There's an old saying. "Those with the least knowledge tend to have the strongest opinions."

That was proven on day 1 of 1.7 - Tanks were changed in a bag way, and we were hit by a tsunami of tears. Still are.

To be honest, I'm still forming my opinion on all this, but I think I'm actually starting to like the change.

Tanks are supposed to be powerful. If you are on foot, and encounter an enemy tank, you are supposed to be afraid. If one team has complete tank superiority, they should have a huge advantage. All those things are now truer than ever.

What I believe CCP is trying to do here is create a fast, fun, dynamic tank battle independent of, but connected to the infantry battle. You have to admit there are some awesome tank battles going on right now. In fact, played a PC battle today, and tanks were a huge part it for a change. I believe at any given time there were 3 on the field from each team. The back-and-forth struggle between the tanks had a huge impact on the infantry fight at each objective. To me that's awesome gameplay!

There was also tank variety! I believe both teams were fielding on of each, missile, blaster, and rail tanks. That would have never happened before. Especially not in a PC battle between 2 good teams.

Tweaks will likely need to be made. I wonder particularly about the low cost of tanks, and the seeming ineffectiveness of AV.

But again, if tank battles are to become somewhat their own thing, tankers need to be able to afford to take some losses, and I suppose cheaper tanks should be available. Also with AV, is it meant for infantry to be able to fully fight against vehicles without problems? Or should it be more of a vehicle deterrent?

Also keep in mind - The current range of swarm launchers is due to rendering issues. CCP doesn't want SL users to be able to fire from farther than they can be rendered, once rendering is improved, range will likely increase as wel.

There's an old saying. "Those with the least knowledge tend to have the strongest opinions."

That was proven on day 1 of 1.7 - Tanks were changed in a bag way, and we were hit by a tsunami of tears. Still are.

To be honest, I'm still forming my opinion on all this, but I think I'm actually starting to like the change.

Tanks are supposed to be powerful. If you are on foot, and encounter an enemy tank, you are supposed to be afraid. If one team has complete tank superiority, they should have a huge advantage. All those things are now truer than ever.

What I believe CCP is trying to do here is create a fast, fun, dynamic tank battle independent of, but connected to the infantry battle. You have to admit there are some awesome tank battles going on right now. In fact, played a PC battle today, and tanks were a huge part it for a change. I believe at any given time there were 3 on the field from each team. The back-and-forth struggle between the tanks had a huge impact on the infantry fight at each objective. To me that's awesome gameplay!

There was also tank variety! I believe both teams were fielding on of each, missile, blaster, and rail tanks. That would have never happened before. Especially not in a PC battle between 2 good teams.

Tweaks will likely need to be made. I wonder particularly about the low cost of tanks, and the seeming ineffectiveness of AV.

But again, if tank battles are to become somewhat their own thing, tankers need to be able to afford to take some losses, and I suppose cheaper tanks should be available. Also with AV, is it meant for infantry to be able to fully fight against vehicles without problems? Or should it be more of a vehicle deterrent?

Also keep in mind - The current range of swarm launchers is due to rendering issues. CCP doesn't want SL users to be able to fire from farther than they can be rendered, once rendering is improved, range will likely increase as wel.

Tough crowd.

Not really. Tanks can fly.
That alone tells you its messed up.
Tanks pretty much do ballet in this game
I have seen two tanks form a triangle lol

I dont mind so much that tanks are powerful, they should be slower.
I should be able to run away from a tank and hide .
Even LAV cant really run away from tanks.

Even if CCP cant fix all the issues, limiting the amount of tanks per side and per user per match would help lots.

3 tanks chasing the infantry at spawn points its really annoying.

Random spawning in front of 4 tanks a day ago was really annoying lol

In real life there are several infintry weapons that can devistate armored vehicle

I thought this was an infantry based FPS, not a tank game. I think it is rediculous that a tank can sit in plain view taking fire from 3 proto swarm launchers, and not need to worry. In real life there are several infintry weapons that can devistate armored vehicle, but aparently in the future they will be invincible. Terrible update CCP, you have turned the FPS i love into a dumb tank game.

What gave you the idea this was strictly an infantry based FPS? Vehicles are a big part of Dust and should be. They are supposed to be front and center, alongside the infantry, not something that exists in the background and you don't really see.


And please tell me what tank can 'sit in plain view taking fire from 3 proto swarm launchers without worrying'. Fitting? Shields? Armor?

No they can not fly.
Why should be able to run away from a tank? If I you get caught in the open by a tank, you should expect to die. That's fair.
Being stomped by anything is annoying. But remember, pubstomps have been happening since long before these tank changes.

HeeHee, Talos... yes you are sort of right about the tank taking that much fire. There's a provoking argument out there that, the answer to the question "what tank that can sit in plain view taking fire from 3 proto swarm launchers without worrying", IS... a tank being proto-swarmer-ed by Porky Pig, Wiley Coyote, and Bullwinkle.

But the concept that Dust was to be decisively an infantry-based FPS came from the devs themselves. EVE Online was for 10 years decisively (and proudly) "a game about spaceships"--decisively a vehicle-based game. CCP touted Dust to be a game that emphasizes footsteps on soil, and tries to celebrate it by giving players dropsuits and a myriad of hand-gear as the core and the reason for them to play THIS game (a version of EVE that's NOT the vehicle-driven game that EVE Online is).

Make no mistake, that's NOT an easy thing to do.
EVE Online is SERIOUSLY cerebral, like the roots of personal-computer games originally were, from what I'm told... (Console games are visceral, and tend to lose approval when they try to become like Stratego). Watching a youtube battle from EVE Online makes you THINK it's a rollicking run-n-gun space shooter, but really the amount of planning and tactics and strategy the coop players put ahead of and behind each of those engagements would blow your mind (I learned that to my surprise, without ever playing the game myself).

If they want Dust to be a similar "think/plan ahead-of and behind-the fight" game that EVE often is, the devs have got to keep TIGHT, intricate restraints or limits on its vehicles--OR give up and watch us players slide back into the customary "blow stuff up--rack up loot---just have fun beatin' the score" console play.
There's nothing WRONG with that ole' gameplay style.... but I just thought Dust was trying to be, well, different for a change.

Before 1.7 I DID see some amazing cerebral planning with HAVs: On a few matches I saw some players adapt to "the HAV slow speed limit" by calling in 3 tanks together and rolling in single-file CONGA LINE convoy (1 railgun in front instantly covered by 1 railgun behind him, 3rd tank mounting missiles to suppress red infantry from flanking them)--stay together and branch off only at each objective, E, then B, then A, regroup as you see your infantry hacking the null, then get back in the conga-line and probe on to the next location---infantry just intuitively walked parallel to the convoy....I thought, THAT is freakin glorious, THAT was TACTICAL to be proud of. I never learned who those mystery players were (if I'm describing somebody out there, tell us your names and take a bow!!)

...But that sort of stuff takes planning, and in 1.7, I'm not seeing any encouragement toward that level of cleverness anymore. I don't even see the powerful "howitzer on the ridge" tactic as much anymore,... seems most HAV drivers are all down gang-biking the town streets, throwing dynamite through windows, not alongside infantry, not thinking,...just trippin' 'til they die.

I agree with you that it's fun Talos, but it just takes us back to CoD titles on PS2. I stopped being satisfied with THAT fun a while ago.

A tank coming off a hill and staying in the air for a second or two is flying or rathering soaring.
Tanks being able to form a triangle is terrible.
Tanks have a pathetic center of gravity in this game.
Go drive a soma in a rough terrain and you will see it yourself.
Tanks should not move in a way they look like they could be easily flipped upside like LAVs


Being able to run away from a "500 ton" vehicle when I weigh a ton is common sense

Let's not get dramatic. Getting "1 or 2 seconds" of air time off a jump is neither flying nor soaring. And it looks sweet.

- No idea what this "tank triangle" is you're talking about.
- Are you saying you should run faster than a tank?

I thought this was an infantry based FPS, not a tank game. I think it is rediculous that a tank can sit in plain view taking fire from 3 proto swarm launchers, and not need to worry. In real life there are several infintry weapons that can devistate armored vehicle, but aparently in the future they will be invincible. Terrible update CCP, you have turned the FPS i love into a dumb tank game.

In real life a single bullet can kill.
In real life assault rifles overheat.
In real life machine guns have good range.

Why is it that people only take the "real life" argument seriously when it's used in their favor?

A tank coming off a hill and staying in the air for a second or two is flying or rathering soaring.
Tanks being able to form a triangle is terrible.
Tanks have a pathetic center of gravity in this game.
Go drive a soma in a rough terrain and you will see it yourself.
Tanks should not move in a way they look like they could be easily flipped upside like LAVs


Being able to run away from a "500 ton" vehicle when I weigh a ton is common sense

From what I've seen, the side with the best tanks wins, regardless of infantry.

This isn't really the "independent" sphere for vehicles you promote.

Talos:

If some of the posts here are harsh... just ignore those. I'm sure a social game like EVE Online has its minor population of unwelcomed one-fingered salute players, so I guess EVE Dust 514 will have to put up with them for now too.