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Jason Pearson
3657
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Posted - 2013.12.27 06:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am a strong believer that things such as triple hardener fitted tanks break the game, it completely removes the idea of waves of opportunity, where both Vehicles and AV get a chance to beat the other, Vehicles get it when their actives are on, AV get in when vehicles actives are off, however some builds completely destroy that idea.
Let's look at a Gunnlogi with three complex hardeners wiith max skills. Each hardener lasts for 30 seconds and has a cooldown of 45 seconds, this by itself isn't bad, however you now have two more of these with your fit. By activating your hardeners at the right time, you're able to continously sit in a hardened state, unaffected by most AV which is ridiculous, yes tanks are intended to be strong but not like this. So here's a suggestion..
For every hardener, add 50% cooldown per module. this would mean that with three hardeners on your tank, you'd incur a large cooldown penalty even if you only have one active.
1: 45 2: 67.5 (22.5) 3: 101.25 (22.5+33.75)
So, to clarify, if you have three hardeners on your tank with max skills and at complex, you're going to be running a hardener for 30 seconds with a cooldown of 101.25 secs (1 minute 41.25). This would mean with all three running at once you would be extremely strong allowing you to have this customization aspect DUST has said there would be, but in turn you sacrifice a lot by having to wait for a while till you can get back out into the fight.
For those that whine about militia tanks being too strong to kill (you know, the ones using militia hardeners on sicas?), at 0SP investment, a militia hardener runs for 24 seconds and has a cooldown for 100 seconds, by placing two on the vehicle it's now at 150 seconds (2 minutes 30 seconds) per hardener. This means AV will have a massive amount of time to hit back at militia tanks but they can still be useful and can still fight other tanks.
Now, I know what you're thinking, what's the point when they can just recall and then get another tank with no cooldowns, my second suggestion. Remove the ability to recall any vehicle with a cooldown on it. This suggestion means that all vehicles will not be able to be recalled if they've just activated a module and not only helps the above idea but also means AV have time to push an attack on vehicle that is behind cover with its pilot trying to recall.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
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Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
605
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Posted - 2013.12.27 06:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
while I agree with that this change would help with this situation, I still have a disagreement with the ability to have more than one hardner on a tank.
Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today?
I do maths, and sit in a corner.
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JL3Eleven
1432
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Posted - 2013.12.27 06:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Just wondering how much SP you have in tanks. My tank alt has only 5m SP yet can compete against 95% of tankers I've seen.
iLB6
FUB9
Now is the best time to ever practice/learn tanking.
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Jason Pearson
3657
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Posted - 2013.12.27 06:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:Just wondering how much SP you have in tanks. My tank alt has only 5m SP yet can compete against 95% of tankers I've seen.
I'd like to ask what relevance that has? We all know tanks can easily compete against eachother, problem is AV shouldn't be stuck on the sidelines and have to have more players to kill a single HAV, it's gamebreaking. Tanks die pretty quickly once their hardeners go down, problem is most fits have atleast two hardeners meaning at complex with max skills it's so easy to tank and rack up kills without dying.
Oh, 20mil.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
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JL3Eleven
1432
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Posted - 2013.12.27 06:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:Just wondering how much SP you have in tanks. My tank alt has only 5m SP yet can compete against 95% of tankers I've seen. I'd like to ask what relevance that has? We all know tanks can easily compete against eachother, problem is AV shouldn't be stuck on the sidelines and have to have more players to kill a single HAV, it's gamebreaking. Tanks die pretty quickly once their hardeners go down, problem is most fits have atleast two hardeners meaning at complex with max skills it's so easy to tank and rack up kills without dying. Oh, 20mil.
I told you I was just wondering. I've never tanked before 1.7 so I'm new at it.
iLB6
FUB9
Now is the best time to ever practice/learn tanking.
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Jason Pearson
3657
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Posted - 2013.12.27 06:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:Just wondering how much SP you have in tanks. My tank alt has only 5m SP yet can compete against 95% of tankers I've seen. I'd like to ask what relevance that has? We all know tanks can easily compete against eachother, problem is AV shouldn't be stuck on the sidelines and have to have more players to kill a single HAV, it's gamebreaking. Tanks die pretty quickly once their hardeners go down, problem is most fits have atleast two hardeners meaning at complex with max skills it's so easy to tank and rack up kills without dying. Oh, 20mil. I told you I was just wondering. I've never tanked before 1.7 so I'm new at it.
Sorry heh, people only seem to ask how much SP you have in something so they can just refuse the idea outright for either: You have less SP than me, you're not good enough yet You have more SP than me, but I'm better than you so get good.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
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Jason Pearson
3661
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Posted - 2013.12.27 17:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bump.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
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ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
292
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Posted - 2013.12.27 17:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:
Now, I know what you're thinking, what's the point when they can just recall and then get another tank with no cooldowns, my second suggestion. Remove the ability to recall any vehicle with a cooldown on it. This suggestion means that all vehicles will not be able to be recalled if they've just activated a module and not only helps the above idea but also means AV have time to push an attack on vehicle that is behind cover with its pilot trying to recall.
You're right, this is exactly what I was thinking as I read your post. Nice preemptive comeback. I like the idea.
YouTube
30D Recruiting
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
5099
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Posted - 2013.12.27 17:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
A sensible tanker! Madness! Absolute madness! Sorcery!
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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G Torq
ALTA B2O
332
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Posted - 2013.12.27 17:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
While I like the idea, I'm still a proponent of only allowing a single hardener (of any type) on a vehicle,
Team Fairy DUST
HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
1057
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Posted - 2013.12.27 17:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maybe not so harsh like 35-40% but understandable.
Tanker/Assault
Can I have my ADV and PRO tanks now (Honeyed Lamb enroute).
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noob cavman
Tickle My Null-Sac
324
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 17:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
You know something is amiss when I have to pull out a tank or my lav for av duty. So plus one to you on that
Hey mlt tank guess what my lav is ready and I GOT TWO TICKETS TO PARADISE!!!
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
402
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Posted - 2013.12.27 18:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
The problem is, limiting to one hardener breaks the games own rules. No other equipment acts that way. Unless we add a special slot to vehicles that only hardeners fit, and give each 1.
In another thread, I proposed some penalties for using hardeners. They should be modules that allow you to tank out a situation a bit, but right now they are being used as simply god mode once AV gets involved to escape any danger. Stack 2 of them at the same time and my adv forge gun barely scratches 10% of an armor tanks health.
I proposed an equal speed decrease to go along side the damage reduction. Make hardeners act like a "siege" mode. Where you are pretty hard to kill, but you are pretty immobilized too. This would really stop the current AV issue of tanks just popping hardeners and fleeing. And would allow infantry to wait out hardeners a bit more since right now, we have to engage while hardeners are up, because otherwise the tank will be long gone before it runs out. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
1838
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 18:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:A sensible tanker! Madness! Absolute madness! Sorcery! Egads!
It's good to keep a dialog going so instead of a nerf hammer we can actually balanced without breaking.
Most people don't realize that and stupid things like "Don't touch my ScR rifle!"
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
946
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Posted - 2013.12.27 18:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nice idea, however, even with 3 hardeners I still have to patrol back around to the redline for a cooldown. Before I got back up to gunnlogi on this char redo I had a guy mail me asking why am I afking in a tank rather than in the MCC. i was on cooldown with two enhanced hardeners.
Point is that tanks are already in trouble of ppl just complaining they're useless if they need cooldowns and further promoting the idea that only infantry assault is a valid playstyle.
Already stacking shield hardeners delay depleted shield recharge. How about we make stacked mods just reduce the buff %?
Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn!
BURN DUST 2014
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Lv2spd2
Slow And Old
148
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Posted - 2013.12.27 18:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote: For every hardener, add 50% cooldown per module. this would mean that with three hardeners on your tank, you'd incur a large cooldown penalty even if you only have one active.
I like your idea.
Another option for a similar effect would be to tie all hardners on any tank together. So if you turn one on they all come on. No cycling for non stop hardening that way.
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Kane Fyea
Scions of Athra
2495
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 18:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't think it should be that harsh of a penalty but the idea is still good. Maybe make it like dmg mods stacking penalty instead of 50% penalty every time. |
StaySqueezy
ZilchmobZ Industries
5
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Posted - 2013.12.27 18:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
The tanks are super poeerful but they are tanks so i wouldnt call them op. They just need to be a hell of a lot more expensive. One tank is cheaper than 3 duvolle's which is crazy. Tanks should be around 350k atleast.
"How do you keep a dog from biting you on monday?".........."You kill it on sunday."
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
1579
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Posted - 2013.12.27 18:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
What is it with you and wanting tankers to only use 1 hardener? You sound like a die-hard infantryman. Are you sick or something?
Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
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Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
3176
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Posted - 2013.12.27 18:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
50% is a bit intense
Lack of content makes stuff broken...
Tank driver // specialized tank destroyer
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
2050
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Posted - 2013.12.27 19:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Now your messing with cooldown numbers
Generally we have stacking penalties, in the case of the 3 hardener gunlogi it doesnt really apply since you do turn them on in sequence but you just because you do have one on all the time doesnt mean you are unkillable but puts you in a better situation but that is due to the fit but you cant sonic speed or use dmg mods or a scanner or booster but its the drivers choice
My problem is this, its ment to be a sandbox game and with an idea like this its does throw the sand out of the box because you are being punished for fitting it how you like
Its like saying this for infantry, if you put on more than 1 shield extender you will get less shield HP added with each mod after the 1st one, so it will go from 66 to 50 to 33 for example when it doesnt happen
Now if cap is ever added would the penalty still apply? for example you max out the cap support skills and are able to perma rep 2 hardeners but the 3rd you can only pulse so when that is turned off do you still have the 141sec cooldown penalty? along with the stacking penalty where it gives you less resistance on that 2nd/3rd mod so then instead of having 1 penalty you get 2 because you choose to use more than 1 mod
It doesnt seem to fit the sandbox way because you are being told what you can and cant fit and also makes the cooldown skill utterly useless for the hardeners
Intelligence is OP
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1992
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Posted - 2013.12.27 19:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
That might work.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Jason Pearson
3669
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Posted - 2013.12.27 19:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:What is it with you and wanting tankers to only use 1 hardener? You sound like a die-hard infantryman. Are you sick or something?
I don't like seeing broken mechanics end up nerfing us, fact is we need to balance the multiple hardeners, that's the true problem, the fact that there is no "waves of opportunity" for anyone else other than tanks because we can stack three complex and go loose.
I figured this would be a better solution rather than make it one hardener only, and ofcourse 50% was more of a number I threw out there.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
1579
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Posted - 2013.12.27 19:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:What is it with you and wanting tankers to only use 1 hardener? You sound like a die-hard infantryman. Are you sick or something? I don't like seeing broken mechanics end up nerfing us, fact is we need to balance the multiple hardeners, that's the true problem, the fact that there is no "waves of opportunity" for anyone else other than tanks because we can stack three complex and go loose. I figured this would be a better solution rather than make it one hardener only, and ofcourse 50% was more of a number I threw out there. Broken mechanics didn't nerf us, infantry did, because they believed they should be the most effective at doing everything in the game.
Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
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Jason Pearson
3670
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Posted - 2013.12.27 19:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Now your messing with cooldown numbers
Generally we have stacking penalties, in the case of the 3 hardener gunlogi it doesnt really apply since you do turn them on in sequence but you just because you do have one on all the time doesnt mean you are unkillable but puts you in a better situation but that is due to the fit but you cant sonic speed or use dmg mods or a scanner or booster but its the drivers choice
My problem is this, its ment to be a sandbox game and with an idea like this its does throw the sand out of the box because you are being punished for fitting it how you like
Its like saying this for infantry, if you put on more than 1 shield extender you will get less shield HP added with each mod after the 1st one, so it will go from 66 to 50 to 33 for example when it doesnt happen
Now if cap is ever added would the penalty still apply? for example you max out the cap support skills and are able to perma rep 2 hardeners but the 3rd you can only pulse so when that is turned off do you still have the 141sec cooldown penalty? along with the stacking penalty where it gives you less resistance on that 2nd/3rd mod so then instead of having 1 penalty you get 2 because you choose to use more than 1 mod
It doesnt seem to fit the sandbox way because you are being told what you can and cant fit and also makes the cooldown skill utterly useless for the hardeners
With one hardener you can negate most AV for a period of time, with three you can do it constantly.
The reason I was thinking about this was due to the very conversation we had in IRC on this, the fact that limiting it would remove that element, you can build it how you want but you can only have one of these, which isn't cool. Don't treat Infantry the same as us Taka, they're not invincible against most players on the field :P
Cap as in Capacitor? To be fair then if it happens then CCP are going to have to rework the system a little bit and these posts on balance don't apply.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
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Jason Pearson
3670
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 19:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:What is it with you and wanting tankers to only use 1 hardener? You sound like a die-hard infantryman. Are you sick or something? I don't like seeing broken mechanics end up nerfing us, fact is we need to balance the multiple hardeners, that's the true problem, the fact that there is no "waves of opportunity" for anyone else other than tanks because we can stack three complex and go loose. I figured this would be a better solution rather than make it one hardener only, and ofcourse 50% was more of a number I threw out there. Broken mechanics didn't nerf us, infantry did, because they believed they should be the most effective at doing everything in the game.
Sorry, "I don't want to see broken mechanics end up nerfing us". And it is broken, the ability to run a hardener constantly is ridiculous.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
2645
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 19:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:What is it with you and wanting tankers to only use 1 hardener? You sound like a die-hard infantryman. Are you sick or something? Multiple hardners break the "waves of opportunity" ideal. Your supposed to have a wave of incredible strength, followed by a wave of weakness.
I played a Domination map with you yesterday and your Gunnlogi had it's hardners down once. Can you tell me that's not broken?
We finally deployed in the MinFW Match!
\o/
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
2645
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Posted - 2013.12.27 19:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote: Broken mechanics didn't nerf us, infantry did, because they believed they should be the most effective at doing everything in the game.
All while tanks are the most effective at doing everything in the game.
Heck, all infantry is good for anymore is hacking objectives, which doesn't even become a factor when you can easily butcher 150 clones before the MCC's shields fail. (bar PC)
We finally deployed in the MinFW Match!
\o/
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Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1427
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 20:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:What is it with you and wanting tankers to only use 1 hardener? You sound like a die-hard infantryman. Are you sick or something? I don't like seeing broken mechanics end up nerfing us, fact is we need to balance the multiple hardeners, that's the true problem, the fact that there is no "waves of opportunity" for anyone else other than tanks because we can stack three complex and go loose. I figured this would be a better solution rather than make it one hardener only, and ofcourse 50% was more of a number I threw out there. Broken mechanics didn't nerf us, infantry did, because they believed they should be the most effective at doing everything in the game. Sorry, "I don't want to see broken mechanics end up nerfing us". And it is broken, the ability to run a hardener constantly is ridiculous.
Jason sees ahead. I'm still taking out tanks. SOLO. (not like before, but still doing it) So why is it that I'm not up there saying "AV IS FINE!" Cause it's not. Not for the new guys. Not for many of the old guys either.
This is a fps game with vehicles. always was. When the nerf comes, you will know why. Had CCP ever wanted a vehicles first, so negate infantry kinda a game, they would have made a RTS. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
403
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Posted - 2013.12.27 20:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Honest question. How are you taking out decent/good tanks/tankers solo?
The only method I can think of is tank traps with REs. Which while decent, still relies on a tanker mistake.
There is no real way for solo AV to kill tankers if tankers play smart. |
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Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1427
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 20:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Honest question. How are you taking out decent/good tanks/tankers solo?
The only method I can think of is tank traps with REs. Which while decent, still relies on a tanker mistake.
There is no real way for solo AV to kill tankers if tankers play smart.
One way is to get them while they calling in. That means hang out behind them.
Other way is to RE and Proto SL combo. (while hardeners are down) Very hard, cause they will run, (they always run. I'm a bloody scout and they run...) but some make mistakes and won't get away fast enough, or bump into something.
LV5 proto Sl with 2 complex DMG mods still can kill tanks. Re adds that added insurance. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1427
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 20:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
I have patience to wait for your first tank to go down.. so I can't destroy the other one getting called in.
*don't bother looking for us, we don't show up on scanner*
I don't up on the High kill mark. But Bagging more trophies (tanks) then dying is always a good day. |
Jason Pearson
3676
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 20:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Honest question. How are you taking out decent/good tanks/tankers solo?
The only method I can think of is tank traps with REs. Which while decent, still relies on a tanker mistake.
There is no real way for solo AV to kill tankers if tankers play smart.
Either Officer Forge against tanks with just a single hardener, or my Missile Gunnlogi.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
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Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES
1058
|
Posted - 2013.12.27 20:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
While balance would be better, I am fine with tanks getting nerfed back into the dirt. I've seen so many people quit because tank 514 is boring. I love tanking but hate having to do it every match just so our team doesn't get rolled.
I for one can't wait for tanking to have its cool down.
There was a time we fought good tankers. Now we just fight good tanks.
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G Torq
ALTA B2O
333
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Posted - 2013.12.27 20:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:While balance would be better, I am fine with tanks getting nerfed back into the dirt. I've seen so many people quit because tank 514 is boring. I love tanking but hate having to do it every match just so our team doesn't get rolled.
I for one can't wait for tanking to have its cool down. We went against a couple of "tank-equipped" teams today, and using a LAV with a good gunner and missiles, ate a few of them.... Lesson? You don't need a HAV to counter them - mix it up!
Team Fairy DUST
HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
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Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES
1059
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Posted - 2013.12.27 21:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
Perhaps you people misunderstand efficiency. Why waste half your squad and lavs? A decent tanker can wreck these clowns. I just hate having to be that guy every match. In my corp almost everyone has some form of proto Av. It is just a waste of time and isk to deploy it. It is more cost effective to go tank on tank.
There was a time we fought good tankers. Now we just fight good tanks.
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Aqil Aegivan
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
246
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Posted - 2013.12.27 21:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
What if hardener cooldown were paused while any additional hardeners were active?
Long waves would require long pauses, short ones short pauses. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1932
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Posted - 2013.12.28 06:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aqil Aegivan wrote:What if hardener cooldown were paused while any additional hardeners were active?
Long waves would require long pauses, short ones short pauses.
So would they all cool down at once then?
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
918
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Posted - 2013.12.28 07:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote: . . OP POST . .
Even though I don't agree on triple hardened tanks' superiority,
that cooldown increase is EXACTLY what's needed. The waiting period is far too short. With skills, it's minimal.
The concept of militia tanks not being weaker by HP or resistance nor dps is GREAT. The idea that they have cool down longer while more SP invested players can run a bigger percentage of their game doing what they are specialized in is also great.
+1 as should all tankers and AVers alike do.
Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance?
The fix:
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THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
426
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Posted - 2013.12.28 08:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
Or better yet, while a hardener is running repair and shield regen only work for a 40%/60% respectively. This means that a tanks buffer is worth more but they can't constantly rep through everything.
ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist
Amarr Sentinel | Amarr Logi | Losematar Scout
What is a signature?
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
2052
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Posted - 2013.12.28 11:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Now your messing with cooldown numbers
Generally we have stacking penalties, in the case of the 3 hardener gunlogi it doesnt really apply since you do turn them on in sequence but you just because you do have one on all the time doesnt mean you are unkillable but puts you in a better situation but that is due to the fit but you cant sonic speed or use dmg mods or a scanner or booster but its the drivers choice
My problem is this, its ment to be a sandbox game and with an idea like this its does throw the sand out of the box because you are being punished for fitting it how you like
Its like saying this for infantry, if you put on more than 1 shield extender you will get less shield HP added with each mod after the 1st one, so it will go from 66 to 50 to 33 for example when it doesnt happen
Now if cap is ever added would the penalty still apply? for example you max out the cap support skills and are able to perma rep 2 hardeners but the 3rd you can only pulse so when that is turned off do you still have the 141sec cooldown penalty? along with the stacking penalty where it gives you less resistance on that 2nd/3rd mod so then instead of having 1 penalty you get 2 because you choose to use more than 1 mod
It doesnt seem to fit the sandbox way because you are being told what you can and cant fit and also makes the cooldown skill utterly useless for the hardeners With one hardener you can negate most AV for a period of time, with three you can do it constantly. The reason I was thinking about this was due to the very conversation we had in IRC on this, the fact that limiting it would remove that element, you can build it how you want but you can only have one of these, which isn't cool. Don't treat Infantry the same as us Taka, they're not invincible against most players on the field :P Cap as in Capacitor? To be fair then if it happens then CCP are going to have to rework the system a little bit and these posts on balance don't apply.
But it makes my cooldown skill utterly useless for hardeners
Another skill bites the dust while more sand is being chucked out
The 3 hardener tank is no more of a problem than a 3dmg modded tank and frankly i dont see it all the time anyways and blaster will still rip through the gunlogi with 1 hardener on and so will a FG/PLC, only with 2 on at the same time is the defence up well but a rail tank will still hit hard through 2
There is counters and it doesnt seem to be a major problem, most tanks i see are armor still and blaster and mostly militia
Intelligence is OP
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
404
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Posted - 2013.12.28 13:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:Honest question. How are you taking out decent/good tanks/tankers solo?
The only method I can think of is tank traps with REs. Which while decent, still relies on a tanker mistake.
There is no real way for solo AV to kill tankers if tankers play smart. One way is to get them while they calling in. That means hang out behind them. Other way is to RE and Proto SL combo. (while hardeners are down) Very hard, cause they will run, (they always run. I'm a bloody scout and they run...) but some make mistakes and won't get away fast enough, or bump into something. LV5 proto Sl with 2 complex DMG mods still can kill tanks. Re adds that added insurance.
Well not in one clip so this is also only true for bad tankers, but yes bad tankers can be solod...the smart ones rather not so much unless you bring another tank.
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Jason Pearson
3683
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Posted - 2013.12.28 14:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Now your messing with cooldown numbers
Generally we have stacking penalties, in the case of the 3 hardener gunlogi it doesnt really apply since you do turn them on in sequence but you just because you do have one on all the time doesnt mean you are unkillable but puts you in a better situation but that is due to the fit but you cant sonic speed or use dmg mods or a scanner or booster but its the drivers choice
My problem is this, its ment to be a sandbox game and with an idea like this its does throw the sand out of the box because you are being punished for fitting it how you like
Its like saying this for infantry, if you put on more than 1 shield extender you will get less shield HP added with each mod after the 1st one, so it will go from 66 to 50 to 33 for example when it doesnt happen
Now if cap is ever added would the penalty still apply? for example you max out the cap support skills and are able to perma rep 2 hardeners but the 3rd you can only pulse so when that is turned off do you still have the 141sec cooldown penalty? along with the stacking penalty where it gives you less resistance on that 2nd/3rd mod so then instead of having 1 penalty you get 2 because you choose to use more than 1 mod
It doesnt seem to fit the sandbox way because you are being told what you can and cant fit and also makes the cooldown skill utterly useless for the hardeners With one hardener you can negate most AV for a period of time, with three you can do it constantly. The reason I was thinking about this was due to the very conversation we had in IRC on this, the fact that limiting it would remove that element, you can build it how you want but you can only have one of these, which isn't cool. Don't treat Infantry the same as us Taka, they're not invincible against most players on the field :P Cap as in Capacitor? To be fair then if it happens then CCP are going to have to rework the system a little bit and these posts on balance don't apply. But it makes my cooldown skill utterly useless for hardeners Another skill bites the dust while more sand is being chucked out The 3 hardener tank is no more of a problem than a 3dmg modded tank and frankly i dont see it all the time anyways and blaster will still rip through the gunlogi with 1 hardener on and so will a FG/PLC, only with 2 on at the same time is the defence up well but a rail tank will still hit hard through 2 There is counters and it doesnt seem to be a major problem, most tanks i see are armor still and blaster and mostly militia
Actually it does.
with the skill giving a 25% reduction to cooldowns, you get this with a complex:
No Skills 1 .60 2. 90 3. 135
Max Skills 1. 45 2. 67.5 3. 101.25
So it does something, and you still have to wait to use your modules. As for your damage mods, I am in support of this system for all actives, meaning you'd want to mix it up rather than stack triple damage mods or triple hardeners, but you could still do it.
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