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Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition
348
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
I got into the closed Dust Beta in early may of 2012. I've seen alot in my time as a fan of this game. Even though I no longer spend money on it, I support its progress (especially if that progress starts to speed up) I don't play nearly as much (a guy can only stand so much Skirmish) but i'm stil a big believer in this game's potential.
Balance and Content are the keys to what will make this game GREAT. As players we've seen our share of "oops moments" like the current state of vehicles and Slayer Logis, Mario Kart 514, the Beginner Heavy, the Mass Driver of not so long ago, TAC AR, Early Swarms, The Uprising Flaylock and hell even Forge Sniping...
The CPM has shown their value to me by trying to warn CCP about the Flaylock during Fan Fest and more recently their help with Scouts, Heavies and the Cloak. These are only the things i'm aware of...I'm certain they've been at the forefront of other fixes as well. This is why an experienced, knowledgeable and balance-focused CPM is important. Imagine a world where swarms were still instant death to infantry and where snipers were shooting from a cloaked state. I often saw posts saying we needed a "Scout" or "Heavy" CPM when its pretty obvious all we've ever needed were hardcore gamers who want to see the game succeed that put balanced gameplay first and can anticipate potential issues. We can't allow this vote to come down to popularity contests, name recognition or giving the "cool kids" or popular pranksters our votes.
Hopefully soon current CPM members and new candidates will announce their candidacy for CPM One. In my mind I have a few standouts in the current group who I hold in extremely high regard. If they're running I intend on voting for them but also asking them a number of questions regarding who they endorse...I advise you to do the same. The CPM plays a big role in the development of Dust. We can't have voices up there with agendas that don't focus on the big picture.
Dust is at a critical stage of development and simply can't afford it.
Replication Veteran: On hiatus until we have 10 game modes, jets, all racial suits/wpns and EVE has a reason to care.
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Teilka Darkmist
18
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree with what you've said here. These are lessons eve players have learned through 8 CSM elections so far. Whilst some of them do have a personal bias towards a certain play style, it's the CSM's who are working to try an benefit the whole community that are generally the best. In Dust we have the opportunity of learning from the past mistakes of the CSM and we have their example to guide a model that works for dust players as well.
There are already people putting their names forwards for CPM in the cpm section of the forums (I forget exactly what it's called) and I urge people to go there, read about the potential candidates and their platforms and choose which ones you feel will best represent you to CCP. If there's no-one who does, and if you have the free time to devote to it, maybe consider putting your own name and platform forwards. At the very least you'll get your issues out there to be seen by other players.
'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1165
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
EVERYONE needs to do their part on the CPM election. A lot of people don't go to the forums, and it's going to be up to those who do to broadcast in-game to their corps and alliances just how crucial the CPM election will be, and urge every player possible to vote. Get everyone involved, and show CCP how important it is to have their player council listened to.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
306
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Posted - 2014.01.20 17:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bravo. Good post..dont see many of these here. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
301
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Posted - 2014.01.20 17:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
-claps- |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
226
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Posted - 2014.01.20 17:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Plenty of people who supported bad mechanics are claiming they will run for CPM.
Not on my watch...if it was left up to them LAVs would still be running wild. |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
843
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Posted - 2014.01.20 17:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's vitally important that we get as many players aware of these elections as possible.
While we don't know the details of the election process yet, we have the past CSM elections to be able make a wild stab of a guess.
With the lack of a subscription and account details of players, and the multiple nature of accounts on PS3 eligibility to vote is likely going to those charectors with a minimum of SP and/or WP.
For the SP I'd argue the total amount of possible passive (non boosted) earned in the lifetime of the toon plus an extra 50% of it, as proof that the player has been active on that account.
Example. A toon has been active with passive, unboosted SP gain for 365 days. I believe its one SP every 4 secs, 15 a minute. So 7,884,000 each year. Add 50% and for a 1 year old toon to be eligible to vote they need a minimum of 11,826,000 SP.
Using that figure you can work out how many a 6 month old toon would need. 5,913,000 in fact.
I'd also argue that a toon needs to be a minimum of 6 months old, prior to the announcement date of the election.
When it comes to CPM2, a 2 year old toon would need a minimum of 23,652,000 etc, etc....
This would ensure that only the active players could vote on such matters. If in a years time, you have two toons with 24m SP each, then frankly you deserve two votes!
I'd also say that STV (single transferable vote) should be the way to go as it's been very successful on CSM8.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
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Teilka Darkmist
18
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Posted - 2014.01.20 18:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:With the lack of a subscription and account details of players, and the multiple nature of accounts on PS3 eligibility to vote is likely going to those charectors with a minimum of SP and/or WP.
For the SP I'd argue the total amount of possible passive (non boosted) earned in the lifetime of the toon plus an extra 50% of it, as proof that the player has been active on that account.
Example. A toon has been active with passive, unboosted SP gain for 365 days. I believe its one SP every 4 secs, 15 a minute. So 7,884,000 each year. Add 50% and for a 1 year old toon to be eligible to vote they need a minimum of 11,826,000 SP.
Using that figure you can work out how many a 6 month old toon would need. 5,913,000 in fact.
I'd also argue that a toon needs to be a minimum of 6 months old, prior to the announcement date of the election.
When it comes to CPM2, a 2 year old toon would need a minimum of 23,652,000 etc, etc....
This would ensure that only the active players could vote on such matters. If in a years time, you have two toons with 24m SP each, then frankly you deserve two votes!
I have to respectfully disagree. It should be one account, one vote as it is for csm not linked to wp or sp at all. Eve has just as much opportunity for multiple accounts as dust has and considering that the monthly fee for eve can be paid for purely by making money in game and there are people who earn enough isk in a month on just one character that they could afford a plex for multiple accounts the argument that eve players pay a subscription and dust players don't is a non-issue or at least greatly reduced.
'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1165
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Posted - 2014.01.20 18:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:I have to respectfully disagree. It should be one account, one vote as it is for csm not linked to wp or sp at all. Eve has just as much opportunity for multiple accounts as dust has and considering that the monthly fee for eve can be paid for purely by making money in game and there are people who earn enough isk in a month on just one character that they could afford a plex for multiple accounts the argument that eve players pay a subscription and dust players don't is a non-issue or at least greatly reduced.
Even with PLEX, it's significant time investment to accomplish funding additional accounts. And through that PLEX, CCP was originally paid for it. Meaning each vote indicates an expenditure of money somewhere along the line. The cost of supporting accounts, be it ISK or real monies makes it prohibitive to stack voting. The amount of "voter fraud" would pale in comparison to the number of overall votes, and be generally negligible.
On the other hand, with DUST's smaller community, and the fact that you can spin up a new account every three minutes, it'd be extremely easy to overrun the voting system with fictitious votes and change the outcome of the election. Due to boosters and passive SP, I think a War Point gate is the most responsible measure, as it requires that you've actually played the game a certain amount.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Teilka Darkmist
18
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Posted - 2014.01.20 18:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:I have to respectfully disagree. It should be one account, one vote as it is for csm not linked to wp or sp at all. Eve has just as much opportunity for multiple accounts as dust has and considering that the monthly fee for eve can be paid for purely by making money in game and there are people who earn enough isk in a month on just one character that they could afford a plex for multiple accounts the argument that eve players pay a subscription and dust players don't is a non-issue or at least greatly reduced. Even with PLEX, it's significant time investment to accomplish funding additional accounts. And through that PLEX, CCP was originally paid for it. Meaning each vote indicates an expenditure of money somewhere along the line. The cost of supporting accounts, be it ISK or real monies makes it prohibitive to stack voting. The amount of "voter fraud" would pale in comparison to the number of overall votes, and be generally negligible. On the other hand, with DUST's smaller community, and the fact that you can spin up a new account every three minutes, it'd be extremely easy to overrun the voting system with fictitious votes and change the outcome of the election. Due to boosters and passive SP, I think a War Point gate is the most responsible measure, as it requires that you've actually played the game a certain amount.
A trader can potentially earn several billion isk a month whilst mostly logged off by putting buy and sell orders on the market. Yes they need some capital to start off, which does takes either a little time or some rl money through buying plexes. And there is some time spent online deciding what to buy and sell and managing the actual orders, but it doesn't have to be a significant amount of time.
As to the SP or WP limit for dust players. I've had a character since beta and, due to real life concerns, I haven't been able to play as much as I would have liked, also, due to my preffered playstyle of being a sniper my wp's per match is actually pretty low. Right now, my SP stands at just under 9.6 million and my wp total is just over 25k. What you're suggesting would likely deny me my vote due to factors mostly beyond my control.
I do agree that there should probably be a minimum time you've had an account to qualify to vote, I don't believe that trial account holders in eve get to vote for csm for example (I could be wrong there though). That would mean that spinning up a new account every three minutes is not a possible tactic and makes some sense in that an account less than maybe a few weeks old likely doesn't have the background knowledge of the game and it's issues to make an informed decision between the candidates.
'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
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DustMercsBlog
Galactic News Network
111
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Posted - 2014.01.20 19:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
we have it on good authority that the format is the same as they use in EvE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_system |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1165
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Posted - 2014.01.20 19:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:A trader can potentially earn several billion isk a month whilst mostly logged off by putting buy and sell orders on the market. Yes they need some capital to start off, which does takes either a little time or some rl money through buying plexes. And there is some time spent online deciding what to buy and sell and managing the actual orders, but it doesn't have to be a significant amount of time.
It would cost an exorbitant amount of money, either in-game or out-of-game, to make a meaningful dent on a CSM election. As in, the richest players in the game unloading all of their assets might not be enough.
Teilka Darkmist wrote:As to the SP or WP limit for dust players. I've had a character since beta and, due to real life concerns, I haven't been able to play as much as I would have liked, also, due to my preffered playstyle of being a sniper my wp's per match is actually pretty low. Right now, my SP stands at just under 9.6 million and my wp total is just over 25k. What you're suggesting would likely deny me my vote due to factors mostly beyond my control.
We don't know how high the bar might be set, but conceivably, if you don't meet a certain war point bar, you may not have the experience with the game to make an informed decision on who to vote for. I'm sure CCP will use a great deal of statistics and metrics we don't have access to to come up with where that bar is, and I'm sure they'll be trying to include as many people as possible.
Teilka Darkmist wrote:I do agree that there should probably be a minimum time you've had an account to qualify to vote, I don't believe that trial account holders in eve get to vote for csm for example (I could be wrong there though). That would mean that spinning up a new account every three minutes is not a possible tactic and makes some sense in that an account less than maybe a few weeks old likely doesn't have the background knowledge of the game and it's issues to make an informed decision between the candidates.
A significant number of players spun up anywhere from five to thirty different PSN accounts back when the game first started, knowing that accruing passive ISK would eventually make them usable. With the smaller number of voters participating on the CPM election, massive numbers of duplicate accounts made during open beta are enough to heavily slant a CPM vote. And since the election date isn't established yet, people could spend a day or two this week generating several hundred PSN accounts, and they would likely be old enough by election day to qualify by your metric.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
306
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Posted - 2014.01.20 19:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
so u guys are concerned about people rigging the election? |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1166
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Posted - 2014.01.20 20:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:so u guys are concerned about people rigging the election?
It is a longstanding tradition of New Eden that if it's possible to rig something, someone will inevitably try and rig it. Notice how half the corps in Planetary Conquest are using an exploit to lock districts and prevent having to defend their stuff.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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DustMercsBlog
Galactic News Network
111
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
will be interesting to see if something like that happens. |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
226
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm really looking forward to who is officially running for CPM. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
301
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
I dont think people will be familiar enough with the system to cheat this election. cpm2 maybe |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1166
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:I dont think people will be familiar enough with the system to cheat this election. cpm2 maybe
CSM elections have been going eight years. The players from the EVE side have experience. While this election, being the first for the DUST community, will be a little less predictable, CSM election math is so well nailed-down that people were able to pretty accurately Nate Silver-down who would be on the CSM8 before the votes were cast.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Tyjus Vacca
Valor Coalition
121
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
hahaha the goonz will all buy ps3s create accounts and the mittani will be cpm chairman. |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
226
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tyjus Vacca wrote:hahaha the goonz will all buy ps3s create accounts and the mittani will be cpm chairman.
I dont think theyre psycho enough 2 try to rig it....oh wait. this is the Gons we're talking about |
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1254
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tyjus Vacca wrote:hahaha the goonz will all buy ps3s create accounts and the mittani will be cpm chairman.
You realise you can run multiple accounts from the same PS3? And that you can set up a PSN account, and create a DUST character, who then begins accruing SP, from a PC, without needing a PS3 at all?
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
580
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote: Balance and Content are the keys to what will make this game GREAT. As players we've seen our share of "oops moments" like the current state of vehicles and Slayer Logis, Mario Kart 514, the Beginner Heavy, the Mass Driver of not so long ago, TAC AR, Early Swarms, The Uprising Flaylock and hell even Forge Sniping...
Warning, this post holds little relevance to the discussion.
You've mentioned alot of things, but how could you forget the Laser Lightshow just before Uprising?
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
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Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
301
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Tyjus Vacca wrote:hahaha the goonz will all buy ps3s create accounts and the mittani will be cpm chairman. You realise you can run multiple accounts from the same PS3? And that you can set up a PSN account, and create a DUST character, who then begins accruing SP, from a PC, without needing a PS3 at all?
wait, what? |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1645
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
The big question really isn't WHO would be a good CPM member, but rather WHAT makes a good CPM member. All too often people think "I have a lot of good ideas and opinions so I should be CPM!" but that's really not the whole picture.
Ideas are great, but it's not just YOUR ideas that matter. A good CPM is able to take in others ideas and filter the best handful of them, and then present it.
Opinions are great, but not if they're set in stone. Opinions should be firm and with conviction, but also fluid and open to change. A good CPM is able to change their mind, even if previously they felt strongly about it.
Community oriented isn't voicing your opinion, it's about hearing others'. CPM should support the community, raise the bar, and be supporting and informative. The people you should be nominating should the people not with their hand in the air asking for a nomination, but rather the people asking the right questions and thinking about the right things.
More often than not its the quiet one in the room doing all the thinking that needs to be done.
1.8 Sentinels
Damage Efficiency
Effective HP
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6513
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Posted - 2014.01.21 00:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
A common measuring stick or basic rule that I use when putting in my vote after years of voting for the CSM in Eve Online is that all candidates must be highly knowledgeable and have an eye for seeing the big picture.
For example.
Let's say for the sake of this argument that I'm running for the CPM1 (I'm NOT, so don't bother me on this). I have experience as a scout user mainly but my experience as a scout user can only take me so far. I don't know anything about heavies, assaults, logis, HAVs, LAVs, Dropships, PC, etc. But I do have extensive knowledge of how Eve Online works in regards to market dynamics, mining, a little bit of pvp, etc.
Then comes a competitor who is not a veteran scout but is a jack of all trades in Dust, has plenty of experience with PC, and has experience in Eve Online or has at least done extensive research on it to get an overall picture.
A smart voter would put his vote on the "jack of all trades" guy because he has at least broad experience in Dust so he has a much larger understanding of what needs to be done. His knowledge of Eve Online would just be icing on the cake because it means he will also take into account any impact certain features or ideas can have on both Eve and Dust if the feature or idea is extensive enough. Of course, my understanding of Eve can also grant the same level of understanding, but since the CPM is more focused on Dust than on Eve, it not going to matter all that much so the "Jack of all trades" guy still wins.
Of course, being jack of all trades and still a veteran with an understanding of Eve is a major plus to someone who's voting.
Overall, there should not be a popularity contest of any kind. Just because I'm a veteran scout doesn't entitle me to a seat in the CPM. Neither does being a veteran industrialist in Eve Online for the CSM. What should matter is the candidate's capacity to understand the big picture of the impact of the decisions he/she would make for Dust on behalf of the community while taking the needs of the community into consideration.
If the CPM consisted of nothing more than a mere popularity contest, then we risk ending up with players who might not know what they're doing as soon as they win a seat in the CPM and potentially harm Dust development with biased ideas and hidden agendas. The CSM in Eve Online has proven a few times already to fall victim to nefarious practices like this within the council. That said, we should learn from the mistakes of the CSM so that the CPM can be made better.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
227
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
^This. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1661
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Maken hit the nail on the head and it's basically what I was trying to get it.
As players, we see problems and imbalances every day. Things too weak, others too strong. And while the immediate fix for that problem may be apparent, the ripple effect it causes is often not. CPM need to be players who have worked to understand all aspects of the game in an out. They need to understand what one change will do to everything else. It is a difficult job and one most are not suited for.
Let us hope the right people are chosen.
1.8 Sentinels
Damage Efficiency
Effective HP
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Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
227
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
I can tell u right now no FOTM empty promisers will get my vote. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
305
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Posted - 2014.01.21 13:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Prius Vecht wrote:I can tell u right now no FOTM empty promisers will get my vote.
^this. |
Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition
369
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Posted - 2014.01.21 14:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Maken hit the nail on the head and it's basically what I was trying to get it.
As players, we see problems and imbalances every day. Things too weak, others too strong. And while the immediate fix for that problem may be apparent, the ripple effect it causes is often not. CPM need to be players who have worked to understand all aspects of the game in an out. They need to understand what one change will do to everything else. It is a difficult job and one most are not suited for.
Let us hope the right people are chosen.
Basically This.
This is the spirit of my post...one of the CPM recently made a post about "ignoring people making promises and look to who is doing CPM work right now." Its really a good point and needs to be taken into account.
Replication Veteran: On hiatus until we have 10 game modes, jets, all racial suits/wpns and EVE has a reason to care.
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