There is a huge difference, I did not mind loosing 2-3 100k isk suits taking out 600k isk tanks before 1.7. I am not about to risc 2-3 100k isk suits to take down a 50-60k isk tank. Anything less is barely scrathing the tanks, not to mention the skilled tankes with invulnerable hardners.

I find it easier to simply ignore the tanks, run for the nearest city and ignore the existence of the tanks.

I have tried and taken out some tanks with remote explosives, but I get more war points and are of better use for the team than spending the whole match taking out 2 tanks and dying about 10 times.

I have also tried with a cheap railtank, only to run into invulnerable hardened blaster tanks that simply rolled up to my rail tank and smashed it and my 4 rail shot did not take a tiny bit of its armor.

No, I have removed all AV grenades from my suits, have one AV build with remote explosives left but it is no longer used.

I do not complain about the tanks, I like the added chaos but I have no intention of wasting 400k isk to take down a 60k isk tank.

I waist 476k isk to kill multiple 60k isk tanks. Its called a Particle Cannon Gunnlogi

Sarcasm aside im actually seeing more infi equipping AV grenades to scair off tanks rather then simply kill them

There is a huge difference, I did not mind loosing 2-3 100k isk suits taking out 600k isk tanks before 1.7. I am not about to risc 2-3 100k isk suits to take down a 50-60k isk tank. Anything less is barely scrathing the tanks, not to mention the skilled tankes with invulnerable hardners.

I find it easier to simply ignore the tanks, run for the nearest city and ignore the existence of the tanks.

I have tried and taken out some tanks with remote explosives, but I get more war points and are of better use for the team than spending the whole match taking out 2 tanks and dying about 10 times.

I have also tried with a cheap railtank, only to run into invulnerable hardened blaster tanks that simply rolled up to my rail tank and smashed it and my 4 rail shot did not take a tiny bit of its armor.

No, I have removed all AV grenades from my suits, have one AV build with remote explosives left but it is no longer used.

I do not complain about the tanks, I like the added chaos but I have no intention of wasting 400k isk to take down a 60k isk tank.

i waste ZERO isk killing tanks. how?

its simple i equip AV nades and dont go hunting for them.

they are only a problem when they are defeding an objective youtr tying to ake or assaulting the objective your trying to defend.



tank hunting is a thing.... you suck at it so how about you stick to defence of an objective with AV nades


6 of you with AV nades will make a tank cry. hell 3 of you with av nades will rid you of those militia tanks people complain about

total cost... nadda since i was going to have granades on my suit anyways.



stop using that cost justification when you clearly shouldnt be out hunting them in the first place if you wanted to win.

cost is a big issue. It was fun pre 1.7 to hunt an expensive tank. Not because it was a threat but because you knew the tanker would rage loosing a 600k-1mill isk tank. Why chase a tank and risc dying when I can avoid it with my dampened scout. I often pass right pass the tanks, they ignore me as I do not light up on their tachnet as a red dot. I could have placed some REs while passing the tank.

But why waste time hunting a cheap tank when I can help the team win the match by hacking nullcanons and placing droplinks in strategic locations out of a tanks reach. If the tank was back at 1mill isk cost, I might take up the challenge again

you clearly missed the whol,e point and just came here to rant nonsence completly unrelated to the thread.



why exactly are you spending the whole match trying to kill tanks? just equip AV nades and if they bother you trow a couple with your squad and BOOM tank either vanishes in pretty lights or goes away alowing you to continue infantry slaying.


the end result of your position is that you end up dying to the tank ANYWAYS and dont at least get soem AV nades on him as discouragement.

its WIN WIN for you to equip AV nades to all your suits... either you die by the tank that wouldve killed you ANYWAYS had you not equiped AV nades, or you scare it off and live where otherwise you would of lost a suit.


you fail at seeing the advantage to this.

you either die when you would of died anyways...

or you live wher eyou would of died....

theres nothign but advantages to that.

again you missed the point.... why are you hunting the tank?

im asking you to equip AV nades, not go hunting for tanks.

you either die where you would of died by a tank anyways

or you live wher eyou would of died by the tank.


otherwise you go about your normal buisness.

please explain the disadvantage of this to me because im not seeing one outside of no longer being able to spam core locus as a primary weapon.

You might be right and I am wrong, I will continue without AV grenades as I have tried with av grenades and find a higher success rate ignoring the tanks than attacking it and making my position known to the tanker.

For some reason tanks seems balanced when both teams have tanks deployed, it is rarely a balanced match if only one team have tanks. I would conclude that infantry alone against the tanks in 1.7 is unbalanced.

EDIT: I will have to add that I have seen forge guns and espeiclally proto forge guns taking out tanks with success. They are just rare on the team and expensive to deploy, personally I very rarely use proto in pub matches. Sad that we need proto AV to counter mlt tanks.

skill into REs, get militia LAVs.

place REs on said LAV, proceed to speed towards enemy tank.

Tanker is trolled and you get a vehicle and infantry kill.

as a scout knowing when to attack and knowing when to stay hidden is awesome.

i suggest waiting till you see it taking damage before you start lobbing the nades as this gives the tanker something more important to think about then shooting you :P

you do have the advantage of being a scout for this however, most medium suits who are perma scanned do not and would obviously benifit more from this

I always carry flux grenades. Nothing like dropping a persons health down to my level and watch them try and run while im still advancing

@above corp mate.
Agreed. Though I still carry re's cause people tend to not really use my uplinks. Even though their in the sneaky spots generally. If you wish I can teach you how to approach multiple tanks next time were both online ^^

seriously guys when murder taxis were all the rage everyone and their uncle used those things, nobody used any other granade.


you may say "but AV nades are useless!" and alone you may be kinda sorta getting close to the truth, but the reality is that its personal AV that doesnt cost a weapons slot and EVERY infantry on the field can be packing it.


ever see a tank get hit by two guys with a nanohive throwing AV nades? they panic REALLY fast and go away and dont really have time to try to shoot you as long as you start throwing before he starts shooting.


if all infantry would just please switch over to AV nades and start poping baddies in militia tanks they will start losing ISK, and those who arnt very good and are FOTM chasers will move on to other things, eliminating everyones biggest complaint, the SPAM in tank spam.

Heh heh no, my logi is dependent on his fluxes for 1v1 situations, instead I should be able to rely on my AV squad member to be able to achieve this 'retreat' scenario with his AV DEDICATED LIGHT WEAPON. People who play with squads often fill a certain role which they are geared towards.

But now I need to start packing sub-standard AV countermeasures because the guy who's dedicated role as AV is about as useful doing the maccarana.

I'll say it once I'll say a thousand times, people should not be forced to do something. You shouldn't force Logi units to use all equipment slots, you shouldn't force heavies to use heavy weaponry, you shouldn't be forced into teamwork to destroy or coerce the retreat of vehicles.

Instead it should be advantageous to do so, a logi should WANT to fill out his equipment, a heavy should WANT to use a heavy weapon, squad members should WANT to work together. We need AV equipment that encourages the use of team play, but doesn't make it a neccesity.

I should want to equip something that helps in my role, but also his role. So as a combat engineer I would pack webifier mines, or deployable small railgun turrets. My point man might start packing EMP grenades that cause weapons to misfire or so on. But at the same time if I am busy doing my Job, I need to be confident my AV unit can do his Job, Solo!

I wouldn't necessarily expect him to blow up the tank, but I certainly expect him stop it ramming a blaster turret up my backside and to be adequately be rewarded for it, you can not tell me that
A) This already happens
B) They are adequately rewarded
C) They have the facilities to do their job effectively

*sigh*

your FORCED to take out those uplinks
Spawn Campers
It is advantageous to destroy uplinks incase the area is overrun
yoru FORCED to hack the objectives
No Im not
It is advantageous to capture an object, to faciltate a Win, for more money
your FORCED to take cover form the sniper
No Im not, I like to dance towards and shoot him in the face
It is advantageous to take cover to improve my survivability
your FORCED to check for remotes before you hack
No your not, you can still press the hack button without checking
It as advantageous to check to decrease chance of explosive death


yoru FORCED to do alot of things in this game if you want to win
But im not forced to try and win, there are people who play specifically to loose, infact CCP encourages that, you don't HAVE to do anything, but you CAN do everything.

if your entire complaint is you dont want to be forced to do things then guess what your not, as long as you dont want to win then you arnt forced to do anything your not even forced to leave the MCC

if you want to win you are FORCED to counter the metagame, but your not forced to win.
Am I? I am I personally FORCED to deal with every threat that appears in my battlespace? I am I personally FORCED to deal with someone who has a hard counter to my playstyle?
No Im not, Instead I am ENCOURAGED to work as part of a team where someone else can counter for me, If thats what they choose they want their suit to do.

you cannot escape it, you cannot prevent it, and teh game literally cannot be made in such a way that your not forced to do something for the sake of a win, it isnt possable.

of course as long as you dont want to win you can do whatever you please, but thats a choice you make, and nobody else can be blamed for that choice.

Also finally you missed the main point, I can do my Job, rather well if I do say so myself, but at the moment my AV physically can't do his Job, he might as well use a mlt assault suit and do an entirely different role.

QQ moar you opinion is invalid if you dont have AV nades

I don't even use them on my AV fits. They barely work for LAVs.

Thats the entirety of your response? I had been gearing up for an interseting intellectual battle and that is all you can reply with? Alot of people are using that argument lately.

Im right your wrong, I have no evidence to support my arguement or weaken yours, but Im still right!

you provided no evidence, nore an argument.

you simple stated i dont want to do anything to coutner it and i shouldnt have to.

wich is kind of the oposite of what should be happening in any situation where tactics are supposed to be present.


its impossable to argue with something liek that because it has no basis in logic in the first place, so attempting to defeat an illogical argument with logic is a waste of time.

hence the simple responce. i would rather not waste my time trying to explain when the inevitable results of trying will be you repeating yoruself over and over again.


ill give it one shot here.

in short in a game where tactics are employed you WILL have to adjust your tactics to counter your enemys tactics if you want to win.

it doesnt matter if tanks are OP, if you want to win you are going to have to adjust the way you play to make the most of it.

by refusing to adjust your tactics to the current state of the game (weather or not its balanced) you really have no right to complain about it, becuase you simply chose not to counter your oponents tactics.

you cant chose not to counter something then complain that it runs rampant.

I used logic and gave you clear workings of that logic. Once again you are assuming everyone wants to win and the orginal tactic does not already contain a counter.

In my squad we already had a counter to vehicles, we had an commando AV specalist. His job was to stop tankers from wiping us out. Now at the moment the only method of dealing with vehicles dealing enough damage to destroy or cause a retreat. So when you nerf the application of damage without providing other methods to counter the threat how do you propose you adapt?

You end up with rather outlandish tactics like LAV bombs because the stock provided methods no longer do their job, it has killed a role, hampered the use of a suit (commando is hardly geared towards AI operations) and your solution is drop everything you normally do and start running identical fits in order to have the best chance of survival.

It's all well and good saying adapt and HTFU, but if people don't explain things like this then we would still be at the killer taxi stage.

I did it...
Can I complain now?
There is still the problem of how much more valuable a tank is compared to a regular infantry person. One person playing in a tank is able to affect a match more than 3 or 4 people playing in a squad.

HAD a counter, then the game changed and you diddnt change your counter.

i assume everyone wants to win becuase thats a game condition, and those that dont care about winning generally dont complaina bout the means used to win games, becuase they dont give two ***** whats actually happening in the game and are playing for other reasons entirely.

its clear that you want to win, if you diddnt you would be doing other things, you even go throught he effort of maintaining a balanced squad.

and i proposed that you adapt by all carrying AV granades, wich is a viable and effective counter one that you simply do not like and CHOSE not to use.


you end up with LAV bombs becuase peopel refuse to use the standard tactics that DO work... like say having everyone in your squad carry AV granades and staying inside main cities.

also having everyone in your squad carry AV nades in no way makes all of your sutis identicle.


see this is what i mean you sprout all that nonsence about there not being a solution in responce to a solution being provided to you. you cant say there isnt one becuase this whole thread is dedicated to a solution. you have your position and you will defend it despite none of it being in any way logical.

saying every fit is identicle becuase of granade type is a perfect example of the lack of logic involved in this.

im done here.

(also guess what the counter to killer taxis were? having everyone in your squad equip AV granades :P)

So you are saying you are happy with this scenario.

To counter threat A we have counter B - Brilliant
Threat A has been buffed, counter B has been nerfed - Ok is there a counter C?
No there is only counter B - But that doesn't work anymore, what do we do?
Use more of it!

You are happy with that? You don't want to give people options?

For example omitting fighting with fire: How can you deal with a Sniper?
Short range Combat (Hard Counter)
Vehicular Combat
Long range combat(Forge Gun, Rail Rifle)

How do you deal with a hmg heavy in a corridor?
Mass Driver (Aoe Combat)
Shotgun ( close range combat)
rifle (long range combat)

How do you deal with a Tank?
AV (doesn't work effectively anymore)
Suicide LAV (not really a tactic)
. . . .

We need more options if you are gonna make the dealing damage difficult then you need to give us other counters that don't fequire damage.

There is a huge difference, I did not mind loosing 2-3 100k isk suits taking out 600k isk tanks before 1.7. I am not about to risc 2-3 100k isk suits to take down a 50-60k isk tank. Anything less is barely scrathing the tanks, not to mention the skilled tankes with invulnerable hardners.

I find it easier to simply ignore the tanks, run for the nearest city and ignore the existence of the tanks.

I have tried and taken out some tanks with remote explosives, but I get more war points and are of better use for the team than spending the whole match taking out 2 tanks and dying about 10 times.

I have also tried with a cheap railtank, only to run into invulnerable hardened blaster tanks that simply rolled up to my rail tank and smashed it and my 4 rail shot did not take a tiny bit of its armor.

No, I have removed all AV grenades from my suits, have one AV build with remote explosives left but it is no longer used.

I do not complain about the tanks, I like the added chaos but I have no intention of wasting 400k isk to take down a 60k isk tank.

you clearly missed the whol,e point and just came here to rant nonsence completly unrelated to the thread.



why exactly are you spending the whole match trying to kill tanks? just equip AV nades and if they bother you trow a couple with your squad and BOOM tank either vanishes in pretty lights or goes away alowing you to continue infantry slaying.


the end result of your position is that you end up dying to the tank ANYWAYS and dont at least get soem AV nades on him as discouragement.

its WIN WIN for you to equip AV nades to all your suits... either you die by the tank that wouldve killed you ANYWAYS had you not equiped AV nades, or you scare it off and live where otherwise you would of lost a suit.


you fail at seeing the advantage to this.

you either die when you would of died anyways...

or you live wher eyou would of died....

theres nothign but advantages to that.

Or he can use locus grenades to save himself while he ignores the tank. I'd go ahead and say that is the biggest disadvantage to your suggestion: reduced effectiveness against everything else besides a tank. What he's saying is not nonsense and I believe it makes more sense than claiming that people should run AV nades in an effort to reduce the number of tanks seen on the field. If they're only meant to scare the tanks off if they "bother you" then what's to keep them away after you've run out of grenades? Tanks aren't afraid of infantry and the easiest counter for a tanker is to just come back later after they've wasted their grenades trying to scare it.

The end result of this "ignore the tanks because AV nades are worthless" position is that you stay away from tanks and focus on infantry. This is safer. There's no room for "if you had AV nades you would've survived" situations if you avoid them all together.

the fact that your list dealing with tanks is so small worrys me, i suggest you take some time to work on expanding it as there are many more options (hint look the title of the thread).

in no way to i advcate that this current metagame is balanced, i simply stated that there ARE currently solutions to the problem. the problem is that people arnt happy with the solutions, not that there isnt any.

and the counter that doesnt require damge is to avoid the tank, focus on objectives inside the dence cities with loads of cover.


like i said though you dont even want solutions to the problem so why are you still trying to continue this?

is it that you want me to say tanks are OP? well tanks are OP.


do you want me to say that the current solutions are not ideal? well the current solutions arnt ideal.


but just becuase they arnt ideal doesnt mean you can insist they dont exsist then refuse to use them thereby making the problem worse rather then better.

You tell me the list is small, then you give me a soultion from the list, AV grenades are AV.

Yes there are solutions, Ye people do adapt. But just because we can adapt doesn't mean the mechanic isn't broken. As you said during the BPO killer taxi days, every man and his dog had AV grenades. But that didn't stop people complaing about the broken mechanic, if didn't stop CCP providing a soultion.

And it won't stop it here.
Just because the soloutions currently available involve slim pickings, that doesn't mean we haven't employed them.

you listend the entirty of anything anti vehicle under one entry....

hence why i said it was a small list....

you listend the entirty of anything anti vehicle under one entry....

hence why i said it was a small list....