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Change the redline into a 'cowardice' and 'safety' zones.

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Pete B Blood Unit 13 Zero-Day 71	Posted - 2014.01.07 02:27:00 - [1] - Quote We all hate redline sniping right? Its pretty hard to justify having someone shooting down at the battlefield in an area that only another sniper can get at them. We all agree getting redlined is a massive bummer, and pretty unfair. But we still need to keep players inside the map. Why not have the area directly under the MCC spawn point be a safety zone, where a bubble shield protects people inside from incoming fire, but at the expense of the weapon's PG so they can't fire while inside the bubble. This bubble is powered by the MCC so it only shuts down when the MCC does. To stop being redlined at the bubble, you get 30 seconds of invincibility still powered by the bubble once you leave the bubble and you can fire you weapon. The 30 seconds won't be long enough to redline snipe and not get someone chasing you up, but at the same time its long enough for someone to kill ambusher that are right next to the bubble without dying. The cowardice zone is just the Redline on the very edge of the map. Your clone's life support is automatically shut down if you go too far or stay too long in the cowardice zone.
abarkrishna WarRavens 258	Posted - 2014.01.07 02:48:00 - [2] - Quote Because mother ******* like me will camp that bubble and not let them leave. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
kneegrow face SAM-MIK 2	Posted - 2014.01.07 03:00:00 - [3] - Quote NO, the redline is just fine the way it is. Mama always had a way of explaining things so I could understand them.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 477	Posted - 2014.01.07 04:24:00 - [4] - Quote Its an easy fix that people have said for months. No one can shoot in/out of the redline. Problem solved
Leo Look Shadow Company HQ 34	Posted - 2014.01.07 04:32:00 - [5] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Its an easy fix that people have said for months. No one can shoot in/out of the redline. Problem solved I like this fix and they still have all of the red line to find a brake out point
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 355	Posted - 2014.01.07 05:14:00 - [6] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Its an easy fix that people have said for months. No one can shoot in/out of the redline. Problem solved That "fix" creates separate but similar issues: A) Enemies just wait and massacre people as they're coming out of the redline. B)Players in the redline will tip-toe out just enough to shoot, then go back in when they're being fired upon. Try to correct B by making it so people can't go back into the redline, and A becomes an even worse problem.
Kilo Shells G.L.O.R.Y Public Disorder. 19	Posted - 2014.01.07 05:36:00 - [7] - Quote Net zero WP for kills from and inside the red zone maybe? That way camping inside or outside the red zone would be fruitless unless your team needs to fight its way out. Caldari Assault My 2 cents on Grenades
Kharga Lum Xeno Labs Security 191	Posted - 2014.01.07 08:12:00 - [8] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Its an easy fix that people have said for months. No one can shoot in/out of the redline. Problem solved How would this be explained?
The Minoan ManiacArchon Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo 9	Posted - 2014.01.07 08:43:00 - [9] - Quote Why not fix the sniper's zoom and view distance so they can counter snipe? That's the whole point of it. For example, when you're on the pillars at Line Harvest, you can't see people on the far side pillar near the enemy MCC. But when you drop to the ground, you can see them... Or at least the ones on the middle and near pillar. Now that's a bit illogical because the absolute distance increases when you drop to the ground You see, there's sniping and counter sniping. Right now in Dust, there's only sniping. That's the problem, not the redzone P.S. Noone shooting in & out of the redline would make people run to hide in there... Can you imagine that along with the current tank situation... Hmmmm
Pete B Blood Unit 13 Zero-Day 72	Posted - 2014.01.07 09:16:00 - [10] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Because mother ******* like me will camp that bubble and not let them leave. Thats the beauty of the safety zone. If you camp outside, then you will be charged at by someone who is invincible. And even if they don't want to take you out, they can bring an LAV into the bubble, and just charge off, not being able to get taken out within 30 seconds, and by then, they would be at the objective.

SickJ sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 121	Posted - 2014.01.07 10:04:00 - [11] - Quote Remember, it's only sniping if you can actually see the target.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1500	Posted - 2014.01.07 10:33:00 - [12] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Its an easy fix that people have said for months. No one can shoot in/out of the redline. Problem solved Yeah. That's the shittiest solution I ever heard of. You just want to limit what the players can do. But it should be the other way around: Give them more options. So the best solution in my opinion would be something like remove the redline. No instant death when you go there. Instead the MCC should target you. But you are still able to take cover. It should be very hard to get into the redline, but not impossible like it currently is. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
SickJ sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 121	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:28:00 - [13] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Its an easy fix that people have said for months. No one can shoot in/out of the redline. Problem solved Yeah. That's the shittiest solution I ever heard of. You just want to limit what the players can do. But it should be the other way around: Give them more options. So the best solution in my opinion would be something like remove the redline. No instant death when you go there. Instead the MCC should target you. But you are still able to take cover. It should be very hard to get into the redline, but not impossible like it currently is. +1 At the least, the redline should be removed from FW, since that's supposed to be our 'hardcore' mode.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.07 21:11:00 - [14] - Quote Removing the redline will only lead to spawn camping, just like any overrun CRU. The idea of a protective force field that no one can shoot into or out of is a good one. I don't like the idea of invincibility and it is open to abuse. There should be a time limit for how long you can stay in the protective bubble and once you leave you can't re-enter. If the reds have your team confined you have the ability to form up as a team and breakout, this would lead to pitched battles and some strategy rather than the individual spawning and dying or hiding we have now.
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 559	Posted - 2014.01.07 21:17:00 - [15] - Quote a base would be better...
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 977	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:01:00 - [16] - Quote Again, guys, redline sniping is not the problem. The problem is that map design means snipers really have no better place to be BUT the redline. Snipers need good perches on maps so that they have a reason to engage. (Note that they just REMOVED half the sniper positions from the rings map unless you have a dropship.) Snipers look for high positions with good visibility. Right now, all the maps have mountainous redlines, meaning it makes sense to snipe from them. Maps with good sniper spots inside the redline will not have as many redline sniping problems. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 3	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:26:00 - [17] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Again, guys, redline sniping is not the problem. The problem is that map design means snipers really have no better place to be BUT the redline. Snipers need good perches on maps so that they have a reason to engage. (Note that they just REMOVED half the sniper positions from the rings map unless you have a dropship.) Snipers look for high positions with good visibility. Right now, all the maps have mountainous redlines, meaning it makes sense to snipe from them. Maps with good sniper spots inside the redline will not have as many redline sniping problems. I agree. I think that map verticality outside of the existing redline is the best way to get snipers to move onto the field and play. This will also be a boon to DS pilots, scouts, and others that like the asymmetrical aspects of Dust. Boost your squad's points by 40%, learn to use the Squad Wheel! I provide training: 1M isk: 90 Minutes of Basic Command
Meee One Clones Of The Damned Zero-Day 89	Posted - 2014.01.08 01:45:00 - [18] - Quote Another 'let us spawn reap our enemies' thread. And from an alliance member too...for shame! There's no way this could be abused except ya know...if your enemies surround you with HAVs. Stomping shouldn't be encouraged.
Meee One Clones Of The Damned Zero-Day 89	Posted - 2014.01.08 01:50:00 - [19] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Removing the redline will only lead to spawn camping, just like any overrun CRU. The idea of a protective force field that no one can shoot into or out of is a good one. I don't like the idea of invincibility and it is open to abuse. There should be a time limit for how long you can stay in the protective bubble and once you leave you can't re-enter. If the reds have your team confined you have the ability to form up as a team and breakout, this would lead to pitched battles and some strategy rather than the individual spawning and dying or hiding we have now. More 'let us spawn reap our enemies'. Using dynamic words doesn't hide your true intentions. R.E.s would end those 'pitched battles' in a flash. Now guess who would have the R.E.s? It wouldn't be the ones spawning in.
demonkiller 12 G.L.O.R.Y Public Disorder. 315	Posted - 2014.01.08 03:28:00 - [20] - Quote i only just thought about this when i glanced your thread, but you get ISK MAINLY for time spent in battle right? what if when in redline a) you dont get ISK for time in game or ISK related to any actions taken while in redline and b) no WP are awarded for ANY action in redline

Emerald Bellerophon Nenikekamen 78	Posted - 2014.01.08 03:30:00 - [21] - Quote Rather than invincibility inside the 'safe zone', how about invisibility? Players become visible and shootable once they start shooting, but have a cloak until then or the time they leave. Snipers are therefore useless inside the safe zone, since they can't shoot without becoming targets, but redline farming is risky, since it invites a cloaked ambush.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 98	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:24:00 - [22] - Quote Greetings, and Happy New Year too. There may be two points of view posting here about "enemies firing from the protection of the REDZONE" (Just some advice: Please don't get into the habit of calling it "red-LINE", because redline is a tactical condition that we WANT to force on enemy teams sometimes... I think what we're discussing here is the redZONE at the edge of the map). There's a point of view regarding WINNING the district by capturing/holding the majority of Null Points. Those of us who are interested in doing that in every match don't always mind the enemy firing on us from the redzone that much. Even the best enemy snipers can irritate us, delay us from taking the objectives, or even successfully protect the enemy's "Home Letter", but they seldom stop your team from claiming and holding the majority of objectives. So... If self-interested players prefer to rack up kills as a sniper in the hills, or advanced players choose to defend a null cannon by staking it out from the nearby redzone, or if less-confident players prefer to be snipers from safe redzones instead of getting annoyingly slaughtered in the open...I say good for them, and I respect their chosen path. I'm annoyed by their success sometimes (ouch, ouch---ouch, dang it, quit picking me off!), but I respect them as legitimate adversaries. But I suspect the OTHER point of view in this thread is about maximizing your KILL-SCORE as your primary satisfaction (often your only satisfaction), and not being concerned with capturing null point rubbish or helping your team hold onto the keys for winning the match. You want the personal satisfaction of bagging "those red cheaters" who are using a part of the map that prevents you from collecting their heads . Okay, I'm not the kind of player YOU are, but... Even if I try to sympathize with your issue, I don't think CCP has any reason to sympathize with it. If you notice, the devs almost always place a few gun installations and CRUs deliberately in a team's redzone too---they seem to endorse the redzone's importance in providing a buffer area that players can deliberately "exploit" as a strong safety/last-ditch defense, and that enemy attackers can't EASILY smash or delouse. Whichever viewpoint you take in this thread,... if the redzone exploitation by enemy players is FRUSTRATING THE HECK OUT OF YOU during the match, then the way the redzone is designed right now IS serving its purpose,...the purpose to slow you down from travelling the map safely... draw you into private gunfights with some entrenched sniper whose actions half the time aren't even a threat to us winning this match.... and distract you into wasting your resources on a hilltop, when sometimes we need your skills to help us back here in the center of town. We players are still sort of slow on understanding tactics in this game,... but the devs aren't slow.
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 667	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:44:00 - [23] - Quote Celesta Augnum is entirely right. If you support no red-line then jump on the Open World bandwagon, where battles would not be confined to the nice little groupings of buildings and objectives we have now but would instead have the ability to roll across several districts, maps and be a build your own grouping of blues situation. Allowing roaming gangs to engage roaming gangs and actually have the qualities of a real battle rather than 3, 2, 1, fire at the reds that we have now. Lobby is what OP seems frustrated with because it means he can't engage whomever he wants. LogiGod earns his pips
Pete B Blood Unit 13 Zero-Day 72	Posted - 2014.01.08 18:05:00 - [24] - Quote Meee One wrote: Another 'let us spawn reap our enemies' thread. And from an alliance member too...for shame! There's no way this could be abused except ya know...if your enemies surround you with HAVs. Stomping shouldn't be encouraged. The short term invincibility would mean ambushers can't kill you, but you can kill them. Within the 30 secs they would of had time to run off with an LAV brought into the bubble, or kill off some of the ambushers/spawn stompers. I'm trying to make sure that people aren't spawn camped or redlined.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 489	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:26:00 - [25] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Its an easy fix that people have said for months. No one can shoot in/out of the redline. Problem solved That "fix" creates separate but similar issues: A) Enemies just wait and massacre people as they're coming out of the redline. B)Players in the redline will tip-toe out just enough to shoot, then go back in when they're being fired upon. Try to correct B by making it so people can't go back into the redline, and A becomes an even worse problem. Right.. because people dont camp the redline, or hide in it already... at least in my version, people have to take a risk, and you cant be killed at your spawn point.. And like someone else said, you have the whole redline to break out, find a spot not camped. Thats not even viable now. People spawn, run farther INTO the redline, and snipe. Makes for amazing gameplay
P14GU3 The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 489	Posted - 2014.01.08 19:37:00 - [26] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Its an easy fix that people have said for months. No one can shoot in/out of the redline. Problem solved Yeah. That's the shittiest solution I ever heard of. You just want to limit what the players can do. But it should be the other way around: Give them more options. So the best solution in my opinion would be something like remove the redline. No instant death when you go there. Instead the MCC should target you. But you are still able to take cover. It should be very hard to get into the redline, but not impossible like it currently is. I dont see how its a ****** solution? The only thing it limits is snipers in the redline and spawn camping, both major issues in dust (and many fps.) Removing the redline solves the sniper problem but not spawn camping, so i think you have the worse idea. Although, i would be happier with no redline, rather than what we have now
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2014.01.09 17:35:00 - [27] - Quote Meee One wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Removing the redline will only lead to spawn camping, just like any overrun CRU. The idea of a protective force field that no one can shoot into or out of is a good one. I don't like the idea of invincibility and it is open to abuse. There should be a time limit for how long you can stay in the protective bubble and once you leave you can't re-enter. If the reds have your team confined you have the ability to form up as a team and breakout, this would lead to pitched battles and some strategy rather than the individual spawning and dying or hiding we have now. More 'let us spawn reap our enemies'. Using dynamic words doesn't hide your true intentions. R.E.s would end those 'pitched battles' in a flash. Now guess who would have the R.E.s? It wouldn't be the ones spawning in. No, I am trying to stop the redline dynamics as they exist where those being redlined have no opportunity to organize a defense or do anything but duck down and hope to survive a few seconds. A force field gives those players protection and allows them to organize and call in vehicles to breakout of the redline. However, they have been redlined, they shouldn't be able to be protected forever nor should they be allowed to kill while invulnerable. They have to fight if the want to win but they should get the chance to fight, not just spawn and die or hide, they should be given a chance but not an advantage. Believe me, I have been redlined and spawn camped many more times than vice-versa, I hate it no matter which side of it I'm on, just like I hate pub stomps.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2014.01.09 17:46:00 - [28] - Quote Pete B wrote: Meee One wrote: Another 'let us spawn reap our enemies' thread. And from an alliance member too...for shame! There's no way this could be abused except ya know...if your enemies surround you with HAVs. Stomping shouldn't be encouraged. The short term invincibility would mean ambushers can't kill you, but you can kill them. Within the 30 secs they would of had time to run off with an LAV brought into the bubble, or kill off some of the ambushers/spawn stompers. I'm trying to make sure that people aren't spawn camped or redlined. Redlining a team is a legitimate tactic/goal. You are trying to confine your enemy, what ruins the game play is that once redlined there is almost no viable way for that team to regroup, leading to boring fights and a waiting for the inevitable to happen . The redlined team needs time and protection to regroup but it shouldn't be easily exploitable. Being able to have 16-16 fights is much better than a series of 1-16 fights.
sammus420 Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 358	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:41:00 - [29] - Quote Players inside their own redline should have a 2 minute timer to get out. If they don't leave, they die. Thats enough time to call in vehicles or to group up, or do whatever is necessary to coordinate an escape. If they try to run back into their redline after leaving it, then they get a 20 second timer just like everyone else.


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