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[REQUEST] Infantry Scouts And Special Modules

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Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 786	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:02:00 - [1] - Quote Alright. My body is ready for all the hate I'm about to be subject to. -SCOUT ROLE IDEAS- //:Recon -Fastest-moving Scouts that have very good Scan Precision. Downside: Very VERY low HP. The Recon's bonus should be a decrease on cooldown for a module I'll mention earlier. -These are best for scouting out the enemy while avoiding conflict. All things scanned by this role are shared with ALL SQUADMATES. //:Infiltrator -Slow-moving Scouts (Compared to others) that have a very low Scan Profile. Downside: Can only fit sidearms, and, like I said, are slower. Have a bonus to hiding Cloak shimmer (When cloak is released). -These would be used for battlefield assassinations. Running in and out of enemy-held locations to take out snipers, uplinks, heavies, or just general scouting. //:Overseer -Average-speed Scouts that have a high Scan Range and Low Scan Profile. Downside: Relatively low Slot Count. Has a bonus to Sniper Rifle zoom. -Best for watching the field from above, the Overseer is the battlefield sniper, that see everything and are hard to see. Increased Sniper Rifle zoom makes him an excellent spotter. //:Tactician -Higher-speed Scouts that have higher base Scan stats (Precision, Range, Dampening) than a Light suit, but not as big a bonus as the roles that have less than 3 stat increases*. Downside: Lower Health and can't fit grenades. Has a bonus to Primary Weapon RoF (By a minimal amount). -Made for picking and choosing his battles, the Tactician has high speed so he can get away quickly, and higher scan stats, which will help him decide whether or not he wishes to engage. Bonus to weapon RoF helps him eliminate targets quicker, but the loss of the grenade will prevent him from becoming a slightly-faster Assault suit. -SPECIAL MODULE IDEAS- I'll probably add more as I get less busy, but right now I only have one. //:Infantry MWD -In EVE, there's a module called the Micro Warp-drive. It basically makes you move VERY fast, letting you easily close distance, or just out-turn some of the bigger ships. In DUST, it would be like a mini teleport device. With a drawback. These would instantly teleport you 100m ahead, but have a 30 second cooldown afterwords. Suits like the Recon, which would have bonus to distance travelled and/or cooldown speed, could use this as a getaway device, or running further into enemy locations to get a look at their firepower. -Use and downside: Get it out, press R1, and jump IN THE DIRECTION YOUR FACING 100m. Only forward though. You can't go straight up. Downside: If you press it and there ends up being a wall obstructing your path, you instantly take damage based on how close to the wall you were in the first place. Damage capping at 200. Yup. Let me get something to protect myself from the oncoming storm. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Meee One Clones Of The Damned Zero-Day 41	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:39:00 - [2] - Quote I'm not a scout but these ideas sound good to meee. All but one:increased zoom for sniper rifles,unless the suit loses it's grenade AND sidearm.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 803	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:42:00 - [3] - Quote If it lost a grenade and a sidearm, it's be better to just use a Logistics, because I think trading equipment for zoom is a fair trade. Besides, it'll have a low slot count anyways. What you're creating is something that's like... 1 high 2 lows 1 equipment 1 weapon The Overseer should be able to defend himself, if the situation calls for it. +Zoom increase would be minimal. Like, 1-3% per level. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Meee One Clones Of The Damned Zero-Day 41	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:50:00 - [4] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: If it lost a grenade and a sidearm, it's be better to just use a Logistics, because I think trading equipment for zoom is a fair trade. Besides, it'll have a low slot count anyways. What you're creating is something that's like... 1 high 2 lows 1 equipment 1 weapon The Overseer should be able to defend himself, if the situation calls for it. +Zoom increase would be minimal. Like, 1-3% per level. So what you essentially want is a light commando that specialises in sniping. If they won't give heavy commando any weapon specialisations why be unfair and make a light suit that has it,why not just buff the commando they already have?
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 803	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:56:00 - [5] - Quote 1) I'm a Commando user. I've been wanting them to buff it since Day 1 of Uprising 1.2. 2) That's not what I want. The ONLY thing this has in common with the Commando is the low slot count, and even then, it still has slots at STD level. What I want: -1 high -2 lows -1 equipment -1 sidearm -1 light weapon -1 grenade That's the standard suit. This is the PROTO Commando: -2 highs -1 low -1 equipment -2 light weapons There's nothing alike in those, besides, again, low slot count. Also, "Why make it unfair by making a light suit that has weapon bonuses and the Commando doesn't", isn't really valid, considering they both play different roles. Overseer is battlefield watch and sniping/countersniping, Commando is ground point defense. Entirely different roles. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Meee One Clones Of The Damned Zero-Day 41	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:04:00 - [6] - Quote I agree with your layout MINUS the grenade AND sidearm. If you have so much zoom you would be insane to get close enough to need either. "Overseer" would "oversee" not "be in the midst of". Also it removes any temptation to get in close. It keeps the sniper on their toes and far away from active battle. Grenade and sidearm would be OP,for a suit that is supposed to specialise in LONG RANGE fighting.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 807	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:09:00 - [7] - Quote Ok, I'll lose Grenade, but the sidearm stays, because you still need something to defend yourself. You're forgetting the most basic phrase: If you don't go to the party, the party will be brought to you. No idea if you're a Logistics or not, but while sniping in a Logi suit, we die 99% of time at any range closer than 30m. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Meee One Clones Of The Damned Zero-Day 41	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:17:00 - [8] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Ok, I'll lose Grenade, but the sidearm stays, because you still need something to defend yourself. You're forgetting the most basic phrase: If you don't go to the party, the party will be brought to you. No idea if you're a Logistics or not, but while sniping in a Logi suit, we die 99% of time at any range closer than 30m. You may keep your sidearm at a cost: -1 low slot -or- -1 equipment slot
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 807	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:19:00 - [9] - Quote Are you bargaining with things that I made? That's terrible. :( ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Meee One Clones Of The Damned Zero-Day 41	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:27:00 - [10] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Are you bargaining with things that I made? That's terrible. :( For a scout suit designed to hide and flee quickly it isn't. Especially since a player would have to have a very good scanner (ADV or better) to even find the basic model. You're picturing a sniper fending of enemies,i'm picturing a sniper that knows his limits and falling back to a more advantageous location.

Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 807	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:36:00 - [11] - Quote I'm not picturing a sniper fending off enemies. I'm picturing a sniper actually doing his job. 1) Getting out of the redline and finding a good vantage point on the flanks of the field. 2) Calling out enemy locations, assets, etc. If someone brings in a tank, the Overseer will know before anyone else. 3) SUPPORTING friendlies by taking out a clone or two. I know how Sniping works. I've been sniping since early open beta, and understand game mechanics better than most vets I know. I own a teaching school, and I co-founded a groups of corporation dedicated to the teaching of newbies. I think I know the limits of a sniper. :) Low Profile, in this situation, is to prevent counter-snipers from scanning him. High radius is to see the battlefield more clearly. Also, I never stated the actual numbers on Scan Profile, so they COULD use a STD scanner to see the basic suit. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Meee One Clones Of The Damned Zero-Day 41	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:47:00 - [12] - Quote If your job is sniping and someone sneaks up on you,you are bad at your job. Long distance suits should only accel at long distance combat,and be weak to any other type.(weaknesses are essential to prevent suits from becoming OP) With your suggestions you may as well just give the zoom bonus to assault suits.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 807	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:50:00 - [13] - Quote Ok, ok. Here's this. The Scout was originally designed with a Sniper Rifle. Before your time, in the days of "Chromosome" you had different classes to choose from: Arbiter, Artificer, Enforcer, Sentinel. Arbiter came with a Scout suit, with a Sniper RIfle, and a Submachien Gun. What I'm proposing here is basically that, but with a low slot count in exchange for lower Scan Profile and a higher Scan Radius. If it's a long-range suit, it won't become OP if it has a weapon that's WEAKER than a light weapon, to defend itself. If someone comes at you with an Assault Rifle, and you kill him with a Submachine Gun, you deserve that kill. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Meee One Clones Of The Damned Zero-Day 41	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:59:00 - [14] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Ok, ok. Here's this. The Scout was originally designed with a Sniper Rifle. Before your time, in the days of "Chromosome" you had different classes to choose from: Arbiter, Artificer, Enforcer, Sentinel. Arbiter came with a Scout suit, with a Sniper RIfle, and a Submachien Gun. What I'm proposing here is basically that, but with a low slot count in exchange for lower Scan Profile and a higher Scan Radius. If it's a long-range suit, it won't become OP if it has a weapon that's WEAKER than a light weapon, to defend itself. If someone comes at you with an Assault Rifle, and you kill him with a Submachine Gun, you deserve that kill. Again, long distance suits should only accel at long distance combat. ANY short-medium range weapons would unbalance the suits purpose. If you must have a sidearm simply pick another class. If a short-medium range attacker comes at a long range attacker the long range attacker has two options: -flee (which would be smart) -die
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 875	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:02:00 - [15] - Quote 1. They're called "Light Dropsuits" now. 2. We already have a "Recon Dropsuit". It's called the "Scout Dropsuit". 3. Tactician is a terrible name. Also, it shares its role with the Scout Dropsuit. 4. MWD for Infantry is a terrible idea. You should be ashamed of yourself. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 811	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:04:00 - [16] - Quote Man, why are you hateful? :( ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 875	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:08:00 - [17] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Man, why are you hateful? :( Oh, Artificer Ghost, you made this thread? Sorry, I didn't notice. I just automatically went into criticism mode. Sowwy. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 811	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:09:00 - [18] - Quote I always have trouble deciding whether or not your trolling... You need to get like, an indicator or something... ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 875	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:32:00 - [19] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: whether or not your trolling... you're What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?* The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 811	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:39:00 - [20] - Quote ... continually slams head against keyboard Whatever. /re-rail ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition

Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3383	Posted - 2013.12.24 16:13:00 - [21] - Quote Here we go again. Just gonna stand back and see what fantastic posts come from those with no experience with the frame. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 814	Posted - 2013.12.24 16:17:00 - [22] - Quote I run Scout myself, so these are just my takes on the different roles. I run mostly Assassination-type Scouts (SMG and Knives with insanely low Profile), but I've done Shotgun Scouts, Raider Scouts (Drop uplink behind enemy lines), etc. But yay for people commenting on this that haven't had experience with the different roles. :P ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3383	Posted - 2013.12.24 16:26:00 - [23] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: I run Scout myself, so these are just my takes on the different roles. I run mostly Assassination-type Scouts (SMG and Knives with insanely low Profile), but I've done Shotgun Scouts, Raider Scouts (Drop uplink behind enemy lines), etc. But yay for people commenting on this that haven't had experience with the different roles. :P Oh I know you have experience with it, I'm referring to the idiots that're gonna come in here and tell us how to play a class we've been running for years. Without any solid experience themselves. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 815	Posted - 2013.12.24 16:29:00 - [24] - Quote Ah ok. Have I fought against you or do you just take me for my word? Either way, I kill many things. 27/0 with an all MLT/STD (Except my dampeners) Minmatar Assassin. I think the term is "Minja". I really need the Minmatar Scout suit to I can OHK ADV suits with my basic knives... Or I could just get ADV M-Scout and fit my enhanced dampener AND knives. A WHOLE NEW WORLD OF OPTIONS! ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 980	Posted - 2013.12.24 16:32:00 - [25] - Quote I disagree with this idea as these suits are far too limiting. It gives scouts a HUGE sp sink just to fill all of the roles that should be filled by a single suit, the scout (the overseer I would prefer to be a different light suit, like a 2xlight weapon sniper/AV suit). The MWD is also not going to work. What happens if there is a slight hill in the direction you warp? Just make it give a large increase to movement and sprint speed with the explanation that it is allowing the user to rapidly make very short jumps in the direction of their movement. !
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 817	Posted - 2013.12.24 16:41:00 - [26] - Quote Right, I did forget to mention that the MWD can handle sloped terrain. But if it's a straight-up wall, you take damage. An increase in movement speed was something that I considered, and it still is an option, but something about it just seemed too bland. Maybe if there were some neat effects, I wouldn't be against it. I just want something that looks pretty. :D The Overseer with 2 lights would be just a better Commando suit, and that would completely stomp out one role. Not good. :P I don't feel like every role should be filled by one suit. There'd be no actual good options for Light Infantry Users. It'd just be "Ok, here's your Scout suit, it does everything mediocre". BUT, if I wasn't interested in say, the Recon role the Scout fills, then why would I need to sacrifice my ability as an Assassin BECAUSE it fills that role? Right now, the Scout is a jack of all trades, master of none, and I'm proposing roles that WOULD be a master of one role, but had minimal skill in all others. Also, it's not an unneeded SP sink, it's pretty much the same as having Assault and Logistics. :P ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 981	Posted - 2013.12.24 16:55:00 - [27] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: The Overseer with 2 lights would be just a better Commando suit, and that would completely stomp out one role. Not good. :P I don't feel like every role should be filled by one suit. There'd be no actual good options for Light Infantry Users. It'd just be "Ok, here's your Scout suit, it does everything mediocre". BUT, if I wasn't interested in say, the Recon role the Scout fills, then why would I need to sacrifice my ability as an Assassin BECAUSE it fills that role? Right now, the Scout is a jack of all trades, master of none, and I'm proposing roles that WOULD be a master of one role, but had minimal skill in all others. Also, it's not an unneeded SP sink, it's pretty much the same as having Assault and Logistics. :P That's because the Commando is UP atm. The commando is geared to be an adaptable mini-tank meant to fight on the fringes of fights. The overseer is a long-range hunter that would have a light suit's health without the scan profile reduction (and it can have a lower base speed). Anyone trying to use the suit for direct mid-range or CQC combat would be suicidal. So each suit has a different purpose. Except you are asking for scouts to have twice the sp sink that medium suits do. This is more akin to splitting the logi up so that there is a Medic Logi, Nano Logi, and Uplink Logi. The base scout suit should be a jack of all trades but through the use of modules the scout suit should be able to obtain mastery in one (or be a better jack). !
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 818	Posted - 2013.12.24 17:12:00 - [28] - Quote Well, like I said, these are completely different roles. I'm not making them get L3 in Scouts, and THEN skill into, say, Recon. I'm making them skill L3 into FRAMES, and then into Recon. And, IF it were to be the way you're thinking of, I'm pretty sure that they're going to eventually make branching roles anyways. I see your point with the Overseer having 2 light weapons though. But again, there shouldn't only be one option for Light Infantries. I'm not saying remove the Scout, not at all, but at least make suits that actually have designated roles, rather than the current ONE suit that has no real role unless you build it to be that role, which is good, don't get me wrong. Using customization to flesh out your playstyle is good, but I'd be willing to sacrifice my suit's speed in exchange for a better bonus, and Scan Profile WITHOUT putting on modules. And then I can be even better WITH modules. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 818	Posted - 2013.12.24 17:17:00 - [29] - Quote ATM, you can only get X Scan Profile on a Scout. If you got the Infiltrator, which has a lower base Scan Profile, a fully fit Infiltrator can get lower than X, avoiding scans easier. On a Scout, you can only get X speed. If you get the Recon, which has higher base speed, a fully fit Recon get get higher than X, running longer distances in shorter periods of time. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Oswald Rehnquist 947	Posted - 2013.12.24 18:57:00 - [30] - Quote I'm actually going to do a TLDR first T3- This is exactly how T3s should function if they ever do come out Type A/B- Gives the scout the much needed diversity in utility that we have been waiting for T2- I need some more insight on how your envisioning this. There is definitely a lot of creativity that went into this, and a good basic understanding of the roles scouts fill. With that much specialization, this is ideal for T3 suits or Type A and B variations of scouts as a way to give them more detail without giving them more slots, but if we are talking about more separate T2 suits the only issue I see is that every single specific role is going to be divided up into a single specific suit. Consider that the logi has its scout lite logi (min), an assault lite logi (amarr), and a two tank heavy logis within a single suit, that allows for quite a bit of variety with just one class of suit. We could theoretically divide up the scout by force recon and combat recons T2 variations, any further and it might be a a stretch (or I just lack imagination) As for active modules I came up with this list a while ago, there is definitely changes I would make now, it was more of a brainstorming than anything else on how to connect it to racially preferred ewar https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1423666#post1423666 You would be a fun person to talk to about scout racial bonuses as I can see that you have creative juices. Below 28 dB



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