DUST Search - [Request] single-missile dumbfire for swarm launcher ability

Ulysses Knapse wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

1) No, that is not how a swarm launcher do. Swarm launchers don't just fly at the general direction, they will definitely hit the locked on object unless something blocks the path.

Or unless the target outruns the missiles. Also, they do fly at the general direction of the target. They just do it very accurately.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Yes a sidearm is a good defense weapon at close range, but who mentioned close range?

I'm not sure if you realize this, but I don't need you to mention something for me to bring something up. It's a given that the Swarm Launcher, in its default firing mode, is best at long ranges. Therefore, it shouldn't be effective at short range against a target it's not designed to combat. That's why I brought it up. Not because of anything that you said.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

My idea has less hassle to use, its more reliable, and easily balanced as well.

1. Less hassle? That depends, how does it work? You never even said how it would work. Also, why is less hassle a good thing?

2. More reliable, you say? Perhaps. But is that a good thing? After all, it is a weapon designed for anti-vehicle usage, it shouldn't be too reliable against infantry.

3. Easily balanced? What does it have that my idea doesn't that makes it "easily balanced"? I'm curious.

Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7799	Posted - 2014.01.06 03:27:00 - [1] - Quote In every other shooter with emphasis on vehicles, the AV players are still effective against infantry. Battlefield games for example have the AV weapons as equipment, this allows AV players to effective as regular infantry, and as AV. In Dust however, playing AV means you have to sacrifice anti-infantry capabilities, and makes you a sitting duck against most players; sure you can fit an SMG, but that has very limited range which makes most mid-range engagements certain death. The most frustrating thing about playing AV in Dust is the inability to effectively defend against infantry while fighting vehicles, you could spawn with a swarm launcher with lots of damage mods ready to battle a tank, and then get killed by a regular infantry player before you even see the tank. Someone may say some crap like "use teamwork, have your squad defend you I'm not going to suggest turning light AV weapons into equipment, that would require a lot of rebalancing, and its probably too radical to realistically happen. The solution is to have all AV handheld weapons be viable against infantry. Forge gun can kill infantry, a plasma cannon can kill infantry, but not the swarm launcher. The swarm launcher used to have capabilities back in the Replication build in closed beta, it was very overpowered, but I believe the swarm launcher can have it back in a balanced way that wont be overpowered. Instead of firing the entire swarm while in dumbfire mode (holding L1 could initiate dumbfire mode) in one overpowered cluster of doom, it should fire individual missiles one by one, and with a very low fire rate (like 1 missiles every 2 second). This would allow swarm launchers to be used against infantry for self defense, but without being OP. Specific details like the fire rate can be tweaked accordingly if dumbfire would be OP or UP against infantry. Thanks for reading. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
zibathy numbertwo Nox Aeterna Security 323	Posted - 2014.01.06 03:46:00 - [2] - Quote I think one missile that does 200 damage in a small splash isn't that much to ask. Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1030	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:06:00 - [3] - Quote I think this would be a better idea. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7800	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:14:00 - [4] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: I think this would be a better idea. No single-missile Dumbfire > half-assed general direction infantry lockon, that just sounds frustrating Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1030	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:18:00 - [5] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I think this would be a better idea. No single-missile Dumbfire > half-assed general direction infantry lockon, that just sounds frustrating Care to elaborate why your suggestion is superior? My idea would keep the basic functionality of the weapon in tact. Yours would not. And please tell me why it sounds so frustrating. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 96	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:27:00 - [6] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I think this would be a better idea. No single-missile Dumbfire > half-assed general direction infantry lockon, that just sounds frustrating Care to elaborate why your suggestion is superior? My idea would not change the base functionality of the weapon. Yours would. And please tell me why it sounds so frustrating. Because just like you state in your post, the general tracking would turn into a luck game. Top Wants: Explosive Diversity, Installation Skills, Passive Scan Boost, Myofibril Stimulant Boost Grenade Throw Speed
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7800	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:29:00 - [7] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I think this would be a better idea. No single-missile Dumbfire > half-assed general direction infantry lockon, that just sounds frustrating Care to elaborate why your suggestion is superior? My idea would not change the base functionality of the weapon. Yours would. And please tell me why it sounds so frustrating. So you come to my thread to link your own thread and tell me how you think your idea is better, without any reasoning or explanation of how its better. I disagree with you, and now the burden of proof is on me? I want a weapon that hits where I aim it at, not something that just flies in the general direction of my target. That's unreliable. Splash damage on the swarm launcher on the swarm launcher is an extremely tiny number anyway, it can be increased and all, but I don't think you bothered to check SL splash radius and damage for your thread. When some infantry is shooting at me with their rifles that can kill me in seconds, I don't want to have to waste time locking, especially if it takes far longer like you're suggesting. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1030	Posted - 2014.01.06 04:52:00 - [8] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: So you come to my thread to link your own thread and tell me you think your idea is better, without any reasoning or explanation of how its better. I disagree with you, and now the burden of proof is on me? The burden of proof is on both of us, my friend. We're both making claims here. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I want a weapon that hits where I aim it at, not something that just flies in the general direction of my target. That's unreliable. Well that's how a Swarm Launcher do. They fly in the general direction of their target, with varying degrees of accuracy. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Splash damage on the swarm launcher on the swarm launcher is an extremely tiny number anyway, it can be increased and all, but I don't think you bothered to check SL splash radius and damage for your thread. Indeed it can. Also, do I detect a hint of ad hominem in that statement? By the way, I certainly did check. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: When some infantry is shooting at me with their rifles that can kill me in seconds, I don't want to have to waste time locking, especially if it takes far longer like you're suggesting. Every weapon has its limitations. That's how it should be. At close-range, your sidearm should be more useful for defense. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7800	Posted - 2014.01.06 05:24:00 - [9] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: So you come to my thread to link your own thread and tell me you think your idea is better, without any reasoning or explanation of how its better. I disagree with you, and now the burden of proof is on me? The burden of proof is on both of us, my friend. We're both making claims here. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I want a weapon that hits where I aim it at, not something that just flies in the general direction of my target. That's unreliable. Well that's how a Swarm Launcher do. They fly in the general direction of their target, with varying degrees of accuracy. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Splash damage on the swarm launcher on the swarm launcher is an extremely tiny number anyway, it can be increased and all, but I don't think you bothered to check SL splash radius and damage for your thread. Indeed it can. Also, do I detect a hint of ad hominem in that statement? By the way, I certainly did check. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: When some infantry is shooting at me with their rifles that can kill me in seconds, I don't want to have to waste time locking, especially if it takes far longer like you're suggesting. Every weapon has its limitations. That's how it should be. At close-range, your sidearm should be more useful for defense. 1) No, that is not how a swarm launcher do. Swarm launchers don't just fly at the general direction, they will definitely hit the locked on object unless something blocks the path. Swarm launchers are reliable, and your proposed method is not. I have never seen a swarm launcher unimpeded by obstacles just hit around a vehicle. You're trying to make it sound like your proposal is somehow within the norm for a swarm launcher, but it isn't, and more importantly it makes it far less desirable than what I propose because of the unreliability. Even if that truly is how swarm launchers do, that does not make it a better proposal. 2) No ad hominem, just thought it was something you needed to be aware of since you want it to mainly kill infantry with splash. I don't know why you would claim that you certainly did check since you definitely made no mention of increasing splash, but made mention of reducing splash if needed; if you had really checked you would know there is no way it would ever need a reduction in splash. 3) While I agree every weapon should have limitations, your proposed limitations are not good for the problem this thread is offering solutions for. Yes a sidearm is a good defense weapon at close range, but who mentioned close range? I said regular infantry can kill you in seconds, and that is not limited to close range; combat rifle is decent at mid range, and the rail and scrambler rifle can perform well in long ranges. Like I stated in the OP, just using an SMG or something won't cut it when your enemies are not at close range. The time it takes to lock on to a target (if longer than regular lockon) will mean death, so it won't be a viable defense, and the whole point of this thread is to get AV a viable defense against other infantry. My idea has less hassle to use, its more reliable, and easily balanced as well. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5363	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:11:00 - [10] - Quote Would just like to say that in Battlefield, the Engineer weapon is JUST as effective as the normal assault rifle up close and medium range. At longer range it's damage dropoff is more severe, making the assault rifle better at long range engagements. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos

Ghermard-ol Dizeriois Maphia Clan Corporation 52	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:31:00 - [11] - Quote Old thing but still worth to be mentioned, look here: Blind fire for Swarm Launchers. If you are an hacker, a cheater o a glitcher, you deserve death. In real life.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7817	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:39:00 - [12] - Quote I want it Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 896	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:47:00 - [13] - Quote I've always figured commando suits might be a nice compliment to swarms, but I haven't trained them yet, and now swarms are useless. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1044	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:40:00 - [14] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: 1) No, that is not how a swarm launcher do. Swarm launchers don't just fly at the general direction, they will definitely hit the locked on object unless something blocks the path. Or unless the target outruns the missiles. Also, they do fly at the general direction of the target. They just do it very accurately. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Yes a sidearm is a good defense weapon at close range, but who mentioned close range? I'm not sure if you realize this, but I don't need you to mention something for me to bring something up. It's a given that the Swarm Launcher, in its default firing mode, is best at long ranges. Therefore, it shouldn't be effective at short range against a target it's not designed to combat. That's why I brought it up. Not because of anything that you said. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: My idea has less hassle to use, its more reliable, and easily balanced as well. 1. Less hassle? That depends, how does it work? You never even said how it would work. Also, why is less hassle a good thing? 2. More reliable, you say? Perhaps. But is that a good thing? After all, it is a weapon designed for anti-vehicle usage, it shouldn't be too reliable against infantry. 3. Easily balanced? What does it have that my idea doesn't that makes it "easily balanced"? I'm curious. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7838	Posted - 2014.01.06 23:03:00 - [15] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: 1) No, that is not how a swarm launcher do. Swarm launchers don't just fly at the general direction, they will definitely hit the locked on object unless something blocks the path. Or unless the target outruns the missiles. Also, they do fly at the general direction of the target. They just do it very accurately. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Yes a sidearm is a good defense weapon at close range, but who mentioned close range? I'm not sure if you realize this, but I don't need you to mention something for me to bring something up. It's a given that the Swarm Launcher, in its default firing mode, is best at long ranges. Therefore, it shouldn't be effective at short range against a target it's not designed to combat. That's why I brought it up. Not because of anything that you said. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: My idea has less hassle to use, its more reliable, and easily balanced as well. 1. Less hassle? That depends, how does it work? You never even said how it would work. Also, why is less hassle a good thing? 2. More reliable, you say? Perhaps. But is that a good thing? After all, it is a weapon designed for anti-vehicle usage, it shouldn't be too reliable against infantry. 3. Easily balanced? What does it have that my idea doesn't that makes it "easily balanced"? I'm curious. I never said it should be effective at short range. In fact I specifically mentioned it needs be useful for dealing with threats from rifles from MEDIUM AND LONG RANGE, reread what I said. Yes you're allowed to bring up things I didn't mention, but you incorrectly seemed to be under the impression that I want it to be useful at close range when I never said I wanted that; when I mentioned how fast rifles can kill you in response to the lockon time, you replied with this "Every weapon has its limitations. . . At close-range, your sidearm should be more useful for defense" based on this response it seems that you either believed that I wanted it to be useful in close range, or you just felt like replying with a completely irrelevant point. Seriously, why do you keep repeating to me that it shouldn't be effective at close range when I never claimed it should be? Alright, I'll go more into details in how it should work. L1 should be changed to lock-on, and R1 should be the single-missile dumbfire. The missile should fly straight and accurately, and with a dela of around 2 seconds between shots. Around 200 splash damage (as zibathy numbertwo suggests) and with a small splash radius (perhaps 2 or 3 meters). Its much less hassle because there is no need to spend time on lock-on, time in which you could just easily get shot in the face. ROF, radius, and damage can be tweaked as needed for balancing. I feel like I have to re-explain the whole point of this thread to you. The whole premise is that AV should not have to be defenseless against regular infantry when outside the range of their sidearm; yes the swarm launcher is designed for anti-vehicle (like you pointed out), but that does not justify making it unreliable against infantry, especially when there is great need for it to be a competent weapon for dealing with infantry (like I explained in the OP). If you make the weapon so unreliable and unpredictable infantry, it will be terrible for defending against infantry (the whole point of this thread); I wouldn't want to use my rifle if it fluctuates between being great and being awful in unpredictable ways completely beyond my control. So yes, more reliable is a good thing. Infantry battles should not be a game of chance, but a game of skill; if your missile misses, it should be because of your poor aiming, not because of probability beyond your control as a player. Every time you comment on a request thread of mine, you always try to make it about YOUR requests and ideas. I get that you have ideas that you want to share, but If I wanted to discuss your ideas, I would go on your thread and do so there. I am not replying to your comments in this thread anymore, I'm sick of this. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
bogeyman m Learning Coalition College 8	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:45:00 - [16] - Quote I like this idea in general, but I only scanned through most of the posts once they started reading the same. To summarize what I took from this: 1) R1 single fire dumb missile. Line of sight only. No guidance - like a poor man's forge gun. Slow RoF, better for mid-to-long range. Works on both infantry and vehicles. 2) L1+R1 multiple fire smart missile. (Improved) guidance (versus current) and effective only on non-infantry. I will add longer lock range and faster lock times are also required, as is faster missile speed.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8079	Posted - 2014.01.15 17:18:00 - [17] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: I like this idea in general, but I only scanned through most of the posts once they started reading the same. To summarize what I took from this: 1) R1 single fire dumb missile. Line of sight only. No guidance - like a poor man's forge gun. Slow RoF, better for mid-to-long range. Works on both infantry and vehicles. 2) L1+R1 multiple fire smart missile. (Improved) guidance (versus current) and effective only on non-infantry. I will add longer lock range and faster lock times are also required, as is faster missile speed. Yup, that's pretty much it Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 589	Posted - 2014.01.15 19:19:00 - [18] - Quote im not sure how well it would work ammo wise. and asides from that the small missile turret. probably does more damage per missile than the current swarm launcher anyways. i may not have played during the days of the free fire swarm launchers. but the only issues i see arising from such a thing would be ppl killing themselves with it. or it being spammed in mass amounts in the general direction of an objective. but since individual nades pretty much have the power of 2-3 swarm missiles combined. sure y not? its not like we have other things that should come first like PVE.
bogeyman m Learning Coalition College 12	Posted - 2014.01.15 19:46:00 - [19] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: im not sure how well it would work ammo wise. and asides from that the small missile turret. probably does more damage per missile than the current swarm launcher anyways. i may not have played during the days of the free fire swarm launchers. but the only issues i see arising from such a thing would be ppl killing themselves with it. or it being spammed in mass amounts in the general direction of an objective. but since individual nades pretty much have the power of 2-3 swarm missiles combined. sure y not? its not like we have other things that should come first like PVE. You could easily add a +1 ammo count per reload solely for the dumb-fire missile - you reload, it's gone - without throwing anything else out of wack. It wouldn't be the primary function of the weapon after all. You could also have a 10m (or so) safety range that the missile would have to travel before arming itself. I don't think spamming would be much of an issue if there was only 1 dumb-fire per reload - for a proto SwL that would be a maximum of 1 missile every 4.5 seconds...
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8303	Posted - 2014.01.22 16:55:00 - [20] - Quote Still want Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+



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