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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
868
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Posted - 2014.01.04 05:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a five second idea. It's probably bad.
Anyhow, I think for snipers to work well, they need to have good perches outside the redline, and yes, viably pointed towards objectives. However, snipers are both avoidable and removable if you know they're there. Unfortunately, current design leads it to being a role for players who don't want to play actively, or just want to score kills, without any focus on objectives.
Would it not give snipers back their role as area denial infantry and watchdogs/long-range scouts for them to have a laser sight activated when they're in ADS, which can be visibly detected by a merc who's being targeted in their sights? So an attentive merc could evade a sniper bolt before it's fired. A directional indicator, similar to the damage indicator, could make it possible for you to gauge their vague location as well.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
340
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Posted - 2014.01.04 07:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Unfortunately, current design leads it to being a role for players who don't want to play actively, or just want to score kills, without any focus on objectives.
This is caused by a lack of abilities like able to paint targets and such.
Quote:Would it not give snipers back their role as area denial infantry and watchdogs/long-range scouts for them to have a laser sight activated when they're in ADS, which can be visibly detected by a merc who's being targeted in their sights?
No, this would almost completely disable their ability to function with any kind of effectiveness. The whole point of a sniper is to support/overwatch/kill from an unseen distance. They're guardian angels.
Quote:So an attentive merc could evade a sniper bolt before it's fired. A directional indicator, similar to the damage indicator, could make it possible for you to gauge their vague location as well.
Ah, the REAL reason for wanting crap like this: getting killed by a sniper annoys me, please give me a way to find them without actually having to do anything. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
875
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 07:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Ah, the REAL reason for wanting crap like this: getting killed by a sniper annoys me, please give me a way to find them without actually having to do anything.
Actually, I'm a known sniper, though I haven't done it as much lately. I already feel snipers are pretty easy to avoid, hunt down, and kill. (I enjoy countersniping as much, if not more, than I enjoy sniping.)
But as I said, it was a musing, a thought. Based on how NPC snipers appear in a lot of games. I'd have to see it in practice in a PvP environment to know if it was balanceable or not.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
467
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Posted - 2014.01.04 08:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
personally i would love it especially when i am running around with my forge gun. Just give me a sign there is a sniper aiming at me and something that helps me direct my fire :) |
Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
371
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Posted - 2014.01.04 08:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
But let's be honest...
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1019
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 08:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:But let's be honest...
Who cares what some sniper has to say I care. I still think it's a terrible idea.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1177
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 09:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
The best solution for snipers is to remove the sniper rifle from the game.
Currently 99% of snipers are red line campers who do nothing to support the success of their team of the battle field. The end result of all this sniping is battles that feel empty with teams that are too small (snipers not actually functioning as part of them afterall) to hold or capture points on the battlefield.
Removing snipers would force all those red line players to get much closer to the action which would not only include them in Dust's risk reward mechanic but also force them to support their team inorder to be successful. In this context I am generalizing the word successful to mean both individually and as a team.
CCP would be the "brave developers" who actually got rid fo the useless non-team based sniping mechanic if they did this. The snipers who are team players would easily adapt and join in on the matches with the rest of us. The other snipers would get all their SP refunded and could donate their tears to my breakfast cup.
Fun > Realism
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Tonka Legacy
THIRD EARTH INCORPORATED Dark Taboo
19
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Posted - 2014.01.04 09:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:The best solution for snipers is to remove the sniper rifle from the game.
Currently 99% of snipers are red line campers who do nothing to support the success of their team of the battle field. The end result of all this sniping is battles that feel empty with teams that are too small (snipers not actually functioning as part of them afterall) to hold or capture points on the battlefield.
Removing snipers would force all those red line players to get much closer to the action which would not only include them in Dust's risk reward mechanic but also force them to support their team inorder to be successful. In this context I am generalizing the word successful to mean both individually and as a team.
CCP would be the "brave developers" who actually got rid fo the useless non-team based sniping mechanic if they did this. The snipers who are team players would easily adapt and join in on the matches with the rest of us. The other snipers would get all their SP refunded and could donate their tears to my breakfast cup. I understand what you mean about most snipers being no help, but its not a valid reason to get rid of snipers. I get lots of games where a blueberry who thinks he's to good to squad up flies around in a dropship near the spawn all game doing nothing. Does that mean they should get rid of dropships too? How about the low percentage of people who use plasma cannons? They don't provide much cover carrying that around, so should that be removed?
Now I have witnessed about 5 of my teammates red line sniping, we didn't capture the objective, but cloned the enemy thanks to those snipers. If snipers end up gone...I'll see you on the battlefield. You ever tango with a bull? |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
876
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 09:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mobius, look at the size of DUST maps. Do they really look like they're intended to be played with a shotgun? REALLY? It's a game that will be heavily reliant on vertical, long-range gameplay. That involves snipers. And lasers, because lasers own snipers in the face. And whatever the other two eventual long-range precision weapons for the other races end up being.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
281
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 09:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:The best solution for snipers is to remove the sniper rifle from the game.
Currently 99% of snipers are red line campers who do nothing to support the success of their team of the battle field. The end result of all this sniping is battles that feel empty with teams that are too small (snipers not actually functioning as part of them afterall) to hold or capture points on the battlefield.
Removing snipers would force all those red line players to get much closer to the action which would not only include them in Dust's risk reward mechanic but also force them to support their team inorder to be successful. In this context I am generalizing the word successful to mean both individually and as a team.
CCP would be the "brave developers" who actually got rid fo the useless non-team based sniping mechanic if they did this. The snipers who are team players would easily adapt and join in on the matches with the rest of us. The other snipers would get all their SP refunded and could donate their tears to my breakfast cup.
Most of the people I see circling the MCC and home spawn have AR's on them . Most people who team kill use AR's . Snipers are a known asset in the art of war . Just because YOU don't like them doesn't mean that they are not an asset and provide assistance . Simple bias that's all this is .
CCP removing sniping and watch how many would leave this game . It and AV are already the crappiest roles in the game threw lack of functionality and selection also the maps leave these roles wanting . You have to be a dropship pilot to be a sniper .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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Tonka Legacy
THIRD EARTH INCORPORATED Dark Taboo
21
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Posted - 2014.01.04 09:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Mobius Kaethis wrote:The best solution for snipers is to remove the sniper rifle from the game.
Currently 99% of snipers are red line campers who do nothing to support the success of their team of the battle field. The end result of all this sniping is battles that feel empty with teams that are too small (snipers not actually functioning as part of them afterall) to hold or capture points on the battlefield.
Removing snipers would force all those red line players to get much closer to the action which would not only include them in Dust's risk reward mechanic but also force them to support their team inorder to be successful. In this context I am generalizing the word successful to mean both individually and as a team.
CCP would be the "brave developers" who actually got rid fo the useless non-team based sniping mechanic if they did this. The snipers who are team players would easily adapt and join in on the matches with the rest of us. The other snipers would get all their SP refunded and could donate their tears to my breakfast cup. Most of the people I see circling the MCC and home spawn have AR's on them . Most people who team kill use AR's . Snipers are a known asset in the art of war . Just because YOU don't like them doesn't mean that they are not an asset and provide assistance . Simple bias that's all this is . CCP removing sniping and watch how many would leave this game . It and AV are already the crappiest roles in the game threw lack of functionality and selection also the maps leave these roles wanting . You have to be a dropship pilot to be a sniper . Well put, sums up what I was trying to say |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1179
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 10:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
The point I am making with my earlier comment is entirely retorical and meant to point out some major issues with the way sniping is implemented in the game.
Yes, there are other useless players. Sure, any class can be totally ineffective at helping a team. Of course, there are some snipers that actually do help a team win.
The issue that I am trying to point out, and this is what only one of you seemed to grasp, is that as it stands sniping is the only class of infantry (lets not get started on tanks) who's entire role on the battle field can be preformed adequately while still doing nothing to support the team. Now this is partially CCP's fault in that they have defined the role of the sniper far too narrowly by rewarding them only for killing which is by far the least useful thing that a sniper can do. CCP needs to rebuild the reward mechanic to allow snipers to get points for identifying targets for their team, suppressing targets, and other similar activities.
Additionally the risk reward mechanic needs to be altered. We see more officers sniper rifles on the field than any other officer weapon. This is because there are rewards for sniping that far outway the risks. In fact, for a redline sniper there are almost no risks involved, relative to the risks other infantry take on. If there are no rewards we are going to end up in games with 6 snipers which, while one poster here has identified as beneficial, is typically hugely detrimental to their team. Snipers need to be at more risk to decrease their numbers thus increasing the number of people actually playing in a battle. These changes should affect all people sitting in the redline not just snipers (thus eliminating your redline AR guy issue). A timer that results in clone death if in the redline for too long with be a simple solution to this problem.
Fun > Realism
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
342
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 10:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Based on how NPC snipers appear in a lot of games. I'd have to see it in practice in a PvP environment to know if it was balanceable or not.
NPC snipers appear that way in many games because designers are forced to hold the hands of impatient, incapable players. Snipers don't use laser sights, ever. For one, it's a dead give away of your position. For two, laser sights don't work at sniping ranges (+400m). Other games handle it with scope flash, another stupid thing that no sniper would ever get caught with.
You want to find a sniper, pick up your free sniper fit and look for them. Get an active scanner. Get a dropship. The same tools they use are available to you. But don't go asking for some free indicator just because you're annoyed by the fact that they're not running into the grinder with the rest of the cannon-fodder lemmings.
(Not YOU you, Soraya Xe, just anyone who thinks this way.) |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
877
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 10:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
I wasn't thinking for the benefit of me finding snipers. I was trying to think of a fix that might inspire snipers to go provide more area denial and less free kills. That would be best accomplished by giving players some manner of warning a sniper was targeting them (similar to vehicle lockon warnings).
Also, magic space lasers work at any range. ;)
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
284
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 10:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I wasn't thinking for the benefit of me finding snipers. I was trying to think of a fix that might inspire snipers to go provide more area denial and less free kills. That would be best accomplished by giving players some manner of warning a sniper was targeting them (similar to vehicle lockon warnings).
Also, magic space lasers work at any range. ;)
The warning is being shot and if it's not a head shot move and attempt to find cover . There are not too many places that are good sniping spots and that's prob why people redline and not the fact that they don't want to get " their hands dirty " , many have brought up the issue about the maps not being sniper friendly and the reason why dropships are used to reach certain areas but ( not calling anyone out ) I see FG's do the same thing .
People are complaining while this game and the maps are more inclined to favor infantry , not vehicles , not snipers or heavies even .
The only warnings that are needed in the game is and are swarm launcher lock warnings for vehicles . Now that is something needed .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
284
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 11:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:The point I am making with my earlier comment is entirely retorical and meant to point out some major issues with the way sniping is implemented in the game.
Yes, there are other useless players. Sure, any class can be totally ineffective at helping a team. Of course, there are some snipers that actually do help a team win.
The issue that I am trying to point out, and this is what only one of you seemed to grasp, is that as it stands sniping is the only class of infantry (lets not get started on tanks) who's entire role on the battle field can be preformed adequately while still doing nothing to support the team. Now this is partially CCP's fault in that they have defined the role of the sniper far too narrowly by rewarding them only for killing which is by far the least useful thing that a sniper can do. CCP needs to rebuild the reward mechanic to allow snipers to get points for identifying targets for their team, suppressing targets, and other similar activities.
Additionally the risk reward mechanic needs to be altered. We see more officers sniper rifles on the field than any other officer weapon. This is because there are rewards for sniping that far outway the risks. In fact, for a redline sniper there are almost no risks involved, relative to the risks other infantry take on. If there are no rewards we are going to end up in games with 6 snipers which, while one poster here has identified as beneficial, is typically hugely detrimental to their team. Snipers need to be at more risk to decrease their numbers thus increasing the number of people actually playing in a battle. These changes should affect all people sitting in the redline not just snipers (thus eliminating your redline AR guy issue). A timer that results in clone death if in the redline for too long with be a simple solution to this problem.
I believe and this might just be me but I believe that you see officer sniping weapons used and given out because people don't snipe . I'm a sniper and I only have 12 Thale's but tons of FG's , Shotguns and SMG's now two of those items I don't use or better yet rarely use so that is why I believe they are given in excess like that . That causes people to actually skill into that particular class to have access to that weapon . I can't or wouldn't classify killing enemies as doing nothing to support the team , you might have some that are not as good as others but you have to understand ( which I'm sure you do ) that an AR is used at a closer range as well as most of the weapons so the chances are the hit ratio's are greater than one using a sniper rifle , even more so with the hit detection .
Snipers face risks with counter snipers and hunting squads as well as tanks and every other risks that any class faces . People use dropships to hunt snipers as well so they or rather WE have risks and are some of the most hated in the game bar none .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1023
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 11:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:is that as it stands sniping is the only class of infantry (lets not get started on tanks) who's entire role on the battle field can be preformed adequately while still doing nothing to support the team. This stems from the fact that their "role" isn't actually a role, but rather a specialized form of combat.
Other classes have their role defined by what they do, but snipers have their role defined by how they do it. Assault is still assault, whether you're using a shotgun, an assault rifle or a mass driver. Logistics is still logistics, regardless of the specific equipment you're using or how you use it.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
345
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 13:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
We shouldn't even acknowledge Mobius. He's just an anti-sniper troll, who has his undies in a bunch because he got sniped a couple times.
As many of you know, I'm primarily a sniper, and a big defender of the class. I don't brag about my skill, nor have I ever once mentioned my K/D ratio. But to say I and other snipers like myself don't support our team is ignorance of a ridiculous magnitude.
First of all, I don't snipe from the redline, save for TWO extreme situations: -If my team is being redlined (usually by squads from 0uterHeaven, and the like) -To countersnipe an enemy sniping INTO my redline. Sniping from the redline other than in those cases is boring, and doesn't help the team. You can't see anything from back there. You can't cover objectives. You can't survey the map and give intel. Even if one WAS just trying to pad their K/D ratio, shooting from the redline would be a ridiculously slow way to do it. Unless your team is getting stomped, the only enemies that venture that far are in tanks, coming to blow up your installation turrets.
Second, no, I'm not running around down in the meat-grinder with the rest of the cannon-fodder. I openly admit to that. That's not what snipers do. I'm in a scout suit. A militia SMG can tear me apart in less than a second. I'm a glass cannon, and the one place I AM truly worthless is down on the ground, with squad or not. I am alone. Nobody else flies me to my position. I have no one watching my back. No one warning me about dropships coming for me, or spotting counter-snipers. The only defense I have if someone comes for me is a flaylock and AV grenades (for dropships. if it's infantry, I'm screwed) If I get clipped, I'm down, and no one is coming to revive me. But, those are RISKS I accept.
No, I find myself a perch. I make sure I can cover AT LEAST two objectives, or their immediate areas/avenues of approach. When my team is trying to push their way to an enemy null cannon, I'M the one softening up the heavies, taking out the repair/needle logis, and picking off the guys spraying down from roofs, along with the hives and uplinks they placed up there. I'm watching out for enemy snipers. I'm killing guys calling in vehicles or waiting for them to drop. If someone I killed is about to be revived, I'm putting them right back down. That speedy scout that no one sees, running around hacking objectives and turret installations, I see him, and I take him out. And I just got myself a headset, so I can tell my team mates about enemy positions and movement. Don't EVER say I don't support my team.
And you know what, I don't even snipe ALL the time. Some maps just aren't set-up for it. So I fly my dropship around, placing uplinks. If we're getting tank stomped, I pull out my heavy suit and forge gun.
Yes, I am a sniper, but my claim to fame isn't my K/D ratio. It's killing someone strafing one of my teammates mid-jump. It's killing a stacked kinetic-catalyzer scout at full sprint. it's killing the driver of a moving LAV. It's taking out the door gunner of a dropship. It's killing someone dropping out of their MCC in mid-air. And doing all these things from 250+m.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
372
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 16:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:The best solution for snipers is to remove the sniper rifle from the game.
Currently 99% of snipers are red line campers who do nothing to support the success of their team of the battle field. The end result of all this sniping is battles that feel empty with teams that are too small (snipers not actually functioning as part of them afterall) to hold or capture points on the battlefield.
Removing snipers would force all those red line players to get much closer to the action which would not only include them in Dust's risk reward mechanic but also force them to support their team inorder to be successful. In this context I am generalizing the word successful to mean both individually and as a team.
CCP would be the "brave developers" who actually got rid fo the useless non-team based sniping mechanic if they did this. The snipers who are team players would easily adapt and join in on the matches with the rest of us. The other snipers would get all their SP refunded and could donate their tears to my breakfast cup.
Couldn't have said it better.
Let's just go ahead and list all the reasons snipers should be kept in the game.
1.) ...
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
345
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 17:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
See, here's another one. It's like they can't even read. |
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1026
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Posted - 2014.01.04 17:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
To be honest, I think most snipers want to support their team, but the map design seems like it was specifically made to prevent snipers from helping out. CCP made it so that you couldn't get sniped while hacking, because people complained. Now people complain that snipers don't help enough. Not to mention that almost none the important objectives are ever found in the open (which is also why HAVs don't help out).
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
345
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 17:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Even I can understand not having objectives out in the open. When you're hacking, you're defenseless. So I snipe people on the way to objectives. But CCP took away a lot of perches in the older maps, and didn't implement them into the newer maps, because of ignorant crybabys like Mobius and Talos. That pushed some snipers into the redline, but even now, it's nowhere near the alleged "99%" of snipers there, for reasons I've stated before (it's boring, doesn't help the team, and even if someone is trying to pad their K/D, it's an agonizingly slow way to do so). When a sniper is doing their job, whether enemy or friend (unless they're on a squad with a mic), no one knows, THAT'S the problem. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1180
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 18:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote: First of all, I don't snipe from the redline, save for TWO extreme situations: -If my team is being redlined (usually by squads from 0uterHeaven, and the like) -To countersnipe an enemy sniping INTO my redline. Sniping from the redline other than in those cases is boring, and doesn't help the team.
Then we agree. Sniping from the redline is totally useless but this is where 99% of snipers spend their time. As you have clearly pointed out this is totally antithetical to the point of sniping and fails to support their team in any way.
TheEnd762 wrote: I'm in a scout suit. A militia SMG can tear me apart in less than a second.
If you're sniping in a scout suit then you are doing it wrong. The scout suit is by far the worst suit for sniping in for several reasons. 1) It has the poorest ability to stack either damage mods or HP. 2) It has very limited ability to repair itself or provide itself with more ammo 3) Its only advantage, its low signature, is easily negated.
By far the best suit for sniping is a logistics suit, specifically the Gallente Logi which has an abundance of slots and a built in complex armor rep at level 5 allowing it to be totally self sufficient.
TheEnd762 wrote:No, I find myself a perch. I make sure I can cover AT LEAST two objectives, or their immediate areas/avenues of approach. When my team is trying to push their way to an enemy null cannon, I'M the one softening up the heavies, taking out the repair/needle logis, and picking off the guys spraying down from roofs, along with the hives and uplinks they placed up there. I'm watching out for enemy snipers. I'm killing guys calling in vehicles or waiting for them to drop. If someone I killed is about to be revived, I'm putting them right back down. That speedy scout that no one sees, running around hacking objectives and turret installations, I see him, and I take him out. And I just got myself a headset, so I can tell my team mates about enemy positions and movement. Don't EVER say I don't support my team.
Every sniper says something like this but I hate to tell you that you don't do it that well. Not only has a sniper actually never stopped me from taking a point. A sniper has never even dissuaded me from trying to take a point. A forge gunner is a far more potent and effective area denial weapon than any sniper in this game ever. Bar none. This means that one of the major roles of the sniper is totally out classed by another weapon. Why should we use a sniper rifle to defend a point when a forge will provide the same area denial and be able to kick around vehicles to boot?
TheEnd762 wrote:Yes, I am a sniper, but my claim to fame isn't my K/D ratio. It's killing someone strafing one of my teammates mid-jump. It's killing a stacked kinetic-catalyzer scout at full sprint. it's killing the driver of a moving LAV. It's taking out the door gunner of a dropship. It's killing someone dropping out of their MCC in mid-air. And doing all these things from 250+m.
You seem to think I'm attacking you personally TheEnd762 but if you would read my second post you would see that I am using rhetorical tools to point out major flaws in the current game design around snipers. Sure you may do all sorts of things with your sniper rifle but the sad fact is that every other class can do it better and have the added bonus of providing more immediate support to their team. I would trade a sniper of my team for any other player defined role since all of them are more apt to help the team than a sniper. A person with a rail rifle can do all of the things you mention in my final quote of you but since they are not at 250+m they are actually able to hack points and move to support their team where they are needed.
I have no problem with you being a coward and not wanting to "go into the meat grinder with the other lemmings." That is totally fine. What I have an issue with is that CCP has essentially created a useless group of players who are totally outclassed by everything else on the battle field. Currently a sniper amounts to little more than an annoyance on the battlefield which needs to change.
Fun > Realism
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
345
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 19:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:this is where 99% of snipers spend their time.
That is an ignorant fallacy perpetrated by people like yourself, who are frustrated by snipers. It's 50/50 at most.
Quote:If you're sniping in a scout suit then you are doing it wrong. The scout suit is by far the worst suit for sniping in for several reasons. 1) It has the poorest ability to stack either damage mods or HP. 2) It has very limited ability to repair itself or provide itself with more ammo 3) Its only advantage, its low signature, is easily negated.
By far the best suit for sniping is a logistics suit, specifically the Gallente Logi which has an abundance of slots and a built in complex armor rep at level 5 allowing it to be totally self sufficient.
You of all people are the last person who should be telling me the right or "wrong" way to snipe. I stack 3 complex damage mods on my scout suit just fine. Stacking HP isn't necessary for a sniper, as a good sniper remains hidden. In the rare event that I get counter-sniped, it's usually with a Thale or a chaged sniper rifle to the head, where armor or shield mods wouldn't do much good anyway.
Quote:Every sniper says something like this but I hate to tell you that you don't do it that well. Not only has a sniper actually never stopped me from taking a point. A sniper has never even dissuaded me from trying to take a point.
That's because you're a block-headed grunt. Your job is to keep bum-rushing an objective. It doesn't matter if you're killed by a sniper rifle or an AR or an ion cannon. You're just going to keep re-spawning and going for it. But no, a good sniper can impede you just as well as anyone else, while denying you the ability to kill them. That's playing smart. But if you're saying you've never been sniped on your way to an objective, then you're just a liar.
Quote:A forge gunner is a far more potent and effective area denial weapon than any sniper in this game ever. Bar none. This means that one of the major roles of the sniper is totally out classed by another weapon. Why should we use a sniper rifle to defend a point when a forge will provide the same area denial and be able to kick around vehicles to boot?
A FG has more punch, I'll give you that. But it lacks the precision, zoom, range, rate of fire, and ammo capacity of a sniper rifle, so it's far from outclassing the sniper rifle. Good luck taking out a scout at full sprint with a FG, and good luck covering more than one objective at once.
Quote:Sure you may do all sorts of things with your sniper rifle but the sad fact is that every other class can do it better
Again, false. No one else can see those enemy uplinks on roofs as soon as they're dropped and take them out. No one else is killing that guy calling in a tank on the other side of the map. No one else is counter-sniping the enemy. No one else is killing that sneaky scout hacking unguarded objectives. Those are serious, immediate threats that a sniper can take out faster and better than anyone else.
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
345
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Posted - 2014.01.04 19:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:and have the added bonus of providing more immediate support to their team. I would trade a sniper of my team for any other player defined role since all of them are more apt to help the team than a sniper.
Your only definition of valid "help" seems to be synonymous with "able to be killed at close to medium range". So I don't hack objectives. Neither do tankers, or dropship pilots, or several other types of players. That doesn't mean they're not contributing.
Quote:A person with a rail rifle can do all of the things you mention in my final quote of you
No, a person with a rail rifle cannot take out the driver of a moving LAV, unless it's coming right toward them and they get lucky. That's a coincidence. There is no skill involved. Nor can they take out someone dropping out of an MCC. Maybe they can kill the full sprint catalyzer stacked scout or the strafer in mid-jump at close range, but they're just as likely to die themselves.
Quote:I have no problem with you being a coward and not wanting to "go into the meat grinder with the other lemmings." That is totally fine.
Right. I'm a "coward" for not throwing suits and clones away like a moron, and instead choosing a more sophisticated tactic with a little finesse. Okay. I'm surprised you don't literally choke on your delusions of grandeur. The only thing that's useless is your incredible ignorance. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1180
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Posted - 2014.01.04 19:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Quote:and have the added bonus of providing more immediate support to their team. I would trade a sniper of my team for any other player defined role since all of them are more apt to help the team than a sniper. Your only definition of valid "help" seems to be synonymous with "able to be killed at close to medium range". So I don't hack objectives. Neither do tankers, or dropship pilots, or several other types of players. That doesn't mean they're not contributing. Quote:A person with a rail rifle can do all of the things you mention in my final quote of you No, a person with a rail rifle cannot take out the driver of a moving LAV, unless it's coming right toward them and they get lucky. That's a coincidence. There is no skill involved. Nor can they take out someone dropping out of an MCC. Maybe they can kill the full sprint catalyzer stacked scout or the strafer in mid-jump at close range, but they're just as likely to die themselves. Quote:I have no problem with you being a coward and not wanting to "go into the meat grinder with the other lemmings." That is totally fine. Right. I'm a "coward" for not throwing suits and clones away like a moron, and instead choosing a more sophisticated tactic with a little finesse. Okay. I'm surprised you don't literally choke on your delusions of grandeur. The only thing that's useless is your incredible ignorance.
I love your pathetic attempt to counter my arguments but all you have really done is helped me understand that you don't actually know how to read. I never said that killing is the best way to provide team support. Tanks actually support their team mostly through deterrence, which is much more important than killing when we are talking about battlefield control. A DS is primarily useful for transport but can in the right hands be a deterrent as well. Once again both of these roles are things snipers try to lay claim to but are actually carried out better by others.
Yes, a person with a rail rifle, combat rifle, or AR can consistently kill LAV drivers out of their seat. Yes, it is a skill. Sorry that you're not good enough to be able to do it. Yes I can do it easier and more consistently than a sniper. Heck, half the time I don't bother and just kill the whole LAV with AV nades.
Scouts melt to regardless of how fast they are moving. Saying that a kin cated out scout is a thread is stupid. No a dampened scout with 700+hp. Now that is a threat, but scanning takes care of them nicely.
Remember that this is a game so you hiding way off in the distance having a minimal effect on the success of your team really isn't doing you any favors. Loosing a suit or two isn't a big deal. The added risk of being close to the action is what allows you to get the greater rewards for your team. Way back in the redline you have almost no risks and thus the reward for your team is minimal.
Also note that I have said it before and I'll say it again most of my opposition to sniping is that CCP has not set it up so that it encourages team support/play. In this team based game the sniper is the lone wolf who does very little to support his team's larger goal of controlling points. CCP needs to either change the way snipers are rewarded to encourage more team play or simply eliminate them from the game since in their current state they are not worth the servers' processing power.
Fun > Realism
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
289
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Posted - 2014.01.04 23:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
This back and forth is silly and is going nowhere . Let's act like men and have respect enough to agree to disagree .
We can see what and where each of you stand and I for one can do nothing but respect you both .
The End because you are a sniper and highly skilled , I have seen you in action and can attest .
Mobius because you are sticking to your guns , right or WRONG you are sticking to your guns and people like myself and TheEnd762 can do nothing but prove you wrong and hope one day that you and the rest of the disrespectful naysayers come around and give our class ( Snipers ) the respect that is due .
It's bound to happen sooner rather than later .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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