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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
856
   |
Posted - 2013.12.28 21:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's false.
Many people, mainly those who do not use it or have only used them in other shooter or games, tend to believe that the KB/M is better than "non-aim assisted DS3". The reality of the matter is that the KB/M of other games is very different from KB/M in DUST 514. It's main difference is that KB/M in other games, where it is supported, mainly in PC or otherwise, has aim assist. This simple fact creates a community that believes that the KB/M is a godly tool that gives an unfair edge over DS3 users to the wielder.
This little debate is hurtful to the game and the community at large. Many users of the DS3, pre aim assist, which was and is the majority of the player base, directly competed with KB/M users and largely bested them. During these times it wasn't rare to hear someone say " I would have totally won that engagement if he wasn't using KB/M!" but, how did the player that lost the engagement know he was using KB/M? The reality is that it was an excuse for being less of a player than the opponent. The majority of the times, simply because the majority of the players use them; it was a DS3 user that beat them.
The myth soon caught on though and KB/M users suffered for it. CCP devised a series of handicaps such as slowed turn speed and target repulsion, where if you where using a KB/M your crosshair would actively be repelled by the target (Very notable when using Vehicle turrets) making it very difficult to keep a steady aim.
Thus came the era of aim assist. Currently still happening, this came with the perk that the average DS3 users did not have to actually be decent with the tools of war as long as he knew how to point it at the general direction. Although the aim assist era also brought with it an un-handicapped KB/M, aim assist caused an exodus of KB/M users to the loving embrace of the DS3.
This all leads to a larger and more frightening truth . The community, at least most but not all of the ones that come here and *express* their rage, bad experiences etc. , do so without proper knowledge or experience of the mechanic they are criticizing or complaining about. This creates a series of changes that destroy the foundations of the this game since player feedback is, even if slightly, taken into account when making changes to the game.
While happy with the game to some extent; I must accept that CCP has dumbed it down? I can only hope that CCP follows their vision of what the game should be and not the misinformed version of what players that will probably only be here for a short period of time, is.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
For every niche there is a Rifle
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Stinker Butt
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
249
|
Posted - 2013.12.28 23:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
The turn speed and movement with a mouse is many times faster and has more precision than the DS3. It's more difficult to make fine movements quickly with a DS3 than a mouse.
I use a move controller. But on the rare occasion that I'm not using the move, I use a kb/mouse because for me it is still superior - with or without aim assist.
If the average player stats are the same with kb/mouse vs DS3, then any argument would be invalid. unfortunately we don't have that information available to us.
Edit: that guy in the video doesn't even move. that's not realistic at all. shooting while dancing makes all the difference.
Please give tanks some balance
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Beld Errmon
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
1183
|
Posted - 2013.12.28 23:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP isn't gunna fix the KB/M problem, just get yourself an eagle eye or splitfish and enjoy KB/M plus aim hacks. |
Vitharr Foebane
Living Like Larry Schwag
442
|
Posted - 2013.12.28 23:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Meh... I use both DS3 and KB/M. The DS3 is for my HMG while the KB/M makes trolltasic FG snipes possible
Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3
That's no excuse though to slack off on releasing a heavy laser =.=
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
1225
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 00:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
KBM for shooter is better, like the wheel it's better for driving games.
Idk how it works on Dust, but usually kbm is better.
Surely left right strafe is faster.
"Our Blueberries are better than yours"
My Terribad Bolas Launcher
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
856
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Posted - 2013.12.29 00:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:KBM for shooter is better, like the wheel it's better for driving games.
Idk how it works on Dust, but usually kbm is better.
Surely left right strafe is faster.
Saying this type of things and being misinformed is everything that is wrong with the dust community. Half the time people talk as if they know. KB/M is good on shooters that have AA. Every shooter on PC and everywhere else have AA. Dust 514 mouse does not. Your point is flawed in that you do not back up your point with reasoning.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
For every niche there is a Rifle
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
856
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 00:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:The turn speed and movement with a mouse is many times faster and has more precision than the DS3. It's more difficult to make fine movements quickly with a DS3 than a mouse.
I use a move controller. But on the rare occasion that I'm not using the move, I use a kb/mouse because for me it is still superior - with or without aim assist.
If the average player stats are the same with kb/mouse vs DS3, then any argument would be invalid. unfortunately we don't have that information available to us.
Edit: that guy in the video doesn't even move. that's not realistic at all. shooting while dancing makes all the difference.
What you say is true only if you dont tamper with your setting and after AA. Before AA KB/M had a hard cap on how fast you could turn just like the heavies could turn slower. They eliminated handicaps from the KB/M is because the DS3 with AA is too good. making bad players into fairly good ones and very good players into godly ones.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
For every niche there is a Rifle
|
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
1225
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 00:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:shaman oga wrote:KBM for shooter is better, like the wheel it's better for driving games.
Idk how it works on Dust, but usually kbm is better.
Surely left right strafe is faster. Saying this type of things and being misinformed is everything that is wrong with the dust community. Half the time people talk as if they know. KB/M is good on shooters that have AA. Every shooter on PC and everywhere else have AA. Dust 514 mouse does not. Your point is flawed in that you do not back up your point with reasoning.
IMO a PS3 shooter should not support KBM at all, but that is another problem.
You can't deny that kbm is better for shooter in general, for dust, idk, i've tried once in chromo, but the position of my screen does not allow me to play with kbm, comfortably.
I've played single player fps on pc with or without AA, your movements are faster and your precision is better with kbm.
"Our Blueberries are better than yours"
My Terribad Bolas Launcher
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Cosgar
ParagonX
9041
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 00:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
I love how people base their mythos on kb/m superiority off other games, never mind the fact that its been severely gimped on Dust to the point that AA (which actually operates as an aim-bot) gives controllers the unfair advantage. People complain about this superior turn speed, never mind the fact that you wind up randomly spinning in circles, fine aiming that requires compensation for input lag due to joystick emulation and many other issues that cause you to fight quit he your prefered device more than the guy in front of you.
Been saying this for months, but it falls in deaf ears: give kb/m raw input and controllers the same customization options as if this were a PC game. Don't gimp one to compensate for social dogma. It's a giant middle finger to a significant portion of the community.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1329
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 00:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
At this current point I see no problem with giving KBM aim assist if they want it.
But that is not where the problem lies with KBM, instead it lies with input method.
DS3 is analogue, this means the resistance allows voltage changes to represent a change in strength/magnitude of an action. Sometimes to great effect.
KBM uses digital input, you are always maximum one way or maximum the other. This allows for what I like to call the texan 2 step, which is the rapid strafing with in a confined area. Now before 1.4, before Aim Assist and Hit detection fixes, it was possibly to texan 2 step THROUGH bullets. You would literally do a matrix.
Now CCP tried to alleviate this with aim assisst and kbm emulating controller input, and to a large degree it has worked. But that is why KBM used to be OP, why you can't have raw input and why so many of the vet kbm users believe kbm to be inferior.
Because CCP fixed a problem.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
858
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Posted - 2013.12.29 00:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:shaman oga wrote:KBM for shooter is better, like the wheel it's better for driving games.
Idk how it works on Dust, but usually kbm is better.
Surely left right strafe is faster. Saying this type of things and being misinformed is everything that is wrong with the dust community. Half the time people talk as if they know. KB/M is good on shooters that have AA. Every shooter on PC and everywhere else have AA. Dust 514 mouse does not. Your point is flawed in that you do not back up your point with reasoning. IMO a PS3 shooter should not support KBM at all, but that is another problem. You can't deny that kbm is better for shooter in general, for dust, idk, i've tried once in chromo, but the position of my screen does not allow me to play with kbm, comfortably. I've played single player fps on pc with or without AA, your movements are faster and your precision is better with kbm. BTW i didn't read well before, i recognize kbm players from their strafe, left-right is fast as hell but too wide to perform it with a DS3.
Well it's like I said. People say KB/M is better for shooters in general because of aim assist. They do not understand that when they use the KB/M in any other title, they have aim assist on it. Precision is better because aim assist gives you the help you need to not over aim and stick to the target when on them.
FPS on the PS3 not supporting KB/M on the PS3 is a narrow minded way of thinking. When they created the PS3, the KB/M got include into the supported hardware. Hence it is, based on the foundations of fair play, as acceptable as using the Playstation move which lets you do a variety of things that are not possible with the controller. I very much disagree with that way of thought. Not knowing how something works in the game before saying anything about it is a mistake that happens way too often.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
For every niche there is a Rifle
|
Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
296
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Posted - 2013.12.29 00:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
I will say this again:
The mouse is a precision based input, meaning that if you move the mouse by such an amount, you turn by such an amount. The keyboard also is an on/off switch, meaning that there is no acceleration changes going from one direction to the other.
The controller is an acceleration based input, meaning that the more you tilt the joystick, the higher the acceleration is.
Because most FPS allow players to turn at retardly high speeds, the mouse is incredibly unrealistic and much more powerful.
There really is not competition at all between a DS and a mouse/KB in a straight up fight.
I have no clue why people prefer mouse/kb. Most types of aftermarket controllers attempt to increase the realism of control (joysticks for flight sims, wheels for racers, light guns for shooters) where as the mouse/kb goes in the complete opposite direction.
All that being said, I do see that CCP wants it in game, and as such they must make an accelleration based input compete against a precision based input. So you either have aim assist (which I really hate) or you can put acceleration on the mouse/kb.
This means turn speed limits, no instant start/stopping, and basically momentum based emulation. Your choice.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
858
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Posted - 2013.12.29 00:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Because CCP fixed a problem.
Before AA KB/M had handicaps to help out DS3 users. Now KB/M oesnt have handicapps but DS3 has an aim assist that does not require you to aim for your sights to stay on target and even if they are off you still hit with bullet magnetism.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
For every niche there is a Rifle
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1331
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 00:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Because CCP fixed a problem.
Before AA KB/M had handicaps to help out DS3 users. Now KB/M oesnt have handicapps but DS3 has an aim assist that does not require you to aim for your sights to stay on target and even if they are off you still hit with bullet magnetism.
Bullet Magnetism? You mean Aim Assit curves bullets?
The old KBM handicaps were unfair on KBM users, they were applied above and beyond the suit rotation limiters. This meant that KBM could never spin any faster than 80 DS3 sensitivity, which as handicap is pretty poor.
It also didn't solve the texan 2 step, whic was incredibly prelevant back then. The handicaps didn't solve anything.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
859
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Posted - 2013.12.29 01:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Bullet Magnetism? You mean Aim Assit curves bullets?
Yes. Although not "as extreme", bullet magnetism is still present in Dust 514. The first day of AA you could shoot right next to the target and still hit him as if you where aiming right at his face. Now it's less but still present. Enough so that if you look closely at recent footage you can notice it and if you test it you can see it for yourself ^^.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
For every niche there is a Rifle
|
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1333
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 01:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Bullet Magnetism? You mean Aim Assit curves bullets?
Yes. Although not "as extreme", bullet magnetism is still present in Dust 514. The first day of AA you could shoot right next to the target and still hit him as if you where aiming right at his face. Now it's less but still present. Enough so that if you look closely at recent footage you can notice it and if you test it you can see it for yourself ^^.
You realise that its hit detection, don't you?
Also good job at skirting my main point.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
831
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Posted - 2013.12.29 01:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mostly true, but it won't change how people perceive the whole thing. Just pick up a controller and get ready to enjoy the BF3-low TTK.
ROFL PC Coordinator
Fix framerate by 1.8
Pony
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
569
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 01:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:The turn speed and movement with a mouse is many times faster and has more precision than the DS3. It's more difficult to make fine movements quickly with a DS3 than a mouse.
I use a move controller. But on the rare occasion that I'm not using the move, I use a kb/mouse because for me it is still superior - with or without aim assist.
If the average player stats are the same with kb/mouse vs DS3, then any argument would be invalid. unfortunately we don't have that information available to us.
Edit: that guy in the video doesn't even move. that's not realistic at all. shooting while dancing makes all the difference.
The more the guy shoots the stronger the aim assist... the more you move your straffing on a DS3 and the less you touch your aim joystick... the better the aim assist locks on... that straffy moving fight your talking about is benefited even more by aim assist.
M/KB isn't a precision device in anyway... frame skips and drops will throw off any consistency with using your mouse... So muscle memory under any lag is useless... and considering the state of the frame rate and lag issues currently in DUST...
DS3 will at least track skipping and stop frame targets... and has a consistency with a competition controller where you can match the full moving speed targets with little no no input into the DS3... even with the best aim out there on mouse... its near impossible to track a moving target that isn't 70m away..
Basically all this isn't really true... But you use the Move right? and have a giant opinion on mouse and keyboard  |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
569
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 01:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Bullet Magnetism? You mean Aim Assit curves bullets?
Yes. Although not "as extreme", bullet magnetism is still present in Dust 514. The first day of AA you could shoot right next to the target and still hit him as if you where aiming right at his face. Now it's less but still present. Enough so that if you look closely at recent footage you can notice it and if you test it you can see it for yourself ^^. You realise that its hit detection, don't you? Also good job at skirting my main point.
Stop with this hit detection crap Monkey. It isn't even close to that being the issue. We have had good Hit detection. We have had Aim assist like this in dust.
Guess what the problem was then? Aim assist... The entire community at that time mostly hand picked by CCP(for gamer credentials) or actually payed to play DUST beta... knew this..its was a giant community protest AGAINST aim assist. still this problem will always happen in DUST with Aim assist...always will be the problem and no matter how much you don't feel like you should have to Aim in a FPS..... or that not having to worry about aiming makes this a tactical shooter...This game suffers, every time we cater to this lazy idea players have at playing a FPS, DUST takes a hit. Games are not supposed to be easy... and Casual's don't expect games to be easy.
If everyone was dieing to bullets that are actually aim'ed by that player... then TKK is not an issue in anyway... all the OP weapons complained about are no longer OP.... its player skill.
But everyone praising Aim assist wants DUST to be a game where everyone hides behind boxes... All we have is a giant cowards game right now everytime a new player leaves a box 3 new players lock on with aim assist and hes dead in half a second.. So we just have a bunch of new players cowering behind the very few boxes and structures in DUST... and we have lost any challenge... and any real sense of achievement that made DUST magical in the moment to moment gameplay.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
569
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 02:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
KBM uses digital input, you are always maximum one way or maximum the other. This allows for what I like to call the texan 2 step, which is the rapid strafing with in a confined area. Now before 1.4, before Aim Assist and Hit detection fixes, it was possibly to texan 2 step THROUGH bullets. You would literally do a matrix.
What you are talking about is Stutter stepping on the DS3... and the fact that you can't recognize it speaks pretty loudly.. .to why u get face rolled by the players that know it.
This was always a straffy tracky shooter... if a target simply moving makes aiming to hard for you... ... wtf are you playing a FPS for?
My gawd... these forums and the stupidity its breeding. |
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gg JKl
7
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Posted - 2013.12.29 02:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
http://gizmodo.com/5593116/were-pc-gamers-too-good-for-microsofts-cross+platform-gaming-project |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
569
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 02:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
gg JKl wrote:http://gizmodo.com/5593116/were-pc-gamers-too-good-for-microsofts-cross+platform-gaming-project
Welcome to something done near what a decade ago? then Unreal tournament and gears of wars was talking about CROSS PLATFORM
Meaning one player on a crazy hardware improved PC and mouse and keyboard... and one on a console with a game pad... Stop this propaganda bullshit that has nothing to do with this situation.
This is accurate information regrarding being M/KB support on a console...
Quote:When bringing Counter-Strike to PS3 and Xbox, we wanted to make sure we weren't 'noobing' it, or dumbing it down. The game has an entry point for new players in its Casual Mode, but it's not ticking off the top players," he said.
"We think that if you're really good with the controller, and you can match the fidelity of movement of the mouse and keyboard, then you'll hold your own. If not, well, you'll just be matched with people who play like you," Faliszek said, adding that PS3 players can also use a mouse and keyboard if they choose. Valve Software |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1334
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 02:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Bullet Magnetism? You mean Aim Assit curves bullets?
Yes. Although not "as extreme", bullet magnetism is still present in Dust 514. The first day of AA you could shoot right next to the target and still hit him as if you where aiming right at his face. Now it's less but still present. Enough so that if you look closely at recent footage you can notice it and if you test it you can see it for yourself ^^. You realise that its hit detection, don't you? Also good job at skirting my main point. Stop with this hit detection crap Monkey. It isn't even close to that being the issue. We have had good Hit detection. We have had Aim assist like this in dust. Guess what the problem was then? Aim assist... The entire community at that time mostly hand picked by CCP(for gamer credentials) or actually payed to play DUST beta... knew this..its was a giant community protest AGAINST aim assist. still this problem will always happen in DUST with Aim assist...always will be the problem and no matter how much you don't feel like you should have to Aim in a FPS..... or that not having to worry about aiming makes this a tactical shooter...This game suffers, every time we cater to this lazy idea players have at playing a FPS, DUST takes a hit. Games are not supposed to be easy... and Casual's don't expect games to be easy. If everyone was dieing to bullets that are actually aim'ed by that player... then TKK is not an issue in anyway... all the OP weapons complained about are no longer OP.... its player skill. But everyone praising Aim assist wants DUST to be a game where everyone hides behind boxes... All we have is a giant cowards game right now everytime a new player leaves a box 3 new players lock on with aim assist and hes dead in half a second.. So we just have a bunch of new players cowering behind the very few boxes and structures in DUST... and we have lost any challenge... and any real sense of achievement that made DUST magical in the moment to moment gameplay.
Heh heh, you mean the aim assisst that was released the exact same time significant hit detection improvements were made?
Do you realise how much extra code would have to go into bullet magnetism? You would have to create an algorithm that physically causes the hitscan function to change direction based on the enemy movement (thats hitscan, different from aim), then to hit behind walls would require the hit scan to change trajectory mid-flight.
Which is impossible to do because a hitscan is instantaneous. What you are observing is the warping of the hit detection box under lagged conditions. The hit detection box physically trails the user, in an attempt to compensate for lag between the hitscan being called and the hitscan actually acting its method.
Stutter Stepping, Chop Strafing call it what you like, it can't be done on a standard DS3 contoller due to its analogue input medium. To stutter strafe requires the user to rapidly switch between left and right on the joystick, this causes acceleration. A physical delay between moving in different directions stops stutter strafing working on the joystick, instead you get a rather lazy sway.
With a Kbm you use a digital input, there is no acceleration. There is no delay to change in direction, it is completely seamless, this results in the KBM user rapidly shifting direction, sometimes so fast some older games couldn't physically keep up.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
507
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 02:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
AA makes **** players good.
If KB/M is so flipping good why is it so hard to accurately hit people in close quarters even with full auto weapons (And especially when frame rate gets low) yet AA easy mode boys tear at me with ungodly accuracy?
At least I know every kill I get is because I hit them in a FPS game where the whole challenge is to test ones accuracy and things like that. Not some semi aim hack doing the majority of the work for me. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
571
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 02:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Bethhy wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Bullet Magnetism? You mean Aim Assit curves bullets?
Yes. Although not "as extreme", bullet magnetism is still present in Dust 514. The first day of AA you could shoot right next to the target and still hit him as if you where aiming right at his face. Now it's less but still present. Enough so that if you look closely at recent footage you can notice it and if you test it you can see it for yourself ^^. You realise that its hit detection, don't you? Also good job at skirting my main point. Stop with this hit detection crap Monkey. It isn't even close to that being the issue. We have had good Hit detection. We have had Aim assist like this in dust. Guess what the problem was then? Aim assist... The entire community at that time mostly hand picked by CCP(for gamer credentials) or actually payed to play DUST beta... knew this..its was a giant community protest AGAINST aim assist. still this problem will always happen in DUST with Aim assist...always will be the problem and no matter how much you don't feel like you should have to Aim in a FPS..... or that not having to worry about aiming makes this a tactical shooter...This game suffers, every time we cater to this lazy idea players have at playing a FPS, DUST takes a hit. Games are not supposed to be easy... and Casual's don't expect games to be easy. If everyone was dieing to bullets that are actually aim'ed by that player... then TKK is not an issue in anyway... all the OP weapons complained about are no longer OP.... its player skill. But everyone praising Aim assist wants DUST to be a game where everyone hides behind boxes... All we have is a giant cowards game right now everytime a new player leaves a box 3 new players lock on with aim assist and hes dead in half a second.. So we just have a bunch of new players cowering behind the very few boxes and structures in DUST... and we have lost any challenge... and any real sense of achievement that made DUST magical in the moment to moment gameplay. Stutter Stepping, Chop Strafing call it what you like, it can't be done on a standard DS3 contoller due to its analogue input medium. To stutter strafe requires the user to rapidly switch between left and right on the joystick, this causes acceleration. A physical delay between moving in different directions stops stutter strafing working on the joystick, instead you get a rather lazy sway.
????????????????????????????????????????? AHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH so you really are just that... ahahahahah
You really don't know a thing about what your talking about. And even worse you have no idea about DUST...
Aim assist was the 1.4 patch in September.
Hit detection revamps was done in 1.5.
And one day you will get stutter stepping.. and its a very real skill in DUST.
The absolute bullshit you spew over and over to defend your will to not actually aim for yourself... to the point where you want to give keyboard and mouse aim assist is sick...
GO play checkers you hurt this community and the game. |
XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
860
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Posted - 2013.12.29 02:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:
Edit: that guy in the video doesn't even move. that's not realistic at all. shooting while dancing makes all the difference.
I made the video and if you would have watched it completely you would have noticed that I moved to simulate strafing. Watch the whole thing because I moved so everyone would see simulated strafing which my test subject and I where doing.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
For every niche there is a Rifle
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1337
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 02:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Bethhy wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:
Yes. Although not "as extreme", bullet magnetism is still present in Dust 514. The first day of AA you could shoot right next to the target and still hit him as if you where aiming right at his face. Now it's less but still present. Enough so that if you look closely at recent footage you can notice it and if you test it you can see it for yourself ^^.
You realise that its hit detection, don't you? Also good job at skirting my main point. Stop with this hit detection crap Monkey. It isn't even close to that being the issue. We have had good Hit detection. We have had Aim assist like this in dust. Guess what the problem was then? Aim assist... The entire community at that time mostly hand picked by CCP(for gamer credentials) or actually payed to play DUST beta... knew this..its was a giant community protest AGAINST aim assist. still this problem will always happen in DUST with Aim assist...always will be the problem and no matter how much you don't feel like you should have to Aim in a FPS..... or that not having to worry about aiming makes this a tactical shooter...This game suffers, every time we cater to this lazy idea players have at playing a FPS, DUST takes a hit. Games are not supposed to be easy... and Casual's don't expect games to be easy. If everyone was dieing to bullets that are actually aim'ed by that player... then TKK is not an issue in anyway... all the OP weapons complained about are no longer OP.... its player skill. But everyone praising Aim assist wants DUST to be a game where everyone hides behind boxes... All we have is a giant cowards game right now everytime a new player leaves a box 3 new players lock on with aim assist and hes dead in half a second.. So we just have a bunch of new players cowering behind the very few boxes and structures in DUST... and we have lost any challenge... and any real sense of achievement that made DUST magical in the moment to moment gameplay. Stutter Stepping, Chop Strafing call it what you like, it can't be done on a standard DS3 contoller due to its analogue input medium. To stutter strafe requires the user to rapidly switch between left and right on the joystick, this causes acceleration. A physical delay between moving in different directions stops stutter strafing working on the joystick, instead you get a rather lazy sway. ????????????????????????????????????????? AHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH so you really are just that... ahahahahah You really don't know a thing about what your talking about. And even worse you have no idea about DUST... Aim assist was the 1.4 patch in September. Hit detection revamps was done in 1.5. And one day you will get stutter stepping.. and its a very real skill in DUST. The absolute bullshit you spew over and over to defend your will to not actually aim for yourself... to the point where you want to give keyboard and mouse aim assist is sick... GO play checkers you hurt this community and the game.
Yes of course because the guy who went to university and did coursework on input methods and their pros and cons in games for his computer games module is wrong. My sincerest Apologies o All knowing master!
The OP said he doesn't understand why KBM doesn't have Aim Assist, there is no reason why it can't?
Oh and here are the patch notes for 1.4 notice the
'EVEN MORE HIT DETECTION IMPROVEMENTS' 1.4 Patch notes
And finally you may call it rubbish but I can explain what you blindly believe to be false. Its like playing chess with a pigeon, no matter what logic I use, no matter what tactics I use, in the end the pigeon will **** on the board, knock over a few pieces and strut around like owns the place.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
299
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 02:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:
????????????????????????????????????????? AHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH so you really are just that... ahahahahah
You really don't know a thing about what your talking about. And even worse you have no idea about DUST...
Aim assist was the 1.4 patch in September.
Hit detection revamps was done in 1.5.
And one day you will get stutter stepping.. and its a very real skill in DUST.
The absolute bullshit you spew over and over to defend your will to not actually aim for yourself... to the point where you want to give keyboard and mouse aim assist is sick...
GO play checkers you hurt this community and the game.
Mind sourcing your hit detection revamps being 1.5 and not 1.4?
I looked here(1.4) and here(1.5) but I only see hit detection fixes in 1.4
Also as far as I remember the aim assists and hit detection fixes came in the same patch, and that is why everyone for the first 1-2 months was saying that it was the combination of both that was causing the horrendous TTK.
Then 1.6 came with even further hit detection fixes and TTK has bottomed out.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1339
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 02:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Bethhy wrote:
????????????????????????????????????????? AHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH so you really are just that... ahahahahah
You really don't know a thing about what your talking about. And even worse you have no idea about DUST...
Aim assist was the 1.4 patch in September.
Hit detection revamps was done in 1.5.
And one day you will get stutter stepping.. and its a very real skill in DUST.
The absolute bullshit you spew over and over to defend your will to not actually aim for yourself... to the point where you want to give keyboard and mouse aim assist is sick...
GO play checkers you hurt this community and the game.
Mind sourcing your hit detection revamps being 1.5 and not 1.4? I looked here(1.4) and here(1.5) but I only see hit detection fixes in 1.4 Also as far as I remember the aim assists and hit detection fixes came in the same patch, and that is why everyone for the first 1-2 months was saying that it was the combination of both that was causing the horrendous TTK. Then 1.6 came with even further hit detection fixes and TTK has bottomed out.
Magnus, your 1.6 link, links to 1.5 again.
Bethy wrote:
You really don't know a thing about what your talking about. And even worse you have no idea about DUST...
Aim assist was the 1.4 patch in September.
Hit detection revamps was done in 1.5.
Sorry What was that?
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
299
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Magnus, your 1.6 link, links to 1.5 again.
Thanks, fixed.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
575
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Posted - 2013.12.29 03:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Bethhy wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Bethhy wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
You realise that its hit detection, don't you?
Also good job at skirting my main point.
Stop with this hit detection crap Monkey. It isn't even close to that being the issue. We have had good Hit detection. We have had Aim assist like this in dust. Guess what the problem was then? Aim assist... The entire community at that time mostly hand picked by CCP(for gamer credentials) or actually payed to play DUST beta... knew this..its was a giant community protest AGAINST aim assist. still this problem will always happen in DUST with Aim assist...always will be the problem and no matter how much you don't feel like you should have to Aim in a FPS..... or that not having to worry about aiming makes this a tactical shooter...This game suffers, every time we cater to this lazy idea players have at playing a FPS, DUST takes a hit. Games are not supposed to be easy... and Casual's don't expect games to be easy. If everyone was dieing to bullets that are actually aim'ed by that player... then TKK is not an issue in anyway... all the OP weapons complained about are no longer OP.... its player skill. But everyone praising Aim assist wants DUST to be a game where everyone hides behind boxes... All we have is a giant cowards game right now everytime a new player leaves a box 3 new players lock on with aim assist and hes dead in half a second.. So we just have a bunch of new players cowering behind the very few boxes and structures in DUST... and we have lost any challenge... and any real sense of achievement that made DUST magical in the moment to moment gameplay. Stutter Stepping, Chop Strafing call it what you like, it can't be done on a standard DS3 contoller due to its analogue input medium. To stutter strafe requires the user to rapidly switch between left and right on the joystick, this causes acceleration. A physical delay between moving in different directions stops stutter strafing working on the joystick, instead you get a rather lazy sway. ????????????????????????????????????????? AHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH so you really are just that... ahahahahah You really don't know a thing about what your talking about. And even worse you have no idea about DUST... Aim assist was the 1.4 patch in September. Hit detection revamps was done in 1.5. And one day you will get stutter stepping.. and its a very real skill in DUST. The absolute bullshit you spew over and over to defend your will to not actually aim for yourself... to the point where you want to give keyboard and mouse aim assist is sick... GO play checkers you hurt this community and the game. Yes of course because the guy who went to university and did coursework on input methods and their pros and cons in games for his computer games module is wrong. My sincerest Apologies o All knowing master! The OP said he doesn't understand why KBM doesn't have Aim Assist, there is no reason why it can't? Oh and here are the patch notes for 1.4 notice the 'EVEN MORE HIT DETECTION IMPROVEMENTS' 1.4 Patch notesAnd finally you may call it rubbish but I can explain what you blindly believe to be false. Its like playing chess with a pigeon, no matter what logic I use, no matter what tactics I use, in the end the pigeon will **** on the board, knock over a few pieces and strut around like owns the place.
Read the forums hit detection was ABYSMAL in 1.4 ask anyone check the history of the forum rants... you just have to actually know whats going on in DUST. "Dat Hit detection" didnt even start entering peoples profiles on PSN until 1.6 because hit detection sucked... we all thought aim assist was the band aid for hit detection. EVERYONE. and most said CCP would band aid hit detection.
You can goto school; and assume some professor will tell you the pros and cons and teach you how to competitively play a FPS on a gamepad with stutter stepping... or the FACT that it is USED and actively taught... in DUST... and some of the best in the game know and use it... then you say it doesn't exist? Welcome to the thing used since chromosome that apparently is impossible.??????????? clueless much.
Stutter stepping is fact in DUST no matter what your teacher told you.
Yet again even discussing a keyboard and mouse having aim assist should make you throw up in your mouth a little... The fact that players are buying a 60 dollar peice of hardware and actively using a Aim assist on the keyboard and mouse should leave you outraged as a FPS player...
Instead we get this response for 3 months from you monkey "there is no problem everything is ok because my teacher told me so"
FML ..........
*Edit 100% right 1.6 was hit detection fixes, thought i put or meant 1.6? but clearly was a mistake regardless. |
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1339
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Bethhy wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Bethhy wrote:
Stop with this hit detection crap Monkey. It isn't even close to that being the issue. We have had good Hit detection. We have had Aim assist like this in dust.
Guess what the problem was then? Aim assist... The entire community at that time mostly hand picked by CCP(for gamer credentials) or actually payed to play DUST beta... knew this..its was a giant community protest AGAINST aim assist. still this problem will always happen in DUST with Aim assist...always will be the problem and no matter how much you don't feel like you should have to Aim in a FPS..... or that not having to worry about aiming makes this a tactical shooter...This game suffers, every time we cater to this lazy idea players have at playing a FPS, DUST takes a hit. Games are not supposed to be easy... and Casual's don't expect games to be easy.
If everyone was dieing to bullets that are actually aim'ed by that player... then TKK is not an issue in anyway... all the OP weapons complained about are no longer OP.... its player skill.
But everyone praising Aim assist wants DUST to be a game where everyone hides behind boxes... All we have is a giant cowards game right now everytime a new player leaves a box 3 new players lock on with aim assist and hes dead in half a second.. So we just have a bunch of new players cowering behind the very few boxes and structures in DUST... and we have lost any challenge... and any real sense of achievement that made DUST magical in the moment to moment gameplay.
Stutter Stepping, Chop Strafing call it what you like, it can't be done on a standard DS3 contoller due to its analogue input medium. To stutter strafe requires the user to rapidly switch between left and right on the joystick, this causes acceleration. A physical delay between moving in different directions stops stutter strafing working on the joystick, instead you get a rather lazy sway. ????????????????????????????????????????? AHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH so you really are just that... ahahahahah You really don't know a thing about what your talking about. And even worse you have no idea about DUST... Aim assist was the 1.4 patch in September. Hit detection revamps was done in 1.5. And one day you will get stutter stepping.. and its a very real skill in DUST. The absolute bullshit you spew over and over to defend your will to not actually aim for yourself... to the point where you want to give keyboard and mouse aim assist is sick... GO play checkers you hurt this community and the game. Yes of course because the guy who went to university and did coursework on input methods and their pros and cons in games for his computer games module is wrong. My sincerest Apologies o All knowing master! The OP said he doesn't understand why KBM doesn't have Aim Assist, there is no reason why it can't? Oh and here are the patch notes for 1.4 notice the 'EVEN MORE HIT DETECTION IMPROVEMENTS' 1.4 Patch notesAnd finally you may call it rubbish but I can explain what you blindly believe to be false. Its like playing chess with a pigeon, no matter what logic I use, no matter what tactics I use, in the end the pigeon will **** on the board, knock over a few pieces and strut around like owns the place. Read the forums hit detection was ABYSMAL in 1.4 ask anyone check the history of the forum rants... you just have to actually know whats going on in DUST. "Dat Hit detection" didnt even start entering peoples profiles on PSN until 1.5 because hit detection sucked... we all thought aim assist was the band aid for hit detection. EVERYONE. and most said CCP would band aid hit detection. You can goto school; and assume some professor will tell you the pros and cons and teach you how to competitively play a FPS on a gamepad with stutter stepping... or the FACT that it is USED and actively taught... in DUST... and some of the best in the game know and use it... then you say it doesn't exist? Welcome to the thing used since chromosome that apparently is impossible.??????????? clueless much. Stutter stepping is fact in DUST no matter what your teacher told you. Yet again even discussing a keyboard and mouse having aim assist should make you throw up in your mouth a little... The fact that players are buying a 60 dollar peice of hardware and actively using a Aim assist on the keyboard and mouse should leave you outraged as a FPS player... Instead we get this response for 3 months from you monkey "there is no problem everything is ok because my teacher told me so" FML ..........
I love how your argument against me has absolutely no logic in it. I have attempted to educate you as I have been, but like the pigeon you ignore fact and logic.
Because you say it is, it must be so.
If the OP wants Aim Assist let him have, if you realy are as elite as you say you are, you would understand the need for a condensed skill base, you would welcome the challenge of going against aim assissted players, without aim assisst.
Edit: CEOPyrex complaing about Aim Assist and Hit detection.
http://youtu.be/6QI4wmuzjmU
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
860
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Because you say it is, it must be so.
If the OP wants Aim Assist let him have, if you realy are as elite as you say you are, you would understand the need for a condensed skill base, you would welcome the challenge of going against aim assissted players, without aim assisst.
OP thinks AA is OP hence it should either be eliminated or toned way further than it actually is. OP also thinks and states with his original post that the community usually likes to talk a lot and ask for nerfs and changes to things they don't understand and that has led to the current lopsided mechanics that exist in dust 514
Plasma Cannon Advocate
For every niche there is a Rifle
|
Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1339
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Because you say it is, it must be so.
If the OP wants Aim Assist let him have, if you realy are as elite as you say you are, you would understand the need for a condensed skill base, you would welcome the challenge of going against aim assissted players, without aim assisst.
OP thinks AA is OP hence it should either be eliminated or toned way further than it actually is. OP also thinks and states with his original post that the community usually likes to talk a lot and ask for nerfs and changes to things they don't understand and that has led to the current lopsided mechanics that exist in dust 514
Nice quick change routine.
Quote:Well it's like I said. People say KB/M is better for shooters in general because of aim assist.
Here you orginally said that KBM is only believed to be superior because you said PC games have aim assisst on them.
You cited that as the reason why KBM is inferior on DUST, that if the DS3 should have aim assisst so to should KBM, that was your pre edit OP.
But never mind, Pigeon, Chessboard and all that jazz!
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
|
XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
860
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Because you say it is, it must be so.
If the OP wants Aim Assist let him have, if you realy are as elite as you say you are, you would understand the need for a condensed skill base, you would welcome the challenge of going against aim assissted players, without aim assisst.
OP thinks AA is OP hence it should either be eliminated or toned way further than it actually is. OP also thinks and states with his original post that the community usually likes to talk a lot and ask for nerfs and changes to things they don't understand and that has led to the current lopsided mechanics that exist in dust 514 Nice quick change routine. Quote:Well it's like I said. People say KB/M is better for shooters in general because of aim assist. Here you orginally said that KBM is only believed to be superior because you said PC games have aim assisst on them. You cited that as the reason why KBM is inferior on DUST, that if the DS3 should have aim assisst so to should KBM, that was your pre edit OP. But never mind, Pigeon, Chessboard and all that jazz!
Yes that quote is so people understand why they believe KB/M is better than DS3. Not that I wanted it in there. It is nowhere stated That I prefered it to have AA. I think aim assist should be off for FW and PC
Plasma Cannon Advocate
For every niche there is a Rifle
|
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
577
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:I love how your argument against me has absolutely no logic in it. I have attempted to educate you as I have been, but like the pigeon you ignore fact and logic. Because you say it is, it must be so. If the OP wants Aim Assist let him have, if you realy are as elite as you say you are, you would understand the need for a condensed skill base, you would welcome the challenge of going against aim assissted players, without aim assisst. Edit: CEOPyrex complaing about Aim Assist and Hit detection. http://youtu.be/6QI4wmuzjmU
If your quoting Pyrex about anything it says a lot... to everyone.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/
Compressed player skill gaps are one thing... and actually something almost every major FPS title is actively moving away from. besides CoD and and BF4 which are building terrible reputations in the FPS community.
There is a reason Kill zone has no aim assist.
If this was a fast 1 shot headshot deaths with near every gun sure aim assist could help? still very debatable...
Aim assist hasn't compressed player skill gapsin DUST. Its made the gap from a new player to a Veteran player with skill points and health even bigger... now that there is no personal aiming skill involved.. This game isn't one with finite health points and everyone is on a even playing field and we need Aim assist to condense the player skill on the battlefield so it apeals to everyone better..
If you give both parties super aim, then give one party massive bonus's in health and damage... and expect player skill to be to be condensed? Its a hilarious thought. and makes no sense in practicality..
Yet again so you understand Stutter stepping is fact in DUST. no matter what your trying to pretend. its fact. |
taxi bastard
Minor Trueblood
95
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 05:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
As a PC gamer who got on the PS3 to play dust.......I have no clue why Dust is even supporting KB/M
If you use the KB/M and you want a lvl playing field use the DS3.
from my PC games I know using the KB/M will give you some advantages.
I personally find that aiming with a mouse is a lot easier than the DS3, for long ranged shots against moving targets I should imagine the difference is huge as you have far better control.
moving on the keyboard has a lot quicker reaction than the DS3 again
clicking a mouse if that is the fire button I can do easily over twice as fast as pressing R1
for Dust these are huge advantages, I really would like to know what the disadvantages are ? unfortunately I cannot break off the keyboard from my laptop to try it.
when people have the option to simply go back to the DS3, yet choose not too it really does make one wonder how much the advantages of the KB/M - AA vs DS3 + AA still is? Its like FOTM chasing without the need for a respect......if the DS3 really was better they simply could just dust it off. 99% of people come from a PS3 background so for the most part they are used to the controller.
calling for both systems to have the same conditions seems from my perspective unfair and punishes those who play the game as originally intended. CCP have a lot more import things to do currently than balancing the different control types so maybe they should simply stop supporting the KB/M and boom we have a level playing field.
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bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
764
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 07:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1644625#post1644625 |
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