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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
916
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:CCP Remnant wrote:hgghyujh wrote:im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel.
that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? *cries a little* Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though.
Simple answer: no, it is not at all necessary to remove the scouts sidearm in order to give them another equipment slot.
Reason: scouts are under powered as it is. What concivable two possible equipment combinations could make them OP? RE/nanohive? Will that stop them from dying from 3-5 scrambler rifle rounds? No. Maybe nanite inector/repair tool?  So, you'd see some scout performing somewhat of a LIMITED fast logi role. It's not like the logi doesn't already perform roles a scout should be doing in the first place like "Demo Logi", and with the cloak inbound and the new logi roll bonus, it's almost certain that "Predator Logi" is in the bag. Maybe it's RE/Cloak? So, the scout will get lucky every once in a while and catch three or four protos all in a tight group. Is this really a concern? Not like it doesn't already happen anyway.
So, what in the above warrants the removal of the sidearm for scouts...? Nothing.
It is a problem, if we give three out of four races no sidearm (it is a problem even if only one race gets this), affected scouts can't: perform AV effectively (no sidearm) [many scouts enjoy using the plasma cannon, but that will be impossible]; It effectively excludes any affected suit from performing the ninja role with nova knifes (a staple/enjoyable scout roll); a lot of scout enjoy using the sidearm as their main/most used weapon while using their main only when the situation calls for it (for long range combat mostly) [alot of scouts are sidearm enthusiast, like me];
So there you go, this is an excellent idea if your goal is to destroy the scout role completely.
This is what needs to happen if you guys (CCP) are dead set on removing the sidearm for an Eq slot:
from the same thread (quote limit):
quote=Son-Of A-Gun "Is it REALLY necessary to remove ho scout's sidearm in order to give them an extra equipment slot? If it is (which I couldn't posibaly conceive of why) then I suggest the following:
Just bring back type-IIs. You could call it x/2, x/2-series and xk.1. It would be like weapon variants. Is there some kind of percived problem where people are going to QQ over logis, assaults and heavies not having variants. It's not going to happen. Everybody remembers the old type-IIs for the med and heavy frames, one was geared toward armor tank and the other toward shield tank. We already have these now. The type-II scouts were diferent, for one, the very small amount of lean toward shield/armor wasn't a factor when deciding which suit to use. The desideing factor was whether or not you wanted an Eq slot or a sidearm. Forcing 3/4 races to not be able to fit a side arm is a bad idea (even forcing one or two races would be completely unfair. Just give the option to be able to use a type-II model."
And:
quote=Son-Of A-Gun "Like I said, I don't feel that this is something that warrants an SP sink. Hell, I don't even think that an extra Eq slot for scouts even warrants the removal of the sidearm (scouts are already underprivileged as it is, and with the new assault/heavy bonuses that are coming this is just going to get worse). If type-IIs are added they should be ISK/market variants, nothing more."
{:)}{3GÇó>
Please help me save the Gal scout!:
linky
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N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
1800
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
just plain dumb to remove it.
Minmatar Assault.
Sidearm King.
SMG's and Pistols. Melting armour, and blowing heads off. +60
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Knight Soiaire
BurgezzE.T.F
4435
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Its fair, I'd prefer to have the extra equip in exchange for a Sidearm as long as the Min's Bonus to the Nova Knives (A sidearm) gets replaced by a bonus to Biotics or Hack Speed.
If the Min keeps the current slot layout and bonus, I'll pray for a respec so I can go Caldari Scout.
Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars
EVE - White Sign Soapstone (Trial for newbs)
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1585
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hopefully CCP are doing this to a version of the suit like the type 2's we had back in beta, so there would be a version of the scout with a primary secondary and 1 eq slot and a version with primary and 2 eq slots allowing you to choose which is for you.
With the cloak a scout could become lethal with another slot imagine trying to take a point wondering if there is an invisible scout right behind you who has dropped RE's around the point. From the scout perspective hiding invisible with mines set up to decimate your attackers then suddenly appear next to them with a shotgun will be fun and a skilled user could easily slaughter the unwary so it has to have some balancing power. In my mind its kind of like tanks the invisible shotgun scout will get a huge advantage thanks to surprise but if they are limited to one weapon they will have waves of effectiveness just after decloaking on full primary ammo and scaring the living daylights out of the enemy.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
7842
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
I guess with the hopeful respec I'll drop my SP from knives.
Does CCP expect knifers to go pure knives? Cloak had better be damned good - except even if it is logis will be able to toss one on as well I imagine.
Level 7 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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kiarbanor
S.e.V.e.N.
General Tso's Alliance
279
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't understand the need to take away the secondary weapon. It makes no sense to me. I agree with you, Son. Scout is already weak; why nerf anything to the suit?
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
919
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Medic 1879 wrote:From the scout perspective hiding invisible with mines set up to decimate your attackers then suddenly appear next to them with a shotgun will be fun and a skilled user could easily slaughter the unwary so it has to have some balancing power
This is already a reality as it is. Where dose the addition of a cloak/Eq slot make this any more lethal than it already is? The fact is that scout are UP as it stands now, and the cloak/Eq slot are exactly the kind of buff scout needs.
{:)}{3GÇó>
Please help me save the Gal scout!:
linky
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
919
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:just plain dumb to remove it.
leave the sidearm slot there.
a nova knife being your only weapon? LOL.
Shotgunners with no range at all.
Snipers who cant defend at CQC.
Indeed.
{:)}{3GÇó>
Please help me save the Gal scout!:
linky
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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
606
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
They need the side-arm or they find themselves inferior to the Min Logi, as I've said in other threads. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
818
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
The scouts are getting more tools and abilities by loosing a back up weapon slot..
To me its a fair trade.
Will make the suits far more specialized...
After all The Shotgun twins Annie and Calamity used a Cal logi suit to shotgun when the scout suit died.
If logi's (Amarr exception) have been THE slayer suit and have had no backup weapon all this time for 7 patches I think the scouts will be fine.
Specially with everything you are getting for it. |
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
1843
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have a feeling that they are really going to emphasize stealth and recon if they take away the sidearm.
Think of it this way. IF the cloak will give you amazing stealth and mobility, then having a backup weapon won't be as useful.
Assaults use a sidearm cause they need to kill someone right in front of them NOW. No time to reload.
A scout would be more like this. Unload shotgun. 8 rounds. Someone else walk up? Cloak and run. IF the stealth and mobility work, you will be gone, safe, and can reload elsewhere.
If a sniper starts getting rushed, use the cloak. Disappear. Set up elsewhere.
Knives will be fine, as we will only get one equip and keep the sidearm. Good for a combat oriented scout. I will still use a cloak 
This guy said it best.
Scout Registry wrote:
If Cloak has major offensive AND evasive capabilities, then I can understand CCP needing to nerf Scouts to coincide with its release.
It will be a nerf to our Versatility, but a buff to our Stealth and Utility.
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
1297
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:The scouts are getting more tools and abilities by loosing a back up weapon slot..
To me its a fair trade.
Will make the suits far more specialized...
After all The Shotgun twins Annie and Calamity used a Cal logi suit to shotgun when the scout suit died.
If logi's (Amarr exception) have been THE slayer suit and have had no backup weapon all this time for 7 patches I think the scouts will be fine.
Specially with everything you are getting for it.
Considering the Logi will likely be fitting cloaks rather easilyGǪ 5% reduction to equipment
What are they losing to balance them out with the cloak?
KRRROOOOOOM
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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
2793
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:I have a feeling that they are really going to emphasize stealth and recon if they take away the sidearm. Think of it this way. IF the cloak will give you amazing stealth and mobility, then having a backup weapon won't be as useful. Assaults use a sidearm cause they need to kill someone right in front of them NOW. No time to reload. A scout would be more like this. Unload shotgun. 8 rounds. Someone else walk up? Cloak and run. IF the stealth and mobility work, you will be gone, safe, and can reload elsewhere. If a sniper starts getting rushed, use the cloak. Disappear. Set up elsewhere. Knives will be fine, as we will only get one equip and keep the sidearm. Good for a combat oriented scout. I will still use a cloak This guy said it best. Scout Registry wrote:
If Cloak has major offensive AND evasive capabilities, then I can understand CCP needing to nerf Scouts to coincide with its release.
It will be a nerf to our Versatility, but a buff to our Stealth and Utility.
Yes IF. Though with how adamant our CPM/community is about balancing cloaks to varying levels of worthless I'm a little skeptical.
If you were able to cloak/move/decloak/fire/recloak/disengage seemlessly and quickly I can see how you can have little use for a side arm. I'm not saying I think scouts should lose a side arm but yeah I can see it.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1543
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
kiarbanor wrote:I don't understand the need to take away the secondary weapon. It makes no sense to me. I agree with you, Son. Scout is already weak; why nerf anything to the suit?
Could you at least wait until the changes are deployed? Nobody knows what exactly they'll change besides the equipment / weapon slots. Nobody knows how powerful cloaking devices will actually be. Maybe Scouts will be the FOTM.
Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
2062
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
The only problem I see is gal scouts stacking armour plates and running around faster than anything with 600+ armour and two equipment slots.
We don't need another chrome like fiasco where two scouts do it better than a logi and are stealthy killers as a +. In chrome logis started dying out because we realised a squad of assaults (they had two equipment slots) did it better, between the squad all having 2 equipment slots there was no real need for a logi.
Just saying, this issue is far more sensitive than people are making out and I can ADV or proto everything in the game across 3 chars with an added 2 alts (inb4yournotascout)
Level 2 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
2062
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
And I'm eating so sorry if that's been said, I merely scanned the thread, pun intended lol.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
920
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:I have a feeling that they are really going to emphasize stealth and recon if they take away the sidearm. Think of it this way. IF the cloak will give you amazing stealth and mobility, then having a backup weapon won't be as useful. Assaults use a sidearm cause they need to kill someone right in front of them NOW. No time to reload. A scout would be more like this. Unload shotgun. 8 rounds. Someone else walk up? Cloak and run. IF the stealth and mobility work, you will be gone, safe, and can reload elsewhere. If a sniper starts getting rushed, use the cloak. Disappear. Set up elsewhere. Knives will be fine, as we will only get one equip and keep the sidearm. Good for a combat oriented scout. I will still use a cloak This guy said it best. Scout Registry wrote:
If Cloak has major offensive AND evasive capabilities, then I can understand CCP needing to nerf Scouts to coincide with its release.
It will be a nerf to our Versatility, but a buff to our Stealth and Utility.
There is absolutly no reason to remove the sidearm in the first place. 3/4 races will never use nova knifes, 3/4 races will not be able to be effective at AV. Most scouts enguage enemy's most often in CQC, (most scouts enjoy there sidearms mor than light weapons) now 3/4 races will be petty much confined to light weapons only.
In what way is this at all necessary. This is the question we should be asking ourselfs. Most scouts will use the cloak the majority of the time anyway, so the addition of a second Eq slot means nothing more than scout now have the ability to cloak plus whatever they were using in heir Eq slot before. Scots are underpowered as it is. We need buffs not more nerfs and the destruction of our versatility.
{:)}{3GÇó>
Please help me save the Gal scout!:
linky
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LT apparition
molon labe.
Public Disorder.
62
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm a Dedicated Scout, anyone that has played me or knows me, know i only Roll with the Scout, and i believe there they trying to Attempt to Bring Back The Type - II Scouts Which are the ones i Preferred to use in Chrome...
but ya.. i think the Scout are Under-Powered.. Mainly in the Areas of Speed, and Concealment... i'd like to see the Scout DB be taken back to what it was in chrome, and they should give the scout more Speed... i don't like how i'm only a little bit faster... than an assault Suit... and much weaker in the armor of Overall Health.
Knowledge and Patience, Only Counter to Skill.
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Sgt Buttscratch
1290
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
This will ruin scouts for me, I love having a side arm to switch out to, regardless of any cloak, extra equipment slot, the side arm saves my as so many times.
CCP need to play the game I think. Currently I think they live in a dream world, where where what they "think" is gunna be good is put into the game that we actually have to play. They add the commando, playing the 2 light weapon ability, which is istantly nulified by the fact a sentinel can hold a light weapon, and use it to better effect than a commando, only way the commando would have worked is if all the other heavy frames were restricted to heavy weapon and a side arm, making the comando a little special.
Kinda getting tired of their poor decisions and ideas, I thought CPM were supposed to transmit the general communities like/dislikes. Rarely see anything we're asking for done, just random **** disguised as plans turning up every few days. You can bet your ass there will be a NEO version of what ever the **** they ae planning next, CCP are good at making AUR items of everything, rather tha concentrating on real game advancing content.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
1962
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
I don't think it's going to be all scouts. Just a variant while the normal scout gets to keep his light weapon and sidearm.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
2063
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Removing the scout sidearm, major lol.
A big fat fk you if you want to knife but aren't minmatar.
I understand how ccp keeps changing to 'define' roles but its just bs. The quickest and easiest stress free way to do this would be to just restrict certain suits/roles to certain mods, equipment and weapons.
Or we can go round in circles whining forever, either way meh, it is what it is.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
283
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Posted - 2014.01.13 20:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
If they take the sidearm away a role i have been enjoying skilling into will be busted IMO. A sidearm is a must for their role and leaving it on one suit does not address the problem. Especially with the VERY LIMITED slot layouts on scouts certain play styles REQUIRE a set race for the scout.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
283
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Posted - 2014.01.13 20:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Also i could care less about the extra equipment slot if it requires loosing the sidearm.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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