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Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
155
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Posted - 2014.01.11 13:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok I have run proto swarm prof 5 with complex damage mods since the good old days of murder taxis........... sorry was having some fond memories.
But I always believed that AV was op until 1.7. The way I see it is a solo SL or forge gun should not be a game changer. We are the equivalent of the sniper. A constant worry and hopefully a pain in the ass.
Put 2 snipers together with focused fire and infantry drop. AV should be the same if you want to destroy tanks run as a tandem. Otherwise understand your only going to force the tank to pull back.
Which is also useful for infantry if a tank is harassing them at a letter. I run with a scout using flux and REs its amazing how fast a shield tank will go down with 2 flux and a volley of 6 missiles.
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Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
157
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Posted - 2014.01.11 14:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Tankers are the most powerful weapon in Dust.... fair enough No, not fair enough. One playstyle should not be inherently stronger than others. I'm happy for tanks to have more EHP and do more damage, but they need a significant weakness to counter it. My preferred approach is for tanks to only be at full strength when operated by a crew of 3, but there are a number of other alternatives that could work.
They do have weakness. Look at the arse if a caldari tank. There is a box there. The scout I run with calks this the boom box. It appears to be a very weak point on the tank. Not sure if its a glitch or intended. But slap some REs on it and it does exactly as it says on the tin |
Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
157
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Posted - 2014.01.11 14:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gelan Corbaine wrote:Teaming up is great .....except the system punishes you for teaming up and that's not so great . The more AV you have .... the less likely you are going to get paid . AV is among the lowest WP earners and the system forces them to compete for those WPs .
Also the more AV you have ..the weaker your team is against enemy AI . Meanwhile a rail Sica does the job better and more profitably and doesn't weaken your team's AI potential.
Very good point but is every battle about getting a shed load of WP I find sometimes I have more fun ruining the tankers day and finishing in the sub 10s . |
Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
157
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 14:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:Interesting angle on the subject.
Lets go with "AV are to tanks as Snipers are to infantry" as a starting point then.
So you have a battle with a few AV guys and a few Snipers, plus tanks and infantry. The AV neutralise some of the tanks. The Snipers neutralise some of the infantry. Sounds good so far.
Then the remaining tanks annihilate the remaining infantry.
Tanks win.
Tank annihilation is the preserve of the blueberry who believe that running solo at a HAV is going to have an outcome other than him being very dead.
I personally have found routes and defensive positions I would have never used prior 1.7
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Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
157
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Posted - 2014.01.11 15:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:You had prof5 complex damage modded swarms, no sh*t you thought AV was OP.
over 4000 damage to unresisted armor tanks per volley. Glitched explosive damage, with higher than forge damage, with the auto lock tracking swarms.
Forge guns weren't OP like SL, AV grenades had high damage but were virtually useless against real tankers, as real tankers could take more than three and easily back up.
Swarms however, killed even the best fit maddys(120mm plate,heavy rep,3 carapace hardeners) in 5 volleys through all modules, while forges(ishukone AFG 2 dmg mods prof5) did so in 10 shots.
That being said, if you want to never be able to solo a tank fine, go be a useless scrub thats ineffective at the role his loadouts designed for. But don't ever f*cking comment as if you speak for other players, or for AVers.
If AV can't solo tanks but tanks can solo tanks, then AV is pointless. This is the current state of dust, and its tanks514, and garbage.
You always get one learn how to AV |
Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
157
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 15:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zelorian Dexter snr wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:You had prof5 complex damage modded swarms, no sh*t you thought AV was OP.
over 4000 damage to unresisted armor tanks per volley. Glitched explosive damage, with higher than forge damage, with the auto lock tracking swarms.
Forge guns weren't OP like SL, AV grenades had high damage but were virtually useless against real tankers, as real tankers could take more than three and easily back up.
Swarms however, killed even the best fit maddys(120mm plate,heavy rep,3 carapace hardeners) in 5 volleys through all modules, while forges(ishukone AFG 2 dmg mods prof5) did so in 10 shots.
That being said, if you want to never be able to solo a tank fine, go be a useless scrub thats ineffective at the role his loadouts designed for. But don't ever f*cking comment as if you speak for other players, or for AVers.
If AV can't solo tanks but tanks can solo tanks, then AV is pointless. This is the current state of dust, and its tanks514, and garbage. You always get one learn how to AV
Oh and I dont believe that at any point in the original post did I say I was speaking for other players or the AV community as a whole. It is solely a personal view that I was interested in getting the community prospective on. |
Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
157
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 15:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Perspective sorry |
Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
158
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 16:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oh dear im a scrub from the guy who gets all aggressive and swears in his post............. sigh |
Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
158
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Posted - 2014.01.11 16:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Timtron Victory wrote:I am in no way a scrub had this game for 7 months with over 10 million SP but this is what I am hearing from the post of those saying AV are ok
-A scrub creates a new account
- Sees too many tanks switches to anti armor, probably misses the first shot or the SL
- fires all the rest shots on a tank and it doesnt kill the tank
In a different scenario
-A scrub creates a new account
- Sees too many tanks
- Buys a 80k ISK tank
-And ranks up his WP
That my friends is broken.
AV gets no WP unless they destroy the tank. That alone deters players from being anti-vehicle.
The fact that armor repairs why under fire should not be I believe.
It sucks hell in an ambush when no nanohives are available.
And please some smart ass should not tell me that I should get a nanohive suit or RE
I am talking about scrubs who just started.
And on a personal note - I WILL NEVER USE REMOTE EXPLOSIVES
Its a personal choice. You can't force feed a way to play on other players
The same way I will never use a Rail Rifle
see much better no need for swearing or getting angry. I agree with your points. Low tier AV is no useless. You will need a squad of 5 or 6 to do any dmg.
Yes tanks are cheap compared to the old pricing structure.
But lets not forget this is a work in progress and I assume is being monitored closely.
This is not the end game and re balance will happen on a regular basis.
But sometimes remember its the guys who finish mid table who haven't got a WP hardon who are destroying those tank or at least makeing them ineffective that help the guys on the ground cap the letters and win the game.
its not all about the WP but if rumor is right WP for damaging those pesky HAVs is going to be reinstated so problem solved.
oh and FYI closed beta player Galscout 16m sp Galogi 20m sp not that means anything.
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Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
158
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 17:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Timtron Victory wrote:Zelorian Dexter snr wrote:Timtron Victory wrote:I am in no way a scrub had this game for 7 months with over 10 million SP but this is what I am hearing from the post of those saying AV are ok
-A scrub creates a new account
- Sees too many tanks switches to anti armor, probably misses the first shot or the SL
- fires all the rest shots on a tank and it doesnt kill the tank
In a different scenario
-A scrub creates a new account
- Sees too many tanks
- Buys a 80k ISK tank
-And ranks up his WP
That my friends is broken.
AV gets no WP unless they destroy the tank. That alone deters players from being anti-vehicle.
The fact that armor repairs why under fire should not be I believe.
It sucks hell in an ambush when no nanohives are available.
And please some smart ass should not tell me that I should get a nanohive suit or RE
I am talking about scrubs who just started.
And on a personal note - I WILL NEVER USE REMOTE EXPLOSIVES
Its a personal choice. You can't force feed a way to play on other players
The same way I will never use a Rail Rifle see much better no need for swearing or getting angry. I agree with your points. Low tier AV is no useless. You will need a squad of 5 or 6 to do any dmg. Yes tanks are cheap compared to the old pricing structure. But lets not forget this is a work in progress and I assume is being monitored closely. This is not the end game and re balance will happen on a regular basis. But sometimes remember its the guys who finish mid table who haven't got a WP hardon who are destroying those tank or at least makeing them ineffective that help the guys on the ground cap the letters and win the game. its not all about the WP but if rumor is right WP for damaging those pesky HAVs is going to be reinstated so problem solved. oh and FYI closed beta player Galscout 16m sp Galogi 20m sp not that means anything. I am not getting angry or shouting just drawing attention to the RE discussion as everyone seems to suggest it. I just dont want to use it. Regretted skilling into it. I heard about the WP for damage coming soon I also know that this game is a work in progress years of work ahead according to some forum members
Sorry my friend got you confused with someone else.
Unfortunately I have sunk SP into trees which are now useless.
I serve in the military and you have to use all the tools at your disposale. Don't think I have ever refused CAS as I dont like it but each to there own.
You dont have to run weapons you dont want its your choice but im sure you have mercs in your corp who can bring these to the table when you run as a squad. |
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Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
158
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Posted - 2014.01.11 17:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Close air support.
And hopefully those suits will be soon. |
Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
158
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 17:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Totally agree hopefully the RR cqc bug will be sorted soon and my beautiful Gallente AR will reign supreme. |
Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
167
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Posted - 2014.01.12 12:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:Charlotte O'Dell wrote:R F Gyro wrote:Interesting angle on the subject.
Lets go with "AV are to tanks as Snipers are to infantry" as a starting point then.
So you have a battle with a few AV guys and a few Snipers, plus tanks and infantry. The AV neutralise some of the tanks. The Snipers neutralise some of the infantry. Sounds good so far.
Then the remaining tanks annihilate the remaining infantry.
Tanks win. Unless the sniper/av team has The Highest Level Unicorn on their team; he equals 6 tanks. Been wondering, do shield hardeners also reduce damage taken from flux?
I dont think they do 2 proto flux will take shields down even when hardened. Its an EMP weapon so disrupts your shield generators. |
Zelorian Dexter snr
Nex Miles Militis
167
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 12:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Baltazar Pontain wrote:Echoist wrote:Baltazar Pontain wrote:The new role of AV? cannon fodder? A joke? You're only cannon fodder if you allow your self to be treated as so, work as a team and the "cannon fodder" you speak so lowly of turns into a hell fire zone of denial Cool words but no truth. I was in a team. Two people that were dedicated into swarms. Situation: Domination we hold the point. A tank comes into our middle. We had plenty cover. We fired A LOT missles and the only reason he died was that he kept sitting there like a fat duck. (In reflection I think because he was not used to die). If I remember right myself was 3 times reloading. At ANY time. He could simply drive away. The point is: Binding two or more ppl to kill one guy, and do that on top only because he ALLOWED us to do, is not balanced.
You need a scout to get in close and flux down the shields. Swarms have a huge dmg reduction on shields. Oh and hit caldari tanks up the arse they are very weak my SL jumps to 175% similar to a headshot from a sniper. Also in the middle there is a black box this is the insta kill button hit that the tank will pop. Hard with SL but easy with RE or forge
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