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Free Beers
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1709
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 22:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Today we discuss how well CCP balances dust. If you guessed poorly you get a cookie. So I am going to list out a few GÇ£whyGÇ¥ and leave it open for you nerds to come up with solutions, because frankly l canGÇÖt be bothered.
1.For those of you that play eve you can easily recognize the design elements that also exist in dust. It should also be painfully evident that ccp took bits and pieces and not the idea in a whole. Now application of all the eve design into dust was, from a project stand point impossible and acceptable. The issue is what they choose and how the applied it.
2.One of my biggest issues to this day is lack of proper damage types in dust. Yes CCP Wolfman we know we are too stupid to understand it. Thank you for saving us from our own ignorance. The 4 damage types from eve would have made balancing weapons and suits easier and more dynamic.
3.Vehicle vs Infantry. Yes I said infantry and not AV. There is a pretty good reason for it too. Tanks spend most of their time killing infantry. IGÇÖm sure if we saw the stats behind it that tanks would get 95% or more of their kills from infantry. Now I know that in PC and some competitive FW matches you have tankers going after other tankers. ThatGÇÖs more the exception to the rule really. At best you have a bunch of tank spam trying to kill infantry and a few tankers actually going after other tanks. Since 1.7 I have seen to many matches in pub or fw where tanks with blasters just farm infantry and ignore other tanks completely. Now I have a tanking toon and I am not anti-tank, it just feels like an XL suit with 90% resists vs small arms fire.
4.CCP has decided on using a range vs damage slider. The problem with that is in dust the close quarters combat (cqc) is a much higher risk vs reward trade off. So the choice of damage mods or ehp is as fair as it gets. Now the longer range weapons such as rail rifle, laser (of old sadly, sniper. I use all these weapons and you get the ability to stack damage mods (high slots), armor plates (low slots), sit on armor hives.
5.Frames. Frames. Frames. Really wanted to give us some sp sinks didnGÇÖt you CCP? So get of them. The whole idea of small is faster and low ehp vs slow and more ehp is done. With the ttk and hit detection improvement it seems an unneeded restriction.
6.So I have to rant about something. The thing that I find inexcusable is how in some maps I canGÇÖt see my reticle. I have spent many of times adjusting my settings with little to no improvement. Yes I am talking about Manus Peak.
I could go on but canGÇÖt be bothered. So add your own issues or offer a solution.
[CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm
[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit
[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
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CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
2571
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
REs magically detonating AFTER the person that threw them dies...
logic at its finest.
Common Sense and Logic are 2 things you have to forget when posting on these forums.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
3399
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:REs magically detonating AFTER the person that threw them dies...
logic at its finest.
You can detonate them while you're bleeding out. After you respawn, you still have control over your REs until you place more.
We used to have a time machine
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Zaria Min Deir
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
421
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:REs magically detonating AFTER the person that threw them dies...
logic at its finest.
Well, not the only way REs are effed up...
Beers, yes on most points, but I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say about Frames.... Remove them?
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
3399
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think the biggest problem is the intended use vs how the community interprets the use.
If you're not using it as intended, it either seems UP (like scouts) or becomes OP (LLAVs before collision damage was nerfed and they were removed)
We used to have a time machine
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Free Beers
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1712
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 22:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I think the biggest problem is the intended use vs how the community interprets the use.
If you're not using it as intended, it either seems UP (like scouts) or becomes OP (LLAVs before collision damage was nerfed and they were removed)
You hit the nail on the head here. CCP always assumes we will use things as intended. Perfects example is caldari logi and LLAV. We will all look for the best way to win regardless of intended use
[CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm
[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit
[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
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Appia Vibbia
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
523
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Issues: the dark is too dark, and the light is too bright.
Pretty much adding to your #6, I find it strange that the interior of maps have very poor internal lighting. There are some but they are few and far between without illuminating enough of the area. And the Light blue HUD just does not work with a game that has glare. Glare does not add immersion, it just makes people frustrated with your sci-fi settings.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
Cass Caul is no longer my alt
[email protected]
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Free Beers
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1712
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 22:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:REs magically detonating AFTER the person that threw them dies...
logic at its finest.
Well, not the only way REs are effed up... Beers, yes on most points, but I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say about Frames.... Remove them?
Zaria ccp did the whole small, med, frame thing to increase sp sink. That and it confines design because they all have to be 1 o of the 3
[CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm
[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit
[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising
607
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Because ccp is learning, this is (to my knowledge) their first fps so they get things wrong sometimes |
Free Beers
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1712
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 22:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Because ccp is learning, this is (to my knowledge) their first fps so they get things wrong sometimes
Sadly, no. There are devs that work on dust that have worked on other fps games. Not to mention that ccp has been working on dust longer than normal companies work on triple A shooters.
[CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm
[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit
[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
|
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
966
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Posted - 2014.01.05 22:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think the whole concept of transferring damage types from eve to dust is poor.
Dust should be left simpler in that regard. If there has to be damage types, the effect should be small enough.
Tank spam getting onto your nerves?
An improvement:
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Zaria Min Deir
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
421
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Posted - 2014.01.05 23:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:REs magically detonating AFTER the person that threw them dies...
logic at its finest.
Well, not the only way REs are effed up... Beers, yes on most points, but I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say about Frames.... Remove them? Zaria ccp did the whole small, med, frame thing to increase sp sink. That and it confines design because they all have to be 1 o of the 3 Oh I get that part and I agree, I just think you missed a word in the OP...
I think it would make more sense (if the SP sink was needed) to have one basic racial frame (or at least just one skill) per race, that unlocks the various specialized suits in the race. Now, this basic frame wouldn't necessarily have to be a medium frame/assault even...
Or you know. They could have less SP sinks in general. As if.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Rusty Shallows
688
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Posted - 2014.01.05 23:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I think the biggest problem is the intended use vs how the community interprets the use.
If you're not using it as intended, it either seems UP (like scouts) or becomes OP (LLAVs before collision damage was nerfed and they were removed) You hit the nail on the head here. CCP always assumes we will use things as intended. Perfects example is caldari logi and LLAV. We will all look for the best way to win regardless of intended use The inner workings might as well be a Black Box. As you eluded to in the first point. I would make secular offerings of Lamb to Wolfman if it meant being able to pick their brains on the design frameworks. My guess is they are playing things a bit by ear, hence the results we're used to getting.
MCC Lounge Lizard
Forums > Game
Fix the game CCP
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Lazy Scumbag
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
90
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Posted - 2014.01.05 23:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think most of the problems with this game can be attributed to level design. If you use up close and personal weapons, you have to cross vast expanses of wide open spaces under the watch of snipers, and now even worse, rail rifle campers. Vehicles have too much room to play (stairways are still LAV accessible).
It creates a sense of space, but spawning vehicles for transport is a waste of time and ISK, unless you can use said vehicle to troll some infantry.
Damage types are calculated with a baseline that is never used, since actual damage will be either positively or negatively affected by shields or armor. (should start at 100% and go down from there based on resistance) |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
557
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 23:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:REs magically detonating AFTER the person that threw them dies...
logic at its finest.
You can detonate them while you're bleeding out. After you respawn, you still have control over your REs until you place more.
So you can detonate an RE while bleeding out,but you can't turn your head to let teammates know if it's clear to revive you?
I agree with CUBS.Logic Fail.
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1592
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 23:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
I refuse to believe that their constant fumbling and introduction and nerfing of a new set of so called FOTM stuff every couple of months is due to their incompitance, they just can't be that bad.
its a deliberate strategy to sell aur items and boosters to keep people wanting to spec into the next best thing.
I bet they're laughing their asses off, watching us discuss various balance issues that they offset by intention.
In either case, not going to fanfest, I might emberass myself.
(A few obvious deliberate scenarios)
- Call logi suit (in retrospect) were obviously OP from the start, did they not see it? And a suit nerf, an armor buff and a shield nerf later an its very weak indeed. Can you honestly say that the old cal logi suit was OP compared to todays Gal logi that can tank way more armor than the cal logi ever could tank shields, and get it back at a 140 hp per second on top of it?
- The whole lets sell aur contact nades very cheaply and nerf them to hell a short time after.
- The whole flaylock fiasko, from god mode to close to useless, same goes somewhat for lasers.
- I could go on.
If I'm wrong, and there really isn't any business strategy behind all this nonsensical balancing scrubbery, if this is all really done with intent to improve the game, well, I'm at a loss for words....
http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
557
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 23:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:I refuse to believe that their constant fumbling and introduction and nerfing of a new set of so called FOTM stuff every couple of months is due to their incompitance, they just can't be that bad.
its a deliberate strategy to sell aur items and boosters to keep people wanting to spec into the next best thing.
I bet they're laughing their asses off, watching us discuss various balance issues that they offset by intention.
In either case, not going to fanfest, I might emberass myself.
(A few obvious deliberate scenarios)
- Call logi suit (in retrospect) were obviously OP from the start, did they not see it? And a suit nerf, an armor buff and a shield nerf later an its very weak indeed. Can you honestly say that the old cal logi suit was OP compared to todays Gal logi that can tank way more armor than the cal logi ever could tank shields, and get it back at a 140 hp per second on top of it?
- The whole lets sell aur contact nades very cheaply and nerf them to hell a short time after.
- The whole flaylock fiasko, from god mode to close to useless, same goes somewhat for lasers.
- I could go on.
If I'm wrong, and there really isn't any business strategy behind all this nonsensical balancing scrubbery, if this is all really done with intent to improve the game, well, I'm at a loss for words....
Carrot-on-a-stick development strategy my man.
The sad and,quite honestly,frightening thing is that the other option is that maybe none of it is intentional at all,and they just suck at making games.
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1457
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 00:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Today we discuss how well CCP balances dust. If you guessed poorly you get a cookie. So I am going to list out a few GÇ£whyGÇ¥ and leave it open for you nerds to come up with solutions, because frankly l canGÇÖt be bothered.
1.For those of you that play eve you can easily recognize the design elements that also exist in dust. It should also be painfully evident that ccp took bits and pieces and not the idea in a whole. Now application of all the eve design into dust was, from a project stand point impossible and acceptable. The issue is what they choose and how the applied it.
2.One of my biggest issues to this day is lack of proper damage types in dust. Yes CCP Wolfman we know we are too stupid to understand it. Thank you for saving us from our own ignorance. The 4 damage types from eve would have made balancing weapons and suits easier and more dynamic.
3.Vehicle vs Infantry. Yes I said infantry and not AV. There is a pretty good reason for it too. Tanks spend most of their time killing infantry. IGÇÖm sure if we saw the stats behind it that tanks would get 95% or more of their kills from infantry. Now I know that in PC and some competitive FW matches you have tankers going after other tankers. ThatGÇÖs more the exception to the rule really. At best you have a bunch of tank spam trying to kill infantry and a few tankers actually going after other tanks. Since 1.7 I have seen to many matches in pub or fw where tanks with blasters just farm infantry and ignore other tanks completely. Now I have a tanking toon and I am not anti-tank, it just feels like an XL suit with 90% resists vs small arms fire.
4.CCP has decided on using a range vs damage slider. The problem with that is in dust the close quarters combat (cqc) is a much higher risk vs reward trade off. So the choice of damage mods or ehp is as fair as it gets. Now the longer range weapons such as rail rifle, laser (of old sadly, sniper. I use all these weapons and you get the ability to stack damage mods (high slots), armor plates (low slots), sit on armor hives.
5.Frames. Frames. Frames. Really wanted to give us some sp sinks didnGÇÖt you CCP? So get of them. The whole idea of small is faster and low ehp vs slow and more ehp is done. With the ttk and hit detection improvement it seems an unneeded restriction.
6.So I have to rant about something. The thing that I find inexcusable is how in some maps I canGÇÖt see my reticle. I have spent many of times adjusting my settings with little to no improvement. Yes I am talking about Manus Peak.
I could go on but canGÇÖt be bothered. So add your own issues or offer a solution.
1 - That comment is a little off EvE based concepts are here yes, but which ones do you specifically unbalance?
2 - There are 4 ammo types, E, EH, PH, P. Each of the racial rifles have there own ammo type.
3. - Been saying that for time immemorial.
4. - What's the point, long range weapons still nicely to my shotgun.
5. - Hopefully current TTK will be tweaked soon. Devolving your choices is a poor idea.
6. Turn your brightness down to 40, contrast at 55.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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