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Boomer-811
Living Like Larry Schwag
7
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Posted - 2014.01.10 16:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just got to thinking. I made a post about a week ago addressing concerns with the NPE. I went over how the quick ejection from ACADEMY, lack of any form of TUTORIAL, and immediate PROTO-STOMPING, make DUST a bit of a tough pill to swallow for new players. Looking back through the forums, that post has obviously been pushed back under 10-20 pages about cloaks, logi/scout/heavy changes, and various posts about tanks. My concerns remain though. Have DEVs made any comment on how they feel the NPE is in its current state?
I'm unfortunately coming to the point where this game has just about lost it's luster, and I'm fighting in my head to justify continuing on with the grind. I really loved the concept when I first heard it. Those starters matches in Academy, and even running around with squads and some of the CORPS I've joined have been great. Outside of those experiences though, this game is brutal to any new player. Most of the response to topics like this are little more than HTFU, but like with my original post I'm looking for constructive feedback from not only general populace, but any CPM members that want to comment, or heck even a DEV if they want to chime in.
I've also read responses to threads like this saying that "EVE is just as brutal!" Well, not really. I've played EVE, even picked it back up and have been chugging away at a character while I'm in trial-phase. There's the CHANCE, a very slim CHANCE, but it exists, that a decked out ship could swoop in and make mince-meat of me. However, measures are in place to discourage that, and there's an environment where new players have the ability to get their feet under them and start running.
New players are the lifeblood of any game. Veterans will eventually get tired of being top dog, and move on to something fresh and lively. The only thing that keeps a game going long-term is a steady influx of new players. Without them, the game will hold on for quite a while, but inevitably kind of fall into obscurity. I read in other threads that the usual player count is between 3-4k which is awesome, really, but I don't see that holding steady forever unless somethings change for the newer players.
With all of the pages upon pages of threads regarding the suit/type changes coming with 1.8, I just wanted to toss out one for the new players out there who are having a heck of a time finding fun in the game. |
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
536
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Posted - 2014.01.10 16:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've not played EVE but from my understanding of the game, there is a bunch of stuff a player can do besides PVP including mining and othe rindustrial activities, playing the market, and PvE. Thus a new player has a myriad of activities they can enjoy while getting to the point of being ready for PvP if they eventually want that to be their thing. We need to at least have cooperative PvE for this game to thrive. I've been clamoring for this since before Uprising even and still not even a response of "we're working on it" |
Boomer-811
Living Like Larry Schwag
7
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Posted - 2014.01.10 16:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:I've not played EVE but from my understanding of the game, there is a bunch of stuff a player can do besides PVP including mining and othe rindustrial activities, playing the market, and PvE. Thus a new player has a myriad of activities they can enjoy while getting to the point of being ready for PvP if they eventually want that to be their thing. We need to at least have cooperative PvE for this game to thrive. I've been clamoring for this since before Uprising even and still not even a response of "we're working on it"
You are correct. There are missions against NPCs, player-trading, mining, crafting, etc. I don't imagine there'd be such an in-depth array of activities aside from the PVP in DUST, but something else would be nice. My main concern is how unforgiving the game is so quickly after leaving academy. Going five matches out of academy where you could literally go 0/10 or 2/15 because the other side is rocking proto's tends to drive new people away. The number of people I see in Academy vs the number of those people I see on again during pub-matches don't add up to a very positive feeling. |
Galthur
CrimeWave Syndicate
214
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Posted - 2014.01.10 16:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Boomer-811 wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:I've not played EVE but from my understanding of the game, there is a bunch of stuff a player can do besides PVP including mining and othe rindustrial activities, playing the market, and PvE. Thus a new player has a myriad of activities they can enjoy while getting to the point of being ready for PvP if they eventually want that to be their thing. We need to at least have cooperative PvE for this game to thrive. I've been clamoring for this since before Uprising even and still not even a response of "we're working on it" You are correct. There are missions against NPCs, player-trading, mining, crafting, etc. I don't imagine there'd be such an in-depth array of activities aside from the PVP in DUST, but something else would be nice. My main concern is how unforgiving the game is so quickly after leaving academy. Going five matches out of academy where you could literally go 0/10 or 2/15 because the other side is rocking proto's tends to drive new people away. The number of people I see in Academy vs the number of those people I see on again during pub-matches don't add up to a very positive feeling. Again PVE, PVE and Racial completion should be priority's of the devs
Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
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iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1290
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Posted - 2014.01.10 17:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Boomer-811 wrote:PROTO-STOMPING,
My opinion on this, after a few months of people wiser than me saying it. Is ultimately proto gear is bad for the game in pub matches and I think that dusts player base its own worst enemy because of a general win at any cost mentality.
Greedy Goblin-esq moralising about the psychological traits of gamers aside. All too often people have an "alls fair" attitude and expect/let CCP fix it.
Every time someone protostomps a noob in pub and they leave in frustration this game slips a little more into the black hole. There are some truely amazing players in this game, people whoes skill at thier chosen profession amazes, frustrates, makes me scream and makes me laugh. I think those people have proven thier skill in battle, we really need to think about the game as players, calm down and use public to try new fits, pull back abit and stop with the win and at cost tactics.
I wish those amazing players, you know the ones I mean, would maybe, for a few months of this year use thier powers for good. Your awesome, we know it. Give something back and save the game, your K/D doesn't need you to rock every time you go into pub.
And lets face it, despite everyones bitching, you'll miss dust when its gone.
Perhaps we should try make 2014 the 'year of the militia fit'.
"We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
944
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Posted - 2014.01.10 17:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
The CPM (IWS) started a forum thread a while back about the new player experience, soliciting suggestions and comments. My guess is that this was based on a conversation with the devs: "This thread is being watched".
Any serious attempt at creating a smooth NPE will have to have significant elements of PvE though, so they'll need to get that implemented first.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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Valmorgan Aubaris
Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services ACME Holding Conglomerate
163
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Posted - 2014.01.10 17:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Boomer-811 wrote:
I've also read responses to threads like this saying that "EVE is just as brutal!" Well, not really. I've played EVE, even picked it back up and have been chugging away at a character while I'm in trial-phase. There's the CHANCE, a very slim CHANCE, but it exists, that a decked out ship could swoop in and make mince-meat of me. However, measures are in place to discourage that, and there's an environment where new players have the ability to get their feet under them and start running. .
You're absolutely correct, in EVE the player controls the risk largely depending upon where he choses to go (security space), in DUST it's like being thrown into a 6X6' cell every 15 minutes with Mike Tyson while wearing speedos and maybe a garbage can lid as a shield.
I believe pub matches should be starter fits only, and ISK rewards lowered and honor points put in place if the ISK, on a scale like Faction Wars loyalty points, that way a really good player is separated from protostompers by the honor points earned.
A system such as that teaches newbs the value of squadding on an even playing field. Squad = more honor points because together you're stronger in defense.
EVE alliance seeks mercs and corps!
Join Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services today!
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1468
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Posted - 2014.01.10 17:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
The way to fix this is to separate battles by the security status of the system the planet is in and then only allow suits that have a meta number that falls into that planets allowable number range. The meta number for the suit would include all the modules and weapons as well as the suit's number added together.
I understand that we don't have many players and that this would separate the players but there is no other way to do it. It would force players to dress appropriately or GTFO and it would stop all proto/noob stomping because every suit used would have a certain range of what it could do. It would also put more emphasis on player skill and how well the suit is fit. New players could stay in 1.0 as long as they want and only move up in difficulty only when they felt ready. Vets could use these separate levels to test and train. It is the only way to fix the problems with matchmaking, proto/noobs stomps and NPE.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Paran Tadec
The Hetairoi
1893
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Posted - 2014.01.10 17:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tiericide
Bittervet Proficiency V
thanks logibro!
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
7781
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Posted - 2014.01.10 17:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Tiericide A thousand times this.
Level 7 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1469
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Posted - 2014.01.10 17:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
That only puts more prototype stuff on the field, nohing would be fixed at all.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
537
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Posted - 2014.01.10 18:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:Boomer-811 wrote:PROTO-STOMPING, My opinion on this, after a few months of people wiser than me saying it. Is ultimately proto gear is bad for the game in pub matches and I think that dusts player base its own worst enemy because of a general win at any cost mentality. Greedy Goblin-esq moralising about the psychological traits of gamers aside. All too often people have an "alls fair" attitude and expect/let CCP fix it. Every time someone protostomps a noob in pub and they leave in frustration this game slips a little more into the black hole. There are some truely amazing players in this game, people whoes skill at thier chosen profession amazes, frustrates, makes me scream and makes me laugh. I think those people have proven thier skill in battle, we really need to think about the game as players, calm down and use public to try new fits, pull back abit and stop with the win and at cost tactics. I wish those amazing players, you know the ones I mean, would maybe, for a few months of this year use thier powers for good. Your awesome, we know it. Give something back and save the game, your K/D doesn't need you to rock every time you go into pub. And lets face it, despite everyones bitching, you'll miss dust when its gone. Perhaps we should try make 2014 the 'year of the militia fit'.
The thing is, its not just the proto gear (though it does make it worse), fact is that even if I don't use proto gear (which I hardly ever do in pub matches) I'm still a closed beta vet with 25 million SP. Many of my fellow closed beta vets have over 30 million SP. That means that even if we use standard suits that we have proficiency 5 in our weapon of choice so that a standard level weapon hits like a proto weapon, we have our armor and shield skills to level 5, electronics and engineering are maxed to allow us to fit more on a starter suit than a newberry, and we just plain know the maps and gameplay better than a new player. Thus even if there was no proto gear being used, unless that new player has some serious FPS skills most vets are going to still have every advantage against that new guy.
Thus, the only solutions (in my mind) are PvE and extending the academy. I think the academy should be an option for at least the first 5 million SP of a new player's career. If they want to venture out of it earlier, good for them they can, but they should have the option of playing against people of their own SP level for much longer than it is currently. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2422
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Posted - 2014.01.10 18:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Biggest problem is the ridiculous tiers, tiercide would do a lot for this games health After all what sounds better, knowing that "Hey this guy beat me since hes knows the layouts but I can learn those as well fairly quick and then be on an even footing" or "Ok this guy beat me since he knows the layout and has a years worth of SP on me so even after I learn the layouts Im at a significant disadvantage anyway due to his gear and skill bonuses"
Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1469
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Posted - 2014.01.10 18:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Biggest problem is the ridiculous tiers, tiercide would do a lot for this games health After all what sounds better, knowing that "Hey this guy beat me since hes knows the layouts but I can learn those as well fairly quick and then be on an even footing" or "Ok this guy beat me since he knows the layout and has a years worth of SP on me so even after I learn the layouts Im at a significant disadvantage anyway due to his gear and skill bonuses"
People work hard to have nice gear and getting rid of tiers would just make everyone more the same. I don't want to play COD. Vet players should have an advantage in almost every aspect because they have been here long and put their time in to eran those perks. Don't push for tiericide because everything will be the same and that is boring.
Tiericde in EVE was making all standard frigates accessible with level one skills, there are still frigates that require high-level skills and multiple skills to fly. We only have one type of weapon per level. Each level has only one tier. So tiericide would only do nothing. If there were multiple weapons in each tech level all requiring higher skills this would might help but as it is there isn't enough items per tech level to justify tiericide.
GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising
640
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Posted - 2014.01.10 21:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Interesting point. Maybe when dust moves to null sec prototype equipment will be named in high sec by concord. Maybe because its prototype stuff that may explode |
NomaDz 2K
The Rainbow Effect
102
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Posted - 2014.01.10 22:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
The way i see it, it's very simple to add a STANDARD mode , as in only STANDARD gear or below is allowed, how can CCP do this With an ingame code with an 'IF' process as in 'IF' a player has ANY item above , therefore Greater than > STD they get kicked from that game mode and banned till down time, similar to what they do with FW but it's based upon the damage done in game to friendlies Whereas CCP just need it to look at items equiped, or they could just LOCK out any items above STD and the problem is solved, so if you try to equip anything above STD , you get kicked from that game type, they could even do it without a ban till down time .
So basically CCP have already done something very similar in FW all they need to do is something like that with STD Gear game mode as a limit. Now if the problem is they can't find a programmer to do it, well then they should remove a few people not doing their jobs and insert people which actually work for their wages.
In the end this will NOT divide player count, new players get to learn from Veteran players and maybe the player count might even go up But they would also have to add an INFANTRY ONLY STD mode so that the new n00bz don't get stomped by tanks
DON'T SPEND CA$H ON DUST 514
CCP WILL ONLY GIVE YOU AUR AFTER THEY REMOVE YOUR BPOs WHICH U SPENT REAL MONGé¼Y ON!
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University Ivy League
2756
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Posted - 2014.01.10 22:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
My little bro just created a new toon, and went 22/5/5 on the academy.....first match out of the academy....0/5/8....5 tanks, 1 proto squad and he was on a blueberry team (albeit he is a blueberry himself).
Raise the WP limit to 5k CCP.
Proud member of the Commando 6
<3 Commando AK.0
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