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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
10168
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Assault Dropships OP
The first problem is with HAVs. Their turrets lack the elevation to properly engage dropships, whatever they have now, they should add an additional 10-15%. I have no way of testing how fast the turret rotation is with max skills, but I imagine that coupled with slight movement of the tank would allow you to track most dropships. A slight buff to large turret rotation speed might be acceptable. I even think railguns could use a slight buff in damage, so long as everyone loses the ability to have more than one damage amplifier active at a time. Also on the topic of HAV vs Dropships, HAVs need to be able to fit their small turrets where they want. Right now I believe it's still bugged, forcing you to fit two turrets if you'd like to have a top turret.
The second problem is how the redline effects Dropships vs Railgun tank balance. There is a very simple solution to this that does very little to harm overall gameplay and is very simple to implement: Extend the fly space above the enemy redline. So, what you would do is keep the redline as-is for everything on the ground, but enemy dropships can fly a bit further into that redline to harass perched railtanks. These tanks could either roll even deeper into the redline, becoming a non factor to everything but the dropship, or it could stay and fight, when considering my proposed buffs.
Third is that swarm launchers are very little threat until completely maxed out, and even then, are pretty easy to avoid. They need a healthy buff to projectile speed, and possibly a very slight buff to damage. Increase lock on range from 175 to 250. Invisible swarms are still a thing, so the sooner that's fixed, you would be able to track where you're getting harassed from, and engage or avoid.
Plasma cannons need a healthy buff to direct damage. This will not effect its balance vs infantry, and will give it some sort of purpose against AV, being useful against hovering dropships. It could also stand to cause a bit more impact, it seems to do less than swarms in that respect.
Small missile turrets need splash radius dropped from 2.5 to 2.0, with a 10-15% nerf to splash damage. However, I argue that they need even faster projectile speed to be competitive against other agile dropships, while not harming the overall dropship vs anything else balance.
You might be able to sell me on a very minor decrease to forge gun charge time, but I feel that they are very close to balance right now.
Standard dropships need more of their mobility back. It's obnoxious how much they were nerfed, and while they should not be as agile or fast as an assault dropship, they should be better off then they are now. Without a slight buff to this, standard dropships will struggle against my proposed buffs.
So, that would make HAVs more of a persistent threat to dropships, while allowing dropships to engage perched redline HAVs, while further still providing that HAV with an escape route, which would remove that HAV as any form of meaningful threat to the battlefield, yet allowing it to remain a threat to the harassing dropship. These changes would also create a more hazardous flight zone, with swarms presenting a persistent threat that is still reasonable to engage. Dropship vs Dropship fights become more reliable as more shots are being landed, while infantry is given a little more breathing room thanks to small missile changes.
I feel these buffs could go a long way towards increasing the health of Dropship balance.
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Dropship Pilot
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Yoma Carrim
Situation Normal all fraked up
267
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
*blinks* Did I just read this from Dust Fiend? *blinks*
...yeah I did *Blinks* *quickly rereads post*
When you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck
Logi, Tanker, Heavy
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1650
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Whaaaat?
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Delta90212
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
163
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Are you kidding? It's definitely not OP especially when theres railgun tanks in the redline,
Fear The Tribes // Standings Minmatar 5 // Gallente 5
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
10168
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Delta90212 wrote:Are you kidding? It's definitely not OP especially when theres railgun tanks in the redline, Addressed in my OP
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Delta90212 wrote:Are you kidding? It's definitely not OP especially when theres railgun tanks in the redline,
I noticed you didn't mention AV at all.
I am the real Darken
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Sev Alcatraz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
412
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
We need flak guns for HAV OR AA TURRETS
closed beta vet-E3
MAXIMUM ARMOR
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Delta90212
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
163
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:Delta90212 wrote:Are you kidding? It's definitely not OP especially when theres railgun tanks in the redline, I noticed you didn't mention AV at all. Uhh AV doesn't really bother me as much as redline railguns really do.
Fear The Tribes // Standings Minmatar 5 // Gallente 5
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Vitharr Foebane
Living Like Larry Schwag
491
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
as a forge user i have no issue with dropships 2 comp dmg mods on my proto breach with lvl 4 prof WILL oneshot a non hardened non plated dropship and two shot any other dropship stupid enough to stick around for my recharge
Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3
That's no excuse though to slack off on releasing a heavy laser =.=
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Yoma Carrim
Situation Normal all fraked up
268
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:as a forge user i have no issue with dropships 2 comp dmg mods on my proto breach with lvl 4 prof WILL oneshot a non hardened non plated dropship and two shot any other dropship stupid enough to stick around for my recharge Your going to love the cal heavy aren't you?
When you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck
Logi, Tanker, Heavy
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
10168
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:as a forge user i have no issue with dropships 2 comp dmg mods on my proto breach with lvl 4 prof WILL oneshot a non hardened non plated dropship and two shot any other dropship stupid enough to stick around for my recharge Which is why I mention that the only buff I would ever even consider giving forge guns is a very minor buff to charge speed, but I personally think they're just about perfect right now.
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2724
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nope.
Give them a flack cannon small turret for air defense if they want it. Problem solved without making them OHK wonders.
Make them sacrifice something. Otherwise they become do-everything-fear-nothing with no need to depend upon anyone else for support. DUST is supposed to be team game, not one where you can buy a tank and do it all yourself. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
1636
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
the only reason i'm not specced into dropships is how easily i knock dropship out of the air with my rail gun.
dropships are amazingly good in the right hands but the only reason they aren't broken is because of rail turrets. |
Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Delta90212 wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Delta90212 wrote:Are you kidding? It's definitely not OP especially when theres railgun tanks in the redline, I noticed you didn't mention AV at all. Uhh AV doesn't really bother me as much as redline railguns really do.
I know. It should but DS are OP.
I am the real Darken
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2724
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Honestly, the hit-scan nature of the railgun coupled with its high alpha and RoF makes it a trump card for any aerial vehicle.
If the railgun had some real travel time it would have to predict target movement and that would inject some measure of skill. As it is you just wait for the reticle to turn red and pull the trigger. Boom- Dead.
The gun's high RoF and absolute stability mean repeat shots are a no brainer.
I would love to see travel time implemented for rail rounds. Distant targets would then require predictive leading and be a lot harder to hit.
Is anyone but a tanker complaining about the dropship being OP? Is anyone else worried in the least when they see one in match? I know that I'm not. |
Delta90212
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
164
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:Delta90212 wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Delta90212 wrote:Are you kidding? It's definitely not OP especially when theres railgun tanks in the redline, I noticed you didn't mention AV at all. Uhh AV doesn't really bother me as much as redline railguns really do. I know. It should but DS are OP. It's not the dropship that is OP its the small missiles though they require a few million SP to use before you're able to use the proto smalls i say they're doing their job
Fear The Tribes // Standings Minmatar 5 // Gallente 5
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Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Why not just make rails like vehicle mounted forge guns? I think it would balance AV and V.
honestly we would see all tankers crying about how underpowered their rails have become. When you deal with tankers its never a two way street.
I am the real Darken
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Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Delta90212 wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Delta90212 wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Delta90212 wrote:Are you kidding? It's definitely not OP especially when theres railgun tanks in the redline, I noticed you didn't mention AV at all. Uhh AV doesn't really bother me as much as redline railguns really do. I know. It should but DS are OP. It's not the dropship that is OP its the small missiles
you mean if they had no missiles they couldn't kill as effectively? I had never thought of that. How insightful.
I am the real Darken
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Vitharr Foebane
Living Like Larry Schwag
491
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yoma Carrim wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:as a forge user i have no issue with dropships 2 comp dmg mods on my proto breach with lvl 4 prof WILL oneshot a non hardened non plated dropship and two shot any other dropship stupid enough to stick around for my recharge Your going to love the cal heavy aren't you? < Amarr loyalist(though not as vocal true and others) I'm waiting on dat heavy laser and them scouts(hope they get a better bonus though)
Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3
That's no excuse though to slack off on releasing a heavy laser =.=
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Yoma Carrim
Situation Normal all fraked up
268
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:Why not just make rails like vehicle mounted forge guns? I think it would balance AV and V.
honestly we would see all tankers crying about how underpowered their rails have become. When you deal with tankers its never a two way street. After rail tanking trough 1.0 to 1.6 I can safely say if you let me hold a charge on my rail tank with the standard FG charge time I will love you forever. Think of the increase to accuracy
When you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck
Logi, Tanker, Heavy
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
442
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Whats so hard about driving a tank up a slight incline?
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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SteelDark Knight
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
218
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Honestly, the hit-scan nature of the railgun coupled with its high alpha and RoF makes it a trump card for any aerial vehicle.
If the railgun had some real travel time it would have to predict target movement and that would inject some measure of skill. As it is you just wait for the reticle to turn red and pull the trigger. Boom- Dead.
The gun's high RoF and absolute stability mean repeat shots are a no brainer.
I would love to see travel time implemented for rail rounds. Distant targets would then require predictive leading and be a lot harder to hit.
Is anyone but a tanker complaining about the dropship being OP? Is anyone else worried in the least when they see one in match? I know that I'm not.
Large Railguns are not hit scan. You do have to lead a fast moving target and there is travel time.
Just FYI |
Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Whats so hard about driving a tank up a slight incline?
finding the incline while exploding
I am the real Darken
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2725
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
The gunship is the tank's natural predator. They should fear it!
Think A-10 Warthog. It's old, slow, and ugly just like the dropship, but it's the mainstay for removing enemy vehicles from the battlefield. |
Midas Fool
Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising
330
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
HAHAHAHA wow what? ADS are finally sort of (barely) viable.
Maybe you just haven't played against coordinated forge gunners in a while. If I see you in game I will do my best to prove to you that your assault dropship is, in fact, not overpowered in any way.
Respect for flying them though...I won't even pull out a Viper to practice flying in the current rail tank environment.
+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...NO HOW WHY
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