying, "let's wait and see if this is part of the rebalancing," has become a major regret.
What does this mean? It was a part of the rebalancing. They didn't nerf AV and leave tanks as they were, they overhauled everything at once.
They said it was rebalancing. I even supported it as such. In the end it was just crazy nerfing and buffing. The current game title Tanks514 pretty much sums it up.
MCC Lounge Lizard
Forums > Game
Fix the game CCP
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The Attorney General
1844
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:
They said it was rebalancing. I even supported it as such. In the end it was just crazy nerfing and buffing. The current game title Tanks514 pretty much sums it up.
If you want to be literal, it was a rebalancing.
Beyond that, the swarm nerf went too far, the PLC was already screwed, and the Forge got left pretty usable, although it really needs the charge reduction to 1.6 levels to make it a serious threat to vehicles.
AV nades were made into a very potent supplemental AV option instead of a primary option, which is better for game balance.
The only reason why Tanks 514 is even being allowed is because people would rather follow the herd than do their own thing.
I can assure you that if I am playing on my heavy, there is no such thing as easy mode tanking. Too bad there are not many players with a similar mindset to protect the infantry who would rather die in a medium frame than spec heavy and destroy vehicles.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Regnier Feros
Immortal Guides
10
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
offtopic does anyone know how to calculate weapon dps?
Minmatar Women Do It Better
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The Attorney General
1846
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:offtopic does anyone know how to calculate weapon dps?
Roughly Rof * damage/60
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Toby Flenderson
research lab
193
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Logi Bro wrote:
Don't pretend for one second that 1.0-1.6 was as bad for tanks as 1.7 is currently for AV.
Lets see: 75m render range. I think that since infantry can see tanks at all times, they have a HUGE advantage in this regard. Having weapons that could destroy you from outside that render range, in the time it took for you to activate your repper and hardeners. Slower than LLAV's so that any infantry man with even advanced grenades and advanced swarms(700k SP investment) could easily destroy any tank. LLAVs stronger than tanks to deliver those infantry right up on you to grenade you to death. Plus we had the time where you couldn't recall, then we had the bugged turrets that wouldn't allow you to fire if you activated too many modules in a short amount of time. Does your gun pop you up in the air if you touch a wall with it? Ours did. I can see how this seems bad for you right now, but you still have meaningful counters to tanks. Tanks had no counter to invisi swarms and forges. There was no counter to invisible turrets that would not draw no matter what you did. Tankers had it much worse than infantry has it now. No question. You forget invisible swarms FG's that could out shoot your rep. Swarms that could 6-7 shot the best tanks and much more
It sounds pretty goofy to say 6-7 shot as if it's OP. It's like complaining that a MD can 6-7 almost any suit.
Also if you're continually being pelted by forges then you shouldn't be "ok" just because you activated rappers.
These problems just made using tanks difficult. Tanks now are virtually invincible to anything less than proto AV and can counter any AV with the push of a button. Tanks are able to just cruise in with multi-hardners/reppers and survive multiple infantry running full proto AV with DMs and the works.
It's currently cheaper to lose a tank than lose one of the 3-4 drop suits stacked enough to scratch it. AV has been reduced to "call in a MLT rail tank and hope you can catch the tanker off guard" or IAFG parties of 2-3.
At least in the old days tanks could counter these things through skill. The same can't be done by someone who has invested millions of SP into destroying tanks as long as they remember to activate their hardeners/reppers. |
Jason Pearson
4055
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
usuckatdust Vagheitan wrote:so much tank crying from both sides. so i guess ill put my own thoughts on it
infantry crys cause they cant do anything to tanks short of bringing out another tank.
tankers see it, and say how they got f'ed over in last builds. and now tankers say "learn to adapt, try new things"
i dont think duna had a problem with tanks in any build? so even before 1.7. tankers just needed "to adapt and learn how to use it" (obviously going to get lovely hate mail for saying that but w/e ill enjoy a good laugh at ur posts)
now, back to my thinking of how things should work.
i think it should be more like this.
-its called a heavy attack vehicle.
so i think you should buff it, make it more armor,shields w/e
but since its "heavy" make the speed same as before or even slower.
make the tanks super strong but slow, so if hes caught between a couple av'ers they could actually get a few rounds off without him turning on a speed boost and flying away.
which wont affect rails, but im to lazy to post about that
Have you ever seen Duna play outside of Ambush and without atleast three other tanks? And if Duna saw a proficient AVer, he would fly to a rooftop with a Forge Gun and the only way to get him down was with an Orbital, and good luck with that, try getting that 2500 when you spawn and die immediately to the Forge.
Duna doesn't play PC, he doesn't play Skirmish either, Ambush is a broken mode for Vehicles and remove them from that, watch Duna's KDR drop to around to 1, because unless he's spamming tanks in ambush, he's dying to the rest of us. So your post, a load of **** because you want to praise Duna for tank spam.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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