DUST Search - [Feedback] Scout bonuses gleaned off of SiSi

Zeylon Rho wrote:

To be fair, that's kinda what the preliminary logi bonuses look like, in that each race gets functional bonuses to only a specific equipment type.

The fitting bonus for the cloak is interesting though. Fitting in-game has two parts in this case, your suit and your skill level. A lower level scout is doubly screwed because they don't have access to a suit with higher fitting stats, and they don't get a full reduction of the cloaking costs. So, exactly what sort of fitting the cloaks have is a big question here.

Is max scout level needed to fit one comfortably? Is a protosuit? Or do you need both to just barely be able to fit one and a advanced weapon? If the latter is the case, you've removed lower level scouts from using cloaks and their racial cloak bonuses.

This is somewhat specious on my part I guess, since I imagine there'll be at least three cloaks (basic/advanced/proto), but the mere act of giving them tiers will seemingly make them easier for other specialties to fix.

Also, from the summary of "what cloaks are", cloaks are equipment, no? That means every logistics player with max skill will get a 25% bonus to fit a cloak, which would place them roughly on par with someone with Scout-skill-3.. but in a suit with many more slots, more hp, and much better fitting stats.

The presently suggested stats seem to introduce some issues, but it's hard to say how it will work exactly without knowing:
A. New suit stats
B. Cloak stats

I hope they're completely reworking scout stats for this, because I don't want to see an Amarr Scout be as fast as an assault suit with the fewest slots of all scouts and fewer hp than anything but another scout.


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Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 544	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:24:00 - [1] - Quote To start with, this is what I'm referencing: Scout Suit Bonus: +10% bonus to PG/CPU cost of cloak field per level. Amarr Scout Bonus: 5% reduction to cloak field cooldown per level. Caldari Scout Bonus: 5% reduction to firing cloak cost per level. Gallente Scout Bonus: +5% to dropsuit scan radius and 5% reduction to scan profile per level. Minmatar Scout Bonus: +5% to melee and nova knife damage per level. I'm rather underwhelmed. Actually that's a massive understatement. I'm in a flipping tables kind of mood after seeing these. However, I will try to remain coherent on why I think these bonuses are really quite detrimental to scouts. 1. Loss of the Scout bonus to profile reduction. This is HUGE. Scouts are supposed to be, as a class, difficult to scan (both passive and active). Without this, flanking is impossible especially considering the new Gal Logi bonuses (to active scanning). This will now require dedicated module slots on the suits that were already the most slot poor of any class. Even stacking lows with profile dampeners will no longer bring any scouts profile, except gal scout, under the detection limit for gal logi active scanners. 2. Forced use of an equipment slot These bonuses are essentially requiring an equipment choice to fill the ONE slot that scouts have. We lose the capability to drop uplinks strategically using our profile dampened status. We lose any diversity or flexibility to support our team on the battlefield. Are we to be relegated to one role? It seems to me with no equipment flexibility then we are stuck as cloaked assassins only. While yes that might be great, but what's the point of having every scout be that? It's like telling Logis that "hey you have all this equipment you could use, but you only get bonuses to rep tools. Ammar you get range, Caldari gets increased rep efficiency, and so on....". It's not promoting diversity of the battle field. 3. Melee bonus on Minmatar scouts Minmatar scouts get the shaft again. Keeping this bonus to melee is really weak. Incredibly so. What is the point to adding a melee damage bonus onto a suit that has the weakest melee damage to start with? Now we can hit as hard as a heavy would....great, it still isn't useful. There are any number of appropriate bonuses that the minmatar scout could have reasonably in addition to the nova knife bonus. Suggestion and scout thread 4. Gallente Scout nerf On top of all the other points, the gallente scout at least remains the closest to what it started at. However, in the stats from SiSi it shows that gallente only gets 5% scan radius increase. A drop from the previous 10% bonus. If the idea was to buff scouts, decreasing the bonus on them previously seems counter-productive. Admittedly this is not the worst part of what we've seen. But still insult to injury or something.... 5. Strength of the Scout bonus Another concern is the strength of the overall bonus to fitting costs on cloak modules. If the costs are as high as they were suggested to be (ie difficult to fit onto logis or any other suit) then even with a 50% bonus, cloaks will be difficult to fit onto the class of suits that has 1/4 to 1/2 the fitting of the other suits. So this is just my reaction and thoughts from seeing these hopefully preliminary bonuses. If there is an across the board reduction in scout base profile, that would be a reasonable compromise to the new Scout bonus. I still have a problem with tying scouts to a single piece of equipment. Unless there was to be an addition to extra equipment slots (ie 2 total) to at least some of the racial scouts, I don't think that this move will promote the diversity on the battlefield or a sustainable buff to scouts that it's supposed to provide.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 547	Posted - 2014.01.08 20:26:00 - [2] - Quote jordy mack wrote: Cool rumor bro. The bonuses I referenced were taken from Sisi just like everything else. Look at the links I provided at the top of the post.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 548	Posted - 2014.01.08 23:38:00 - [3] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Young padawan, wait until slots and stats are released. I am sure CCP is going to fix suit dB vs scanner dB. They should apply the level 5 bonus to all scout suits as a normal stat If those are released as they have been in the past, with the patch notes, then it will be far to late to effect any changes. Especially things like suit profiles. It took them how many updates after the introduction of the active scanner to change scan ranges? At least 4 maybe 5? This is an issue integral to how scouts function and their role on the field. If we don't speak out about it or try to influence the path that balancing takes us, then when it doesn't work as intended I don't want CCP to come back and say, "this is what the community wanted, they approved these bonuses before we implemented" This is the thread saying, no, this isn't where we think scouts should be headed. Please reconsider or give us the reasoning on why this should be the way it is.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 563	Posted - 2014.01.09 17:31:00 - [4] - Quote To be clear. I'm am comparing the bonuses with the assumption that we won't be getting more than 1 equipment slot and that the majority of fitting and slot profiles won't be changing. With that in mind, I'm looking at the bonuses and seeing some things being added (ie cloak) but quite a few things being taken away (likely CCP is thinking this is in compensation for being given cloaks, something like a nerf for a buff to balance things). The profile bonus that we've enjoyed up til now and the loss of versatility surrounding the equipment slot are the two things that I'm most concerned with losing. Their value on a scout suit are enormous and I doubt that their loss will be compensated by a cloak. Maybe. But I think unlikely. If active scanners don't cause de-cloak (IMO this is unlikely) then we're looking at being scanned and showing up on tac net but being invisible to the eye, thereby alerting the enemy to the presence of a cloaked scout. This defeats the goal of the cloak. To perform tolerably well, cloaking must be paired with dampening to be truly effective as a stealth mode. Thus, we're looking at losing most of our buffer modules in favor of maximizing our effectiveness in stealth mode. Also, considering that Gallente scouts are the most armor oriented, we can expect that the other racials will have fewer low slots with which to stack dampeners. This cripples the ability to perform as necessary. We need some way to beat at BARE MINIMUM, basic scanners passively. I'd prefer to be able to beat ADV scanners passively with full skills but perhaps that may be OP. Time would tell. As far as equipment slots go, I'd prefer that some racial suits do have 2 slots at the expense of other attributes clearly (speed as in the type II from chromosome or something else). Perhaps all scouts don't need 2 equipments such that there is a clear choice between slayer ninja scout and support scout.....
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 565	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:39:00 - [5] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: To be fair, that's kinda what the preliminary logi bonuses look like, in that each race gets functional bonuses to only a specific equipment type. The fitting bonus for the cloak is interesting though. Fitting in-game has two parts in this case, your suit and your skill level. A lower level scout is doubly screwed because they don't have access to a suit with higher fitting stats, and they don't get a full reduction of the cloaking costs. So, exactly what sort of fitting the cloaks have is a big question here. Is max scout level needed to fit one comfortably? Is a protosuit? Or do you need both to just barely be able to fit one and a advanced weapon? If the latter is the case, you've removed lower level scouts from using cloaks and their racial cloak bonuses. This is somewhat specious on my part I guess, since I imagine there'll be at least three cloaks (basic/advanced/proto), but the mere act of giving them tiers will seemingly make them easier for other specialties to fix. Also, from the summary of "what cloaks are", cloaks are equipment, no? That means every logistics player with max skill will get a 25% bonus to fit a cloak, which would place them roughly on par with someone with Scout-skill-3.. but in a suit with many more slots, more hp, and much better fitting stats. The presently suggested stats seem to introduce some issues, but it's hard to say how it will work exactly without knowing: A. New suit stats B. Cloak stats I hope they're completely reworking scout stats for this, because I don't want to see an Amarr Scout be as fast as an assault suit with the fewest slots of all scouts and fewer hp than anything but another scout. The difference being that all racial scouts are basicly built around cloaks now rather than, as for logis, each race recieving a bonus to something competely different. My opinion anyways. I agree to that I see the fitting bonus on all scouts being very situational and not useful for lower tier scouts if, as they said earlier, that fitting costs on cloaks will be prohibitive to any but scouts using them. (how does a low tier scout fit them without being full level and using a proto fit if they are cost prohibitive?)