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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1364
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Posted - 2014.01.27 21:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tyjus Vacca wrote:they really suck now
wrong. Snipers do not suck. The real problem is:
- Suits are moving faster
- have higher ehp
- map design blocks most of the clear shots snipers had before.
This is what is making snipers less effective than what they were before.
The real problem in balancing snipers is that those 3 points I mentioned where factors CCP implemented a few updates ago to balance snipers out because before snipers could get on roofs, other high structures and the MCC and defend objects from across the map with no repercussion.
Literally, there was no way to counter snipers without another sniper. On top of that objectives were too easy to defend as snipers could easily shoot right into them and get easy head shots on non-moving targets. either way sniping was way too easy. since all you had to do was stare at an objective long enough. The object flashes when someone is taking it anyway. In ambush, sniping was a little more complex but still very easy for the aforementioned reasons.
CCP's solution to snipers has always been map design and EHP increases, more so the former than the later. So the weapon itself has never received a direct nerf. I.e. skirmish 1.0 the entire mountain was moved.
With this in mind. How snipers can truely be balanced without becoming Over powered an issue that must consider many variables.
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1364
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Posted - 2014.01.27 21:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
KayDidYue wrote:Akdhar Saif wrote:Just out of interest, when you dedicated snipers fight a battle, how many times do you die? And, How much ISK do you guys lose per battle? I will admit we (experienced snipers) do not die as often as those that go into the fray... BUT for the dedicated sniper, we get less SP and less ISK for our dedication and patience. With the new maps, there are many times where we can only get a very few kills. Plus, if you use the current specs on say the Line Harvest map for an example, you have used the last shot in your clip and right then a super heavy (one that moves very slow) comes out to cross the road from A going to B, you hit reload for swapping out your clip, they are already almost across the road and by the time you scope in and the sway has stopped, they have made it safely behind an obstacle. I find it very interesting that we are the most hated, as we may be able to kill one person more than once during a battle, where someone else with an assault (or some other weapon) can kill you four or five times (or even more) and you do not have the hate for them.
The reason for your last statement is simple. With the assault guy (which they do hate very much) they feel they could have stood a chance and lost a fair (to a degree) engagement where they saw the enemy and could return fire.
With a sniper sometimes all you know is his name. an even if you do know his location, he is so far away you can't fight back even if you wanted to. This is what irrates them. Even in RL armies snipers (of the opposing faction of course) are hated.
Just look at it this way, people on your team love you (when you save their lives by killing an approaching enemy while they have low heath. If you just finish off a guy they are already going to kill they hate you even if your on their team...lol). If your on the enemy team they will hate you.
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1364
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Posted - 2014.01.27 21:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
excillon wrote:I agree with a lot of the ops list. I disagree with the clip increase though. What should be banned IMO is heavy snipers. Its kind of gank having a sniper with 1400 hp.
The hit detection has suffured and zoom is needed. I do believe however that a headshot should be a OHK regardless of suit class.
Why not be a heavy sniper. the promoted it in their E3 video. Your skills will help you regardless of the suit.
But in 1.8 the cloacking device will help out scouts alot.
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1365
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Posted - 2014.01.27 22:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Akdhar Saif wrote:Just out of interest, when you dedicated snipers fight a battle, how many times do you die? And, How much ISK do you guys lose per battle? Twice in my last match, although one of those I had accidentally started off in a medium suit with a rail rifle rather than one of my sniper fits. No deaths at all in the match before. I think I may have actually turned a profit on each of those two matches. D legendary hero wrote:excillon wrote:I agree with a lot of the ops list. I disagree with the clip increase though. What should be banned IMO is heavy snipers. Its kind of gank having a sniper with 1400 hp.
The hit detection has suffured and zoom is needed. I do believe however that a headshot should be a OHK regardless of suit class. Why not be a heavy sniper. the promoted it in their E3 video. Your skills will help you regardless of the suit. But in 1.8 the cloacking device will help out scouts alot. It's a personal thing I know, but a heavy sniper just feels wrong to me. I'm pretty sure I've only got one Medium suit sniper fit made up at the moment and that was more for an experiment than for anything I really use. To me a sniper should be scout suits. Sure there's less eHP but chances are it's not going to make much of a difference if someone does find you. At best you have a sidearm to protect yourself at close range and a rapid fire light weapon is going to take you apart faster than you can kill them. Scout suits give you a speed bonus, to help moving from vantage point to vantage point to make it harder for someone to pin down your location and, with 1.8, the bonuses to signal dampening just makes it harder for you to be scanned down.
^^this is true sniping. A good sniper always changes location.
the snipers motto "one down, move around".
In a truely balanced game (for snipers) all sniper locations would ample BUT easily accessible.
this would force snipers to move around and change positions but at the same time give them many locations to choose from. In this why they are partially protected by both their location and position being unknown.
Don;t forget that active scanners have done alot to kill snipers. 1/2 of a sniper's defense is the enemy not knowing where he is, the other 1/2 is the distance from the enemy. Since scanners can pick them up easier and most good sniping locations are close ot combat snipers have lost their only defensive factors.
To remedy this, snipers need more locations to snipe from. Scout suits need a little more defense against scanners (not too much then we would never see them). These locations must be easily accessible. why? inaccessible locations make snipers all but invinciible and promote heavy sniper camping...
If they are easier to access heavies would get killed more often, forcing snipers to move to new locations more frequently, this will cause the public to choose sniper scout over sniper heavy as sniper scout can move betwen locations faster undetected.
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1365
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Posted - 2014.01.27 22:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
TBH most snipers are just speccing into RR. Its got the most range of all light weapons except the sniper and although not as powerful as a sniper has more damage than the other light weapons. on top of that its great in CQC.
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