I kinda just want the 25% to PD back for all scouts or just give the cloak a lore description saying why scout could use it better then any other suit.

Please keep stamina differences in mind. This is hugely significant.

1- 30 HP is the difference between Gallente and Minmatar and when you max out your armor skill you're going to have a hayday. My GalScout armor is at 162 innate think about how much it will be on an Amarr

2-Also the suit is not gimped by lack of slots which I thought was customary amongst Amarr suits so there's something.

3-But also think about the fitting requirements of a Basic Cardiac Regulator versus those of Profile Dampener + Range Amp. they cost nothing practically while you will have a severe stamina buff that although is less than a module, is given FREE.

I'm not saying certain other aspects don't seem unnappealing but well, I think yall are putting things in too weird of context. 15 CPU per module versus 5 PG.

Really? Could you possibly aid me by directing me to this information?

Im understanding what you saying and am slowly coming to accept it but I'm still pissed that the minmatar assault is at scout speed. I don't know if its just me but I truly think no assault base states should be equal rival any scouts speed.

correction: with skills you'll be sprinting for 29.5 seconds straight innately.

While this seems unappealing at a first glance, as a long time scout, you have no idea how much stamina affects play. If you run out of stamina you can't leap over rails to get away, you can't bunny hop and tap sprint to dodge fire. I'm not saying you guys are wrong but to me this is actually a very good bonus.

While it seems bland and people keep talking about the minmatar's dmg/hack bonus bonus you need to consider this as well: we have to equip knives to use it. Knives are a 1.5 m weapon requiring skill to use and failure means instant death. The hacking bonus means we have to stand still and exposed to make use of it and failure means instant death. Two EXTREMELY specific bonuses that make the minmatar the most specialized scout.

This large bonus to stamina gives you more utility in one suit. You don't have to build your suit/playstyle specifically to the suit allowing for more variety in one suit. I realize that it seems boring but trust me. This bonus is pretty good. Not exciting but all around pretty useful.

It kind of seems to me that the amarr scout is designed to kill minjas. They are way tougher, and their inhuman stamina ultimately defeats our speed.


You guys are like the storm troopers of dust. You come in and run your prey down until they are out of breath and then when they are corned and have to fight, you still have more in the tank, are way tougher, and now have the upper hand in every way. Now if there is a group of you, it's a force multiplier. You can literally run anything down.


Sounds kind of evil to me!

I'll give it a month or two after Marauder has murdered entire teams and everyone starts speccing into Amarr scout and you'll guys go "yknow, this suit ain't so bad."

I'm going to skill into amarr scout regardless. However I agree with what you're saying.

Amarr regardless of suit should have highest pg and CPU. At least pg.

4 pg equates to at LEAST 30 CPU!!

Am I a scout still? You must be trolling.

I am a Minnie and will remain a minnie. Of course I'm not going to play amarr because armor aint my thing.

Just keep voicing your opinions, you guys can probably get the bonus changed.

Look at the initial bonuses the scouts had, now look at them. Hell, look at the Minny, it gained the hack bonus everyone asked for. Everyone, get together and come up with the one thing you really want and get all the support you can.

And, no offense, but find someone else to type it up.

The 3hp/s is useless if you still die from 3 hits. This is going to be mostly for tanked scouts.

The 30 hp is meh, but the extra stamina helps. I only have 1 skill in regulators, and those basic mods feel incredible.

If you have level 5 scout for Amarr, you'll be able to sprint for about 2 or 3 more seconds than a Gallentean, which could makea difference. Slap on some kincats - maybe 1 more regulator - and you're good to go.

Ironically, the Amarr are going to be speed tankers.

3hp/s didn't make logis OP.
5hp/s did, on a suit that already had more slots than any other suit, with a fuckton of CPU/PG.

Remove that 5hp/s and logis would still be OP.

Just a correction for you.

*blink blink* are we really discussing CCP's math? We KNOW they're terrible. Something HAS to be OP with CCP. They're worthless FPS developers. They've PROVEN this countless times, look at the flaylock, hmg, mass driver, logi, current militia tanks, and the rail rifle. They haven't a clue what they are doing, and are mucking it up more and more as time goes by. They're a joke in the FPS world. Even GTA (not a FPS) has adjustable door locks on the fly. Waiting 5 seconds to pick up squad mates is ridiculous. Setting your door locks to squad/friends WORKS. Although, that sounds like 5 years of coding for CCP.

Considering that 1 PG does not equal 1 CPU (go look at some suit stats and module stats, 1 PG is a lot more valuable than 1 CPU) then yes, it is fair.

I wrote this up already but figured it fit here very nicely


In order for the minmatar scout to match the amarrian scout stat-wise:
1 proto ferroscale plate
1 militia green pill

Now the minnie scount has more speed, stamina, stamina regen, hacking speed, strafing, jumping, and more HP, oh and 4 free high-slots.

In order for the amarr suit to attempt to match the minmatr suit:

1 complex code breaker
1 basic code breaker
3 complex damage mods (can't fit anymore than 2 anyway)
1 enhanced kincat

Now the amarrian suit has comparible sprint speed (slower strafe/lower jumping) comparible hacking speed, and can't match the damage output due to not being able to fit enough damage mods, oh and 1 free low-slot.

I was going to spec into the Amarr Scout, so I'm part of the target group here.

- The 30 hp bonus is actually rather useful. All Amarr suits are 1-v-1 specialists and so should the scout. Everything else being equal the Gallente Scout will be dead when you still have 27 hp left. There's no repairing from that. You on the other hand can just drop a compact nanohive and walk away.
- The lack of additional fitting resources is balanced by the lack of the reduced slot count. I'll just add a CPU or PG module and it'll be as before, just with more flexibility.
- The reduction in movement speed is a very serious problem for a scout. It's just going to take that bit more time to get from cover to cover. If TTK stayed the same for 1.8 this would be a massive issue for me. I assume it's going to be a problem still, but I'll reserve the benefit of doubt for CCP.
- I've been playing the Gallente Scout for a while now and I *never* considered exchanging a range amplification module for a cardiac regulator. Not even a complex cardiac for a basic range extender. Not even two complex cardiacs. In 1.7 we'd be talking about trading 11 meter scan range (that's 25% of my scan range with only one module) against ... I was going to write something, but then I realized I never run out of stamina in 1.7...

Everything else seems acceptable, but the skill bonus is really bad. For all I care it wouldn't get better if the Amarr Scout had infinite stamina. I was originally hoping for a bonus that supported it's 1-v-1 power. E.g. a bonus to armor plate efficacy or a damage bonus to it's weapons. Stamina seems very useless.

I guess I'll stick with my passive scanning Gallente Scout for 1.8.

Increasing that stamina bonus anymore is kind of moot.

Your bonus is variety or lack of a specific bonus that requires a specific playstyle. The knife bonus is kind of a silly thing to poke at as it's a specific weapon with a specific playstyle requiring a specific suit. Regulators are useful in every situation. Knives are not. Hack bonus is useful for a specific situation. Again regulators are useful in EVERY situation.

Just because it's boring and non specific doesn't mean it's bad or imbalanced.

A damage bonus to something with the range and damage model of a scrambler pistol would be ridiculously overpowered. The scrambler pistol borders on overpowered as it is. Proficiency 4 in pistols before you ask.

Sorry dude. Can't agree with you.

Again. Any damage bonus to scrambler pistols and a scout would be ridiculous over powered. A rate of fire bonus is moot as you can't even fire as fast as the ROF allows anything past the TT-3 unless you're using a modded controller. Also the frame rate in this game isn't even good enough for you feasibly fire any of the pistols past he TT-3 as fast as they can fire.

Pistol bonus is simply ridiculous. You want a pistol bonus? Put on a commando suit.

If you want a specific bonus pistol are not the thing to lobby for.

So I m pretty convinced that some people in this thread either ;

a) run minnie scouts and can't wait to become OMGWTFPWNAGE

or

b) have a grudge against amarr stuff

To not see how completely horrible the amarrian bonus is (i.e. less than a militia module worth) is to be a bald face liar.

To not be able to see how 5 modules worth of bonuses (i.e. 3 cmplx damage mods, 1 cmplx code breaker and 1 standard code breaker) is completely broken is to be a liar as well.

It has been shown over and over again, in relative and quantitative terms how the scouts are currently unbalanced. This part of the discussion is OVER.

CCP: I believe these values are basically fair:

Minmatar- +2% sidearm damage per lvl (comes out to 1 free complex dmg mod)
+3% hacking speed per lvl (comes out to an advance dmod)
(the inate +5% hacking speed bonus then is the basic mod)

Gallente: are fine, leave them alone

Caldari: +5% dropsuit scan rdius per lvl (unchanged, basic mod equivalent)
+ 7% scan precision per lvl (complex and adv)

Amarr : + 20% stamina/stamina recovery per lvl (makes 1 complex module)
??? +17 armor HP/lvl (this would make 1 basic and 1 adv ferroscale)


This makes the minnie scout the infiltrator, the gallente scout the spy, the caldari scout the recon, and the amarrian scout the front-line scout.

1) it's not impressive by medium frame standards but we're talking scout here, where 10 HP difference means dead or alive.
2) Yeah that is weird I don't imagine why it's got more CPU but less PG. I think to know why we would need to know the intention of the Amarr Scout. But still, be happy you do not have 2 slots at basic.

I think you just have to try it out because Stamina is such a weird concept to try and apply mentally when really the results speak for themselves on the battlefield rather than in a statistical readout.

I don't know how the Amarr scout will turn out but I just don't think it will be dismal or worthless. It might prove to be over-situational but we'll see.

Ohhhh, so ya want a war?

Hey CCP! How come this "scout" doesn't have 3/3 set up? Give it a bonus to uplinks and a bunch of ehp.

Really, you wanna fight with the original scout just so you can be better? Shame.

King, I thought better of you.

Sir, I'm just being a little whiney gurl

Then I feel its fair to reduce the values of the other racial bonuses to bring them more in line with ADV modules.

25%, to my understanding, reduction in hacking time for scouts and your melee bonus? That doesn't seem a little rough to you does it?

80 replies with good information should get CCP's attention....

Ikr kinda like the Amarr scouts getting a bonus to uplinks it just doesn't go good with it.

hmmmm, i think i kind of agree with mollerz, the amarr while having lower speed can outrun everyone with that extra stamina, and if you put a complex cardiac regulator, i believe it stacks, a complex kinetic catalizer, the amarr is tankier and runs for a longer time, if we look at it the amarr scout is the suit that lasts the longest on the battlefield, with extended eHP and extended stamina, yes, maybe it is a little simple as a bonus, but the amarr also has the scout bonus, stamina is one of the most important things, i have died more than i care to admit because of lack of stamina, i will simplify this, the amarr scout is the hunter, capable of taking a hit, and doing multiple manouvers, and taking a couple hits, this scout will probably use a shotgun, he will take all the shortcuts, and have the stamina to jump and kill and dissapear thanks to the cloak, btw yes im a scout and i use gallente scout, and will skill all the way into caldari scout

honestly on paper it looks bland to me, but I dont know it may be a different story on the battlefield, maybe that extra stamina with the cloak can do wonders