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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
623
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Posted - 2014.01.02 00:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote: The skill gap is so compressed, that itGÇÖs like a slot machine. You might as well just sit down at a slot machine and have a thing that pops up an says GÇ£I got a kill!GÇ¥ TheyGÇÖve taken individual skill out of the equation so much. So you see these guysGÇöI see it all the time, they come in to play Red Orchestra, and theyGÇÖre like GÇ£This gameGÇÖs just too hardcore. IGÇÖm awesome at Call of Duty, so thereGÇÖs something wrong with your game. Because IGÇÖm not successful at playing this game, so it must suck. IGÇÖm not the problem, itGÇÖs your game.GÇ¥ And sometimes as designers, it is our game. Sometimes we screw up, sometimes we design something thatGÇÖs not accesible enough, they canGÇÖt figure it out, we didnGÇÖt give them enough information to figure out where to go... but more often than not, itGÇÖs because Call of Duty compressed their skill gap so much that these guys never needed to get good at a shooter. They never needed to get good at their twitch skills. Tripwire President John Gibson |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
628
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Posted - 2014.01.02 02:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:Rahl Draak wrote:Chromosome.....no aim assist, great gameplay. Post Chromosome......bf3, cod, halo crap...and player count looking like the Greek GDP. Surprise, surprise. Welcome to console. There was some impossible strafe dodging & aiming going on in Chrome. But that's a whole other topic. In my Heavy suit I never noticed Aim-Assist. Use of cover at times limited incoming fire and when in the open the suit was slow enough evasion wasn't that hard to overcome. The legitimately good players (& the input cheaters) can maintain sustained headshots which against heavy frames is better than any AA.
I never once saw the aiming in Chromosome as impossible. I saw it as Challenging, rewarding... engaging... edge of the seat butt clenching gun fights, anywhere and everywhere against everyone.
Scout's where a challenge and one of the most rewarding of all engagements. Fighting a 30 second++++ sometimes 1 minute against Annie Oakley and Calamity Jane was some of the most fondest memories I have made in this game. Why I tip my hat to them in every top 10 Merc's of DUST lists I make.
Heavies where lethal and took approach and plan at how you came at them to even stand a chance.
Hit registry was just as good as it is now... No Aim assist Crutch blowing up hitboxes.. or causing bullets to magnetise or w/e every Vet is experiencing with bullets following targets or "Homing" in...
Right now Aim assist is not something that hinders, its something used and abused, and is forced upon the competitive players or ones who truly understand the word "scrub" in games, and worse off...in majority don't want it. It has NOT helped new players in anyway other then putting a big band aid on hit detection for Uprising 1.4-1.6 after fixes from 1.0-1.3 where un successful...
and over all DUST has existed LONGER without AA, then it has existed WITH IT. a feature that has hurt DUST more then it has ever helped... Worse thing from my personal aspirations of making DUST appeal to my long time FPS friends... AA is such a polarizing issue in the FPS community that it will actually make people quit and never look back until it's gone.
But Hey it's in every FPS in consol history since like.....ever.... right? wait.. Except Doom, Golden eye, Perfect Dark, Soccom, MAG, CS:GO, KZ:SF, DUST EST Uprising 1.4....etcx200 |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
634
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 03:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:Bethhy wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:Rahl Draak wrote:Chromosome.....no aim assist, great gameplay. Post Chromosome......bf3, cod, halo crap...and player count looking like the Greek GDP. Surprise, surprise. Welcome to console. There was some impossible strafe dodging & aiming going on in Chrome. But that's a whole other topic. In my Heavy suit I never noticed Aim-Assist. Use of cover at times limited incoming fire and when in the open the suit was slow enough evasion wasn't that hard to overcome. The legitimately good players (& the input cheaters) can maintain sustained headshots which against heavy frames is better than any AA. I never once saw the aiming in Chromosome as impossible. I saw it as Challenging, rewarding... engaging... edge of the seat butt clenching gun fights, anywhere and everywhere against everyone. Scout's where a challenge and one of the most rewarding of all engagements. Fighting a 30 second++++ sometimes 1 minute against Annie Oakley and Calamity Jane was some of the most fondest memories I have made in this game. Why I tip my hat to them in every top 10 Merc's of DUST lists I make. Heavies where lethal and took approach and plan at how you came at them to even stand a chance. Hit registry was just as good as it is now... No Aim assist Crutch blowing up hitboxes.. or causing bullets to magnetise or w/e every Vet is experiencing with bullets following targets or "Homing" in... Right now Aim assist is not something that hinders, its something used and abused, and is forced upon the competitive players or ones who truly understand the word "scrub" in games, and worse off...in majority don't want it. It has NOT helped new players in anyway other then putting a big band aid on hit detection for Uprising 1.4-1.6 after fixes from 1.0-1.3 where un successful... and over all DUST has existed LONGER without AA, then it has existed WITH IT. a feature that has hurt DUST more then it has ever helped... Worse thing from my personal aspirations of making DUST appeal to my long time FPS friends... AA is such a polarizing issue in the FPS community that it will actually make people quit and never look back until it's gone. But Hey it's in every FPS in consol history since like.....ever.... right? wait.. Except Doom, Golden eye, Perfect Dark, Soccom, MAG, CS:GO, KZ:SF, DUST EST Uprising 1.4....etcx200 Chrome had some terrible hit detection. I got the drop on a shotgun scout with my HMG on what was then a new map, he starred to jinky back and forth in a manner that is impossible with a joy stick. While ignoring all my DPS he casually three shotted me. My favorite HD story was a perfectly timed flux on a shotgunner about to cross a bridge. As his shields dropped my Toxin SMG was unloading somehow doing no (or negligible) damage. Charging across he three shotted me. My HWS was at 3 or 4 and SAS 5. In both cases I was better positioned and prepared only to magically lose thanks entirely to game bugs. The glitch-fest and game-input cheats of Chrome are gone and I don't miss it. Hit Detection has improved significantly with Uprising. While my HMG performance has had ups and downs now I can have good games whereas in Chromosome nearly breaking even was an excellent match. The only downside that immediately comes to mind is the fixes have indirectly nerfed the hell out of scouts and light frames. .
Sounds like you where shooting beside the scout not on them... or just over the shoulder(have done it a lot and notice when you go back and look at capture card footage.) There was lag and some hit detection issues in Chromosome, DUST has never been perfect, or many games. Stutter stepping is done on the Ds3 and is still done and breaks AA pretty good.. really can throw a mouse user like nothing else though lol.
But if you turn Aim assist off right now there is no difference really in HD from now to Chromosome... Watch at 1:20 what the bullets do with AA.
Quote:The glitch-fest and game-input cheats of Chrome are gone and I don't miss it.
Where did they go? Still Turbo controllers, still equipment spam.. still equipment being placed inside walls even ...... Except now we have a game setting that is referred by everyone in, the in game coms as "Auto Aim"
I Have seen new players Suffer 0/10, 0/20++ worse scores then ever.. Even when in Chromosome people had their skills maxed out and Imp's running around in a full group. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
650
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 23:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Rahl Draak wrote:Chromosome.....no aim assist, great gameplay. Post Chromosome......bf3, cod, halo crap...and player count looking like the Greek GDP. Surprise, surprise. Welcome to console. LOL Chromosome HAD aim assist. It was removed early Uprising, which made people mad because aiming didn't feel right. You know why it didn't feel right? No aim assist
Mostly not true.
Chromosome did have some aim assist that wasn't part of the actual active aim assist setting.. like friction and a very mild LDS centering. But the Active Aim Assist got de-activated pre Chromosome due to the forum out rage about it.
The Main feature that made Uprising 1.0 and 1.1 so terrible for aiming feel compared to Chromosome was the Joystick acceleration curve they added onto the DS3 and then the Mouse/KB as it was a emulation at that point. The acceleration curve basically made it so the ds3 input would accelerate to extreme's with no reasonable cap., also made the M/KB have extreme inconsistency with the same movement pattern yielding vastly different results.
The Aiming Problems in Uprising was one created by Wolfman Reworking the entire system in Uprising 1.0 launch and throwing out the one in Chromosome as it was cause 1-2 Frame a second loss (He said)
If this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFqlnXZU6bw Is a thing you want to be a staple in DUST 514 now? Then fine.... I guess I chose the wrong game and my friends where right about CCP Shanghai. But as far as this game being an actual shooter with this? its a giant farce. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
653
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 02:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:ladwar wrote:Soldiersaint wrote:ladwar wrote:http://youtu.be/dPOzbJxkEpI
see... once you find a standard for it never ever touch it. If you dont like it then turn it off. Man you show offs are annoying. you can't turn it off for everyone... You want to gimp yourself thats fine by me but you have no business or right to try and change the way others play. AA is there for a reason if you dont like it then dont play.
So you admit if it is off you have put yourself at a disadvantage automatically.
CCP changed the way you play, changed the way everyone played. The way YOU play is always there if you decide to turn AA off. Then you can play the way YOU played, or play. But then you would put yourself at a disadvantage right?
Is AA there To do This? Watch at 1:20, Is this really what the fundamental Dust University tutorial video on how to "AIM" in DUST? Is there really a point in suit speed at all anymore?
AA is a feature that has fundamentally changed the way this game plays. The way suits scale, Heavy/Medium/Scout suit balance, new players investment on their suits, The coward nature of players hiding behind boxes because 2-3 people locking with AA = dead. Even a majority of the weapon balance arguments for the last few months can directly relate back to AA, and many other issues.
So yes some people think having a helping hand when your aiming is not worth that... and having better controls and customization is a better route to go for DUST 514. Not a Bubblegum shooter Quick TTk everyone has super aim, and gets bored in an hour of play. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
659
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 04:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Bethhy wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Rahl Draak wrote:Chromosome.....no aim assist, great gameplay. Post Chromosome......bf3, cod, halo crap...and player count looking like the Greek GDP. Surprise, surprise. Welcome to console. LOL Chromosome HAD aim assist. It was removed early Uprising, which made people mad because aiming didn't feel right. You know why it didn't feel right? No aim assist Mostly not true. Chromosome did have some aim assist that wasn't part of the actual active aim assist setting.. like friction and a very mild LDS centering. But the Active Aim Assist got de-activated pre Chromosome due to the forum out rage about it. The Main feature that made Uprising 1.0 and 1.1 so terrible for aiming feel compared to Chromosome was the Joystick acceleration curve they added onto the DS3 and then the Mouse/KB as it was a emulation at that point. The acceleration curve basically made it so the ds3 input would accelerate to extreme's with no reasonable cap., also made the M/KB have extreme inconsistency with the same movement pattern yielding vastly different results. The Aiming Problems in Uprising was one created by Wolfman Reworking the entire system in Uprising 1.0 launch and throwing out the one in Chromosome as it was cause 1-2 Frame a second loss (He said) If this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFqlnXZU6bw Is a thing you want to be a staple in DUST 514 now? Then fine.... I guess I chose the wrong game and my friends where right about CCP Shanghai. But as far as this game being an actual shooter with this? its a giant farce. I asked him to repeat the experiment without aim assist. I believe it's just lag compensation. It's only something everyone has been talking about since 1.4 ... but This right? |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
667
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 15:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:
The claim isn't that each person with a KB/M is inherently better than a person with a DS3. It is that the ceiling for KB/M is WAY WAY higher than a DS3. You balance around top-end play, not scrubs.
I HATE aim assists, but in order to level the playing field the KB/M people need to make concessions. That means (in my opinion) adding momentum (so that you can't change direction instantaneously) and turn speed caps and momentum.
If CCP would just implement those things, and get them right, and then leave them alone, I think any and all aim assist could be taken out, and I would be extremely happy (even while dying).
Who knows if KB/M in DUST has a cielling higher then a ds3 or gamepad user.. It was never even closely proven either way in competitive circles and ask anyone that knows. i do know this, having magnetic bullets and tracking is not the answer to making a shooter better.
DootDoot wrote:Soldiersaint wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:Please, not only does it help keep your crosshair on target, but the bullets magnetise toward the enemy.
Please remove it.
Sincerely, a Scout. *yawn* another show off. Get killed by aim assist some more. If you dont like it just turn it off. meanwhile me and every one else will enjoy killing your cocky scout. It does not magnetize the bullets. Show me some bullets that curve and then ill agree. Until then your full of it. Oh and dont even think about mentioning skill. I could care less about being a show off. I do care about getting better myself at aiming and tracking targets with my controller.. For DUST and Future of FPS's I may play(yes with the DS4). I Know Knight Solaire might be slightly better at aiming naturally then I am right now. But I am confident that my aiming potential could be just as good(If not better ) given the chance for it to be worth turning aim assist off, to test and practice. Some may enjoy not having to try hard to aim at a scout. I however enjoyed the concept of the scout suit, Medium suits and heavy suit, and that some would be easier to aim at and some would be harder, one of the main premises that attracted me to DUST 514. I have tried for several patches to get over aim assist making the time I put into learning how to aim on the controller worthless. But when I am actively hitting targets jumping, falling several stories, sprinting at 10m/s+ or even being across great distances(SCR/RR) I am able to Aim and track those targets as good as I hoped to when at my full personal aiming potential. Some players may want to just worry about learning the skill system, fitting system and maps of DUST 514, and let all the actual use of the Guns in the FPS game be guided by a program setting that helps me aim center target, or stay on target while they move and jump..and many many other advantages I feel. Then why do we pay for our suits? why do we brag about anything really except the time we have put into DUST 514. Not how good we have got at a First Person Shooter built around a MMO concept. I felt i stood a chance against some of the most recognized names on the killboards, I could claim killing a fair few with pride(As if that is really an accomplishment in the grand scheme) But it was me that did it(With no AA)and I always felt that I stood a chance. Now if they see me and I see them.. I Stand no chance, it is skill points and math, sure if I catch them off guard or have their back to me for a little time I can let Aim Assist help me aim quickly at them and usually kill them. But any ability I had to get the better of the famed "Gun Game" that addicted me to this title is gone, and the victories I do get feel hollow, almost like the sense of achievement in killing someone was robbed from me. In Short +1 Remove Aim Assist. CCP may support a F2P title, but they should promote making a better game player, not catering to those who refuse to get better.
QFT
Don't let This become the essential way you "AIM" in DUST. or the Future of Aiming in DUST. |
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