I used logic and gave you clear workings of that logic. Once again you are assuming everyone wants to win and the orginal tactic does not already contain a counter.

In my squad we already had a counter to vehicles, we had an commando AV specalist. His job was to stop tankers from wiping us out. Now at the moment the only method of dealing with vehicles dealing enough damage to destroy or cause a retreat. So when you nerf the application of damage without providing other methods to counter the threat how do you propose you adapt?

You end up with rather outlandish tactics like LAV bombs because the stock provided methods no longer do their job, it has killed a role, hampered the use of a suit (commando is hardly geared towards AI operations) and your solution is drop everything you normally do and start running identical fits in order to have the best chance of survival.

It's all well and good saying adapt and HTFU, but if people don't explain things like this then we would still be at the killer taxi stage.

I did it...
Can I complain now?
There is still the problem of how much more valuable a tank is compared to a regular infantry person. One person playing in a tank is able to affect a match more than 3 or 4 people playing in a squad.

HAD a counter, then the game changed and you diddnt change your counter.

i assume everyone wants to win becuase thats a game condition, and those that dont care about winning generally dont complaina bout the means used to win games, becuase they dont give two ***** whats actually happening in the game and are playing for other reasons entirely.

its clear that you want to win, if you diddnt you would be doing other things, you even go throught he effort of maintaining a balanced squad.

and i proposed that you adapt by all carrying AV granades, wich is a viable and effective counter one that you simply do not like and CHOSE not to use.


you end up with LAV bombs becuase peopel refuse to use the standard tactics that DO work... like say having everyone in your squad carry AV granades and staying inside main cities.

also having everyone in your squad carry AV nades in no way makes all of your sutis identicle.


see this is what i mean you sprout all that nonsence about there not being a solution in responce to a solution being provided to you. you cant say there isnt one becuase this whole thread is dedicated to a solution. you have your position and you will defend it despite none of it being in any way logical.

saying every fit is identicle becuase of granade type is a perfect example of the lack of logic involved in this.

im done here.

(also guess what the counter to killer taxis were? having everyone in your squad equip AV granades :P)

So you are saying you are happy with this scenario.

To counter threat A we have counter B - Brilliant
Threat A has been buffed, counter B has been nerfed - Ok is there a counter C?
No there is only counter B - But that doesn't work anymore, what do we do?
Use more of it!

You are happy with that? You don't want to give people options?

For example omitting fighting with fire: How can you deal with a Sniper?
Short range Combat (Hard Counter)
Vehicular Combat
Long range combat(Forge Gun, Rail Rifle)

How do you deal with a hmg heavy in a corridor?
Mass Driver (Aoe Combat)
Shotgun ( close range combat)
rifle (long range combat)

How do you deal with a Tank?
AV (doesn't work effectively anymore)
Suicide LAV (not really a tactic)
. . . .

We need more options if you are gonna make the dealing damage difficult then you need to give us other counters that don't fequire damage.

There is a huge difference, I did not mind loosing 2-3 100k isk suits taking out 600k isk tanks before 1.7. I am not about to risc 2-3 100k isk suits to take down a 50-60k isk tank. Anything less is barely scrathing the tanks, not to mention the skilled tankes with invulnerable hardners.

I find it easier to simply ignore the tanks, run for the nearest city and ignore the existence of the tanks.

I have tried and taken out some tanks with remote explosives, but I get more war points and are of better use for the team than spending the whole match taking out 2 tanks and dying about 10 times.

I have also tried with a cheap railtank, only to run into invulnerable hardened blaster tanks that simply rolled up to my rail tank and smashed it and my 4 rail shot did not take a tiny bit of its armor.

No, I have removed all AV grenades from my suits, have one AV build with remote explosives left but it is no longer used.

I do not complain about the tanks, I like the added chaos but I have no intention of wasting 400k isk to take down a 60k isk tank.

you clearly missed the whol,e point and just came here to rant nonsence completly unrelated to the thread.



why exactly are you spending the whole match trying to kill tanks? just equip AV nades and if they bother you trow a couple with your squad and BOOM tank either vanishes in pretty lights or goes away alowing you to continue infantry slaying.


the end result of your position is that you end up dying to the tank ANYWAYS and dont at least get soem AV nades on him as discouragement.

its WIN WIN for you to equip AV nades to all your suits... either you die by the tank that wouldve killed you ANYWAYS had you not equiped AV nades, or you scare it off and live where otherwise you would of lost a suit.


you fail at seeing the advantage to this.

you either die when you would of died anyways...

or you live wher eyou would of died....

theres nothign but advantages to that.

Or he can use locus grenades to save himself while he ignores the tank. I'd go ahead and say that is the biggest disadvantage to your suggestion: reduced effectiveness against everything else besides a tank. What he's saying is not nonsense and I believe it makes more sense than claiming that people should run AV nades in an effort to reduce the number of tanks seen on the field. If they're only meant to scare the tanks off if they "bother you" then what's to keep them away after you've run out of grenades? Tanks aren't afraid of infantry and the easiest counter for a tanker is to just come back later after they've wasted their grenades trying to scare it.

The end result of this "ignore the tanks because AV nades are worthless" position is that you stay away from tanks and focus on infantry. This is safer. There's no room for "if you had AV nades you would've survived" situations if you avoid them all together.

the fact that your list dealing with tanks is so small worrys me, i suggest you take some time to work on expanding it as there are many more options (hint look the title of the thread).

in no way to i advcate that this current metagame is balanced, i simply stated that there ARE currently solutions to the problem. the problem is that people arnt happy with the solutions, not that there isnt any.

and the counter that doesnt require damge is to avoid the tank, focus on objectives inside the dence cities with loads of cover.


like i said though you dont even want solutions to the problem so why are you still trying to continue this?

is it that you want me to say tanks are OP? well tanks are OP.


do you want me to say that the current solutions are not ideal? well the current solutions arnt ideal.


but just becuase they arnt ideal doesnt mean you can insist they dont exsist then refuse to use them thereby making the problem worse rather then better.

You tell me the list is small, then you give me a soultion from the list, AV grenades are AV.

Yes there are solutions, Ye people do adapt. But just because we can adapt doesn't mean the mechanic isn't broken. As you said during the BPO killer taxi days, every man and his dog had AV grenades. But that didn't stop people complaing about the broken mechanic, if didn't stop CCP providing a soultion.

And it won't stop it here.
Just because the soloutions currently available involve slim pickings, that doesn't mean we haven't employed them.

you listend the entirty of anything anti vehicle under one entry....

hence why i said it was a small list....

you listend the entirty of anything anti vehicle under one entry....

hence why i said it was a small list....