DUST Search - To ALL SCOUTS and CCP - AMARR vs GALLENTE Scouts

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

Magnus Amadeuss wrote:

So I m pretty convinced that some people in this thread either ;

a) run minnie scouts and can't wait to become OMGWTFPWNAGE

or

b) have a grudge against amarr stuff

To not see how completely horrible the amarrian bonus is (i.e. less than a militia module worth) is to be a bald face liar.

To not be able to see how 5 modules worth of bonuses (i.e. 3 cmplx damage mods, 1 cmplx code breaker and 1 standard code breaker) is completely broken is to be a liar as well.

It has been shown over and over again, in relative and quantitative terms how the scouts are currently unbalanced. This part of the discussion is OVER.

CCP: I believe these values are basically fair:

Minmatar- +2% sidearm damage per lvl (comes out to 1 free complex dmg mod)
+3% hacking speed per lvl (comes out to an advance dmod)
(the inate +5% hacking speed bonus then is the basic mod)

Gallente: are fine, leave them alone

Caldari: +5% dropsuit scan rdius per lvl (unchanged, basic mod equivalent)
+ 7% scan precision per lvl (complex and adv)

Amarr : + 20% stamina/stamina recovery per lvl (makes 1 complex module)
??? +17 armor HP/lvl (this would make 1 basic and 1 adv ferroscale)

This makes the minnie scout the infiltrator, the gallente scout the spy, the caldari scout the recon, and the amarrian scout the front-line scout.

Im stealing that bonus for my OP.....

BTW,dont forget the GAllentes ALSO have an Enhanced Armor repair Module INCLUDED..... ;)

While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.


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Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 342	Posted - 2014.01.17 22:48:00 - [1] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Please keep stamina differences in mind. This is hugely significant. Agreed. On paper all this might not seem like much but you'll be running for ~28 seconds innately and it'll take you 5 seconds to refill that pool. I don't think you guys are taking into consideration how useful running and jumping for a near infinite amount of time with a complex regulator will be. Likewise, I don't think anyone is considering the actual values of standard, enhanced, and complex cardiac regulators and how easy it would be to mimic the Amarr scout. The Amarr scout bonus isn't even as good as a standard cardiac regulator, have you considered that? I wrote this up already but figured it fit here very nicely In order for the minmatar scout to match the amarrian scout stat-wise: 1 proto ferroscale plate 1 militia green pill Now the minnie scount has more speed, stamina, stamina regen, hacking speed, strafing, jumping, and more HP, oh and 4 free high-slots. In order for the amarr suit to attempt to match the minmatr suit: 1 complex code breaker 1 basic code breaker 3 complex damage mods (can't fit anymore than 2 anyway) 1 enhanced kincat Now the amarrian suit has comparible sprint speed (slower strafe/lower jumping) comparible hacking speed, and can't match the damage output due to not being able to fit enough damage mods, oh and 1 free low-slot. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 344	Posted - 2014.01.17 23:04:00 - [2] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: @aero just did the math I'm pretty sure it's balanced around regulators and not meant to be equipped without it just like the minmatar needs to equip either a codebreaker or knives to be very good at either of those things. A minmatar (seconds highest stamina)with a complex regulator will run for about 42 seconds requiring 14 cpu and 8 pg. An amar with an enhanced will run ~55 seconds and 9 cpu and 5 cpu. To catch an Amarr scout with one complex regulator (14 cpu/8 pg ~59 seconds) a minmatar would have to equip 2 complex regulators (28 cpu/16 pg ~84 seconds). Say you wanted to put two complex regulators (28 cpu/16 pg ~118 seconds). A gallente (the only one other suit that has enough low slots) would require 3 complex regulators requiring (42 cpu/24 pg ~160 seconds straight). If you put three on... well nobody is ever going to catch you. To make use of the bonus you have to equip a regulator like a minmatar has to equip a knife or a code breaker to really get use of it's bonuses. This is not very good reasoning. The simpliest way to analyze the bonuses is with using modules, as modules effect the same exact stats. The minmatar hacking bonus (5% per lvl nd then the extra 5% inate bonus over other scouts) equates to 1 complex and 1 basic code breaker. This is 2 modules that any suit would have to fit just to catch up to the hacking bonus. The minmatar suit also gets 5% per lvl to nova knife damage. This is worth any other suit equipping 3 complex sidearm damage mods. This is 3 modules any suit would have to fit just to catch up to the nova knife bonus. Now if you look at the amarrian bonus. You would need to fit 1 militia cardiac regulator to not only catch up, but surpass (by double in the case of stamina recovery). Using this knowledge, we can clearly say that the minmatar bonuses are worth 5 modules, the amarrian scout bonus is not even worth 1. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 348	Posted - 2014.01.17 23:49:00 - [3] - Quote So I m pretty convinced that some people in this thread either ; a) run minnie scouts and can't wait to become OMGWTFPWNAGE or b) have a grudge against amarr stuff To not see how completely horrible the amarrian bonus is (i.e. less than a militia module worth) is to be a bald face liar. To not be able to see how 5 modules worth of bonuses (i.e. 3 cmplx damage mods, 1 cmplx code breaker and 1 standard code breaker) is completely broken is to be a liar as well. It has been shown over and over again, in relative and quantitative terms how the scouts are currently unbalanced. This part of the discussion is OVER. CCP: I believe these values are basically fair: Minmatar- +2% sidearm damage per lvl (comes out to 1 free complex dmg mod) +3% hacking speed per lvl (comes out to an advance dmod) (the inate +5% hacking speed bonus then is the basic mod) Gallente: are fine, leave them alone Caldari: +5% dropsuit scan rdius per lvl (unchanged, basic mod equivalent) + 7% scan precision per lvl (complex and adv) Amarr : + 20% stamina/stamina recovery per lvl (makes 1 complex module) ??? +17 armor HP/lvl (this would make 1 basic and 1 adv ferroscale) This makes the minnie scout the infiltrator, the gallente scout the spy, the caldari scout the recon, and the amarrian scout the front-line scout. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 348	Posted - 2014.01.17 23:57:00 - [4] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: So I m pretty convinced that some people in this thread either ; a) run minnie scouts and can't wait to become OMGWTFPWNAGE or b) have a grudge against amarr stuff To not see how completely horrible the amarrian bonus is (i.e. less than a militia module worth) is to be a bald face liar. To not be able to see how 5 modules worth of bonuses (i.e. 3 cmplx damage mods, 1 cmplx code breaker and 1 standard code breaker) is completely broken is to be a liar as well. It has been shown over and over again, in relative and quantitative terms how the scouts are currently unbalanced. This part of the discussion is OVER. CCP: I believe these values are basically fair: Minmatar- +2% sidearm damage per lvl (comes out to 1 free complex dmg mod) +3% hacking speed per lvl (comes out to an advance dmod) (the inate +5% hacking speed bonus then is the basic mod) Gallente: are fine, leave them alone Caldari: +5% dropsuit scan rdius per lvl (unchanged, basic mod equivalent) + 7% scan precision per lvl (complex and adv) Amarr : + 20% stamina/stamina recovery per lvl (makes 1 complex module) ??? +17 armor HP/lvl (this would make 1 basic and 1 adv ferroscale) This makes the minnie scout the infiltrator, the gallente scout the spy, the caldari scout the recon, and the amarrian scout the front-line scout. Im stealing that bonus for my OP..... BTW,dont forget the GAllentes ALSO have an Enhanced Armor repair Module INCLUDED..... ;) oh I calculated for it The gallente have 1 complex mod (25% dampner) 1 enhanced mod (3 hp/sec) and 1 basic mod (25% scan radius) worth of bonuses, just like everyone else. If you look, I also increased the caldari scan precision to 7% per level to make it also equivelent to 1 complex and one enhanced mod. This would actually allow them to see all but the gallente scout without additional mods passively. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 349	Posted - 2014.01.18 00:05:00 - [5] - Quote GRIM GEAR wrote: I just want to say I have lost count of how many times I have died as a result of running out of stamina while scouting. To be fair the Amarrian scout bonus is a little lack luster though KING CHECKMATE would you prefer to have the Nova Knives bonus on you're Amarr scout suit? Because I don't mind using the Amarr scout suit over the Minmatar scout suit if it has 5% added to Nova Knive damage per level. Infact according to you the current stamina bonus is useless let's trade the useless Amarr scout suit stamina bonus with the OVER POWERED Minmatar scout suit Nova Knives bonus. Would that make you happy no? I didn't think so. I guess nobody knows how to read a thread before they post in it do they? Minnie bonuses are worth 5 modules, the amarr bonus is not even worth one* *seriously, you can not find a module that gives you this small of a bonus to stamina/recovery in the game. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.