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Cant we try and fix Snipers?

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Teilka Darkmist 1	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:01:00 - [1] - Quote I alternate between sniper and frontline on most maps. The main problem with being a long ranged sniper (I never hide behind the redline btw) is that most of the positions you have anything like a good vantage point of the battlefield are stupidly far out to the point where you can't see a damn thing (they could fix that by giving us a zoom like you would expect with a scope), are so close in that you're better off using an AR/RR/LR instead or you need to be able to use a dropship to get to them. Even on the rare maps when I use only a sniper setup, I can be fairly sure I'll die once or twice and my k/d ratio is usually more towards the d than the k. Someone mentioned that sniping's easy, just crouch, point and click. Try more like crouch, point click curse that they moved just slightly differently to how you expected, wait for a couple of seconds until you can shoot again and.... Oh look they're not in your scope anymore. And if you need to reload between shots forget about being able to find who you were aiming at again. Or, if you actually manage to hit them it's usually curse that you weren't aiming in the pixel or two where it registers as a headshot and watch their shields regenerate whilst they evade. That's a much harder kill than spray a load of bullets/light in the direction of the opponent and watch their hp melt away. I'm not saying that a sniper rifle should be a rapid fire weapon, just that it should be usable as an accurate, hard hitting weapon. Zooms on scopes could be for advanced or prototype only maybe with a greater level of zoom being on the more expensive rifles. It would be nice if we had a map where you could be effective as a sniper as well, rather than having only a very small view of the main areas of the map where the assault, logis and heavies spend most of their time. My playstyle may be different from yours, but it should no less valid as an option.
Teilka Darkmist 1	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:07:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Cat Merc wrote: With their range? They must never become any stronger than they are now until there are bullet physics. It's too easy to sit undetected and collect kills forever, and ever, and ever. Where's your blueberries (I know we can't trust each other) and squad mates? Or better yet just lolscan and find them so a sniper can kill them. Also as the grunts usually say- USE COVER- And all of that effort for a single unit. See? A sniper is disruptive enough without doing massive damage. If you want a damage increase, bullet physics must happen. Bullet physics are less of an issue over the range of a map than you would think if the bullet is travelling at around 2 - 2.5km/s
Teilka Darkmist 8	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:24:00 - [3] - Quote TheMixedArts wrote: They suck? You insane? Just yesterday our team was helpless as we got picked off 1 by 1 on domination, it was either cower behind the wall or die. I had 1200+hp and almost got two-shotted. We finally managed to shoo him away after some Logi's came to the rescue, but by then he was 12-0 and their MCC still had 60% shields So you're upset because a sniper was used effectively on a battlefield? Any idea what he or she was using as I can't two shot 1200+eHP with a sniper rifle? Cover, sprint and just putting some randomness into your movements are all pretty effective defenses against a sniper I've found, from both ends of the scope. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - Great way to encourage a community.
Teilka Darkmist 8	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:35:00 - [4] - Quote There is a fix for redline snipers. A sniper rifle. If they can hit you, you can hit them. A large percantage of my time when I'm in a sniper fit is sniper hunting to keep them off my teammates back. Of course I'm also more likely to be found near the opponents redline than my own when I'm sniping as well. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - Great way to encourage a community.
Teilka Darkmist 9	Posted - 2014.01.19 22:26:00 - [5] - Quote Keeriam Miray wrote: Sole Fenychs wrote: Headshots do not terminate clones? When the hell did this happen? When I get countersniped with a headshot, I generally lose my clone. Is there a bug with that? And if you get countersniped but not neadshoted, you do not lose your clone??? If you were COUNTERSNIPED and there is NO logi with needle around, you cannot be revived... If I'm countersniped and it's not a headshot then no, I don't lose my clone as I don't die. Like any other merc I likely lose my shield and some degree of armour. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - Great way to encourage a community.
Teilka Darkmist 9	Posted - 2014.01.19 22:43:00 - [6] - Quote Keeriam Miray wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: If I'm countersniped and it's not a headshot then no, I don't lose my clone as I don't die. Like any other merc I likely lose my shield and some degree of armour. My understanding of "countersniped" means death to you. I believe your "countersniped" is being hit by sniper rifle, while sitting in brick tanked proto med or heavy frame? To me countersniped is being shot at with a sniper rifle whilst I am sniping, otherwise it's just 'being sniped'. I also have never used a prototype medium or heavy frame. I play in either basic or advanced scout or medium dropsuits depending on what role I'm playing. When I survive being hit with a sniper rifle, I've been hit anywhere other than in the head which is mostly the same circumstances in which others survive being hit by a shot from my sniper rifle. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - Great way to encourage a community.
Teilka Darkmist 11	Posted - 2014.01.19 23:44:00 - [7] - Quote Keeriam Miray wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: I also have never used a prototype medium or heavy frame. my bad, didn't noticed your sig... My sig is referring to how long I've had an account on the forums and my frustration at having to wait five minutes before replying to posts. I've had a Dust character since the beta, I just haven't played all that much. calisk galern wrote: advice for being a good sniper 1) ignore heavies till everything else is dead 2) spec into armor you need about 1000 ehp with triage hives to be able to snipe from any useful high ground position, for any length of time, eventually you will have a couple dozen wannabe snipers annoying you like flies, and if you are truly unlucky they will just being a advanced drop ship and you will be ******. 3) learn to accept that if you aren't thee ONLY person sniping on your team, you are part of the reason your team is losing, no matter how good you are at sniping if their is 10 snipers your team is losing because of you and all of them. 4) here is a list of all the things you will need to be a decent sniper level sniper op, level 5 sniper prof, thales, a proto suit, 3 proto weapon mods, repair hives, and nano hives. 5) come to terms with the fact that a militia suit using a basic version of any of the main rifles can get an equal KDR as you with near to no skill points and they say sniper is the easy mode =/ 6) spec into a rifle fit, half the maps are now designed so that sniping is completely useless, on these maps you will need to fight from the ground unless you want to be useless. on the ones that are good for snipers expect to see 12 snipers on your team and you will likely be better off on the ground or just leaving.... 1) Doesn't apply when anyone can switch fits at any time. You're essentially saying ignore heavies if you're a sniper. 2) The alternative is to actually move sometimes during the match, that also makes you less likely to be spotted by an opposing sniper if you do it right. 3) Most of the time, I don't know what types of fits the rest of my team is using as I'm busy hunting for enemy targets. I do know that I've never been in a match where there's been more people sniping than are playing in other roles though. 2 - 4 snipers at any one time is not a detriment to the team and, as I pointed out in number 1 anyone can change their whenever they want to. 4) Out of what you list I've got level 5 sniper rifle proficiency and I've used nanohive (although not very often. I'm a fairly effective sniper without all the rest. 5) Agree. 6) Agree with the first part, disagree with the second. I have difficulty believing that any 16 man team would play as mostly snipers. We're a class that's mostly looked down on by other players, partly because our k/d ration is usually fairly small, partly because our usual warpoints are low and partly because they obviously weren't very good at it when/if they tried sniping so the quit early on and specialised at something else. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
Teilka Darkmist 16	Posted - 2014.01.20 14:01:00 - [8] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: really pretty much all of the dedicated snipers in the game are specing CR,AR, or AR snipers can pubstomp like everybody else but they just dont measure up to proto dropsuits the thales being only viable sniper in pc Really ? Ive never seen a dedicated sniper on the field.....they are pretty much still up there in their glass towers. If you see a dedicated sniper on the field, they're not doing their job. You should be dead or at least evading lng before you actually see them. To be fair though there are a lot less good snipers than there are ones who dropship to a vantage point, place a drop uplink and nanohive then hang there for the entire match. And of course the counter to that is another sniper. If you keep the area covered with one or two good snipers, they'll stop spawning there. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
Teilka Darkmist 17	Posted - 2014.01.20 15:43:00 - [9] - Quote calisk galern wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: really pretty much all of the dedicated snipers in the game are specing CR,AR, or AR snipers can pubstomp like everybody else but they just dont measure up to proto dropsuits the thales being only viable sniper in pc Really ? Ive never seen a dedicated sniper on the field.....they are pretty much still up there in their glass towers. If you see a dedicated sniper on the field, they're not doing their job. You should be dead or at least evading lng before you actually see them. To be fair though there are a lot less good snipers than there are ones who dropship to a vantage point, place a drop uplink and nanohive then hang there for the entire match. And of course the counter to that is another sniper. If you keep the area covered with one or two good snipers, they'll stop spawning there. forgot that point, never ever use an uplink, I hate snipers that use uplinks, it just result in 3 or 4 blue dots spawning on it with their own sniper rifles, then your team just lost 3 able bodies, and to top it off they will just give away that location. if you die you have little reason to go back their you will just die again, so why use an uplink. Agreed, I was trying to suggest that the good, dedicated snipers usually don't use this tactic. Personally the only way I'm going to spawn on one of those points is with an AR or RR fit then jump straight off. edit I'll reply to the other post when I get home as there are a few points need to clarify and my phone screen just isn't up to the job. Plus I'm supposed to be working. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
Teilka Darkmist 18	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:08:00 - [10] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: A lot of the issues snipers have comes down to their own selfish needs. Looking at K/D/R over W/L ratio, playing a solo role in a team player game. A mentality that AV has taken on now that tanks have some beef behind their hides. You want the kill shot, and are not satisfied unless those 50(60/72) points appear on your screen. Things that make you a good sniper with a team mentality: Finding placement that offers not just a good shooting vantage, but also offer a great place to watch and relay enemy movements...intel support. Moving with your squad to offer them support on enemy targets who have a good spot, this includes flanking beyond enemy lines. During gunfights, just hurting enemies can make a difference to your squad, A heavy may laugh off a 300point hit usually, but when he is trying to fight your squad off, 300HP disappearing is not a laughing matter, restricting the movement of logistics from being able to trail and heal. Shooting out uplinks, nanohives, triage hives and 2nd waves is beyond helpful to your team. Your squad may fight off the 1st fight well, but a trailing few coming in a few seconds later can be an issue for a squad repairing after a gunfight. CCP haven't really helped snipers want to perform a squad role, scanners have huge range, making working close a bad thing, your chevron gets you killed a lot, just because an enemy snipers reticle browsed across you, meaning nasty spots can be easily found. No system in which a sniper can tag an enemy up for his team to see. Or spot assist points. High HP snipers suits are the thing in dust these days, but try running a low profile, mobile version and work with a squad, it can be pretty fun and your squad will actually be happy with ya. Agreed, in my opinion a sniper shouldn't be getting huge numbers of kills and WP. In maps like we have right now, we're ideally suited to a more support role, whether that be taking out other snipers or applying our fairly high damage shots where they're needed to help the team out. I do have to point out though that 'working close' isn't really what a sniper is best suited to. Our rifles are one of the longest range weapons you can carry. That said I think cloaking has the potential to change is so we can be closer in, inside the built up area in the middle of the map more, it all depends on how it ends up working. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.

Teilka Darkmist 18	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:02:00 - [11] - Quote sira draco wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: We need a Light Frame, Marksman specialist suit. Something that utilizes sniper rifles better than the other suits(because right now none of the suits are geared towards them, which is good and bad in a way...). Maybe give it a better accuracy or help increase optimum range? I like this idea, I prefer the stealth scout sniper that runsa round the field but its not viable because i cant fit enough damage mods on the scout suit, I'm better off running around with a rail rifle, a sniper suit would be nice I think there's also a place for a medium range, low rate of fire, high damage rifle as well. Something that makes a marksman a viable alternative for the closer in game. Not as close as a shotgun of course, we already have the shotguns for that. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
Teilka Darkmist 24	Posted - 2014.01.21 13:19:00 - [12] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Snipers are easy to use and very low risk. Thus, low reward. snipers are one of the hardest weapons in the game to use ....... to what are you comparing it to ? Nova knives. Plasma Cannons. Laser Rifles. Shotguns. Scrambler Pistols. Tyjus Vacca doesn't know what he is talking about. I don't know about the others as I've never really use them but Laser rifles are almost 'face your enemy, pull the trigger, watch shields and armour melt away. That's much easier then 'crouch, aim very carefully for the head which is actully smaller than the dot in the scope, fire, pray the hit detection actually admits it's a hit and that the target didn't decide to randomly change direction or jump in the time between your brain tells your finger to pull the trigger and whatever control method you use registers the button press becaus by the time you can take another shot they 're out of scope even if you don't have to reload'z When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be near the opponents redline than own.
Teilka Darkmist 119	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:25:00 - [13] - Quote Akdhar Saif wrote: Just out of interest, when you dedicated snipers fight a battle, how many times do you die? And, How much ISK do you guys lose per battle? Twice in my last match, although one of those I had accidentally started off in a medium suit with a rail rifle rather than one of my sniper fits. No deaths at all in the match before. I think I may have actually turned a profit on each of those two matches. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Teilka Darkmist 119	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:46:00 - [14] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: really pretty much all of the dedicated snipers in the game are specing CR,AR, or AR snipers can pubstomp like everybody else but they just dont measure up to proto dropsuits the thales being only viable sniper in pc I manage quite well with an Ishukone or Charge SR. I do have a few levels in RR and AR, but they're from the days I used a controller and sniping was a lot harder (for me at least.) When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Teilka Darkmist 120	Posted - 2014.01.27 23:00:00 - [15] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: TBH most snipers are just speccing into RR. Its got the most range of all light weapons except the sniper and although not as powerful as a sniper has more damage than the other light weapons. on top of that its great in CQC. It's not really being a sniper if you're using a rapid fire weapon though, is it? My RR I use for medium to close range personally When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Teilka Darkmist 120	Posted - 2014.01.27 23:12:00 - [16] - Quote Aramis Madrigal wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Snipers are easy to use and very low risk. Thus, low reward. The thing that makes sniper rifles one of my favorite weapon types is that they're actually as high-risk as you want them to me; and the higher risk, the higher the reward also gets. Sure, you could sit in the redline and go 2-0 every battle, or you could maneuver constantly and go 10-5. The close support sniper is so much more enjoyable than redlining. In the 130-200m you can hit more consistently, move to where the action is and you find so many more targets to soften up and/or finish off. I love it when someone thinks they're close enough to ADS me and I put three shots in their face. In addition, at the ranges cited, there is no issue of rendering or insufficient zoom. Hit detection issues still arise, but those occur no matter the range. Moreover, baiting people into <10m range so you can bring out the SMG becomes an art form. It is also fairly easy to countersnipe all the heavily contrasted long range snipers sitting on the tops of hills when you're working from ground level. In summary, the close support sniper is tons of fun...but if you're good at it, you're better off using a RR and working at your optimal range. It's a bit like being good at counting cards while playing black jack. If you have the apptitude, you might as well just play poker. I apologize if my hastily drawn conclusions have upset anyone... -Aramis I really think we need a new weapon for the closer range sharpshooting. They could call it a Marksman Rifle (or something like that) make it medium range, high damage and low Rate of fire. Maybe make it a Minmatar projectile type weapon. That said. All the racial suits, module and vehicles and player market before they add something like this. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Teilka Darkmist 124	Posted - 2014.01.28 08:09:00 - [17] - Quote Echoist wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: Aramis Madrigal wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Snipers are easy to use and very low risk. Thus, low reward. The thing that makes sniper rifles one of my favorite weapon types is that they're actually as high-risk as you want them to me; and the higher risk, the higher the reward also gets. Sure, you could sit in the redline and go 2-0 every battle, or you could maneuver constantly and go 10-5. The close support sniper is so much more enjoyable than redlining. In the 130-200m you can hit more consistently, move to where the action is and you find so many more targets to soften up and/or finish off. I love it when someone thinks they're close enough to ADS me and I put three shots in their face. In addition, at the ranges cited, there is no issue of rendering or insufficient zoom. Hit detection issues still arise, but those occur no matter the range. Moreover, baiting people into <10m range so you can bring out the SMG becomes an art form. It is also fairly easy to countersnipe all the heavily contrasted long range snipers sitting on the tops of hills when you're working from ground level. In summary, the close support sniper is tons of fun...but if you're good at it, you're better off using a RR and working at your optimal range. It's a bit like being good at counting cards while playing black jack. If you have the apptitude, you might as well just play poker. I apologize if my hastily drawn conclusions have upset anyone... -Aramis I really think we need a new weapon for the closer range sharpshooting. They could call it a Marksman Rifle (or something like that) make it medium range, high damage and low Rate of fire. Maybe make it a Minmatar projectile type weapon. That said. All the racial suits, module and vehicles and player market before they add something like this. I'm hoping that the either the gallente or minmatar will be the closer ranged snipers. Mostly cause I'm weird like that and suck at both super long range and tight CQC battles. Mostly the reason why I love the laser so much fits me like a glove. Fair point, the Marksman rifle could be one or two races' version of the sniper rifle. I hadn't thought of that. My only problem is I'm specced into Gallente scout suits and I prefer the long range version of sniping, but I know that if they do something like this, it will be right based on the lore, as it should be. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Teilka Darkmist 126	Posted - 2014.01.28 11:02:00 - [18] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: just take them out the game there's nothing more useless than snipers on a team. Actually, snipers excell at point defense, as long as there's a good vantage point. Which means the none snipers can take objectives and concentrate on majorly depleting the opponents clone reserves. For a good, well played sniper, it's not about killcount, kdr or how many wp you can make. It's about supporting the team to win. Also, I do just fine without an officer rifle. The Ishukone in the advanced section can take down anything less armoured than a heavy pretty quickly when used right and a charge can ohk most suits except heavies. Those you don't kill outright, go running for cover most of the time. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Teilka Darkmist 127	Posted - 2014.01.28 12:23:00 - [19] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: just take them out the game there's nothing more useless than snipers on a team. Actually, snipers excell at point defense, as long as there's a good vantage point. Which means the none snipers can take objectives and concentrate on majorly depleting the opponents clone reserves. For a good, well played sniper, it's not about killcount, kdr or how many wp you can make. It's about supporting the team to win. Also, I do just fine without an officer rifle. The Ishukone in the advanced section can take down anything less armoured than a heavy pretty quickly when used right and a charge can ohk most suits except heavies. Those you don't kill outright, go running for cover most of the time. see in a gamemode were you have to hack letters and kill a lot of people to win then whats the point of snipers. Im not saying its not fun to snip but a lot of players are hurting there team by doing it. Pont defense means we're keeping the other team off the letters that need to be hacked, letting th others on the team concentrate on doing the actual hacking when neccessary and engaging head on. Or, to put it another way, we're sacrificing our kill count and WP collection entirely for the sake of the team. That's called helping, not hurting. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Teilka Darkmist 129	Posted - 2014.01.28 13:03:00 - [20] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: they really suck now wrong. Snipers do not suck. The real problem is: Suits are moving faster have higher ehp map design blocks most of the clear shots snipers had before. This is what is making snipers less effective than what they were before. The real problem in balancing snipers is that those 3 points I mentioned where factors CCP implemented a few updates ago to balance snipers out because before snipers could get on roofs, other high structures and the MCC and defend objects from across the map with no repercussion. Literally, there was no way to counter snipers without another sniper. On top of that objectives were too easy to defend as snipers could easily shoot right into them and get easy head shots on non-moving targets. either way sniping was way too easy. since all you had to do was stare at an objective long enough. The object flashes when someone is taking it anyway. In ambush, sniping was a little more complex but still very easy for the aforementioned reasons. CCP's solution to snipers has always been map design and EHP increases, more so the former than the later. So the weapon itself has never received a direct nerf. I.e. skirmish 1.0 the entire mountain was moved. With this in mind. How snipers can truely be balanced without becoming Over powered an issue that must consider many variables. they have crappy hit-detection and DPS and therefore suck Snipers don't need damage per second. We're not run and gunners, we're slow, methodical hunter-killers. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.