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Chosokabe Ite
Shields Of The State
73
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Posted - 2013.12.21 06:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since CCP is going to give the Scout suits a look over, I figure I'd toss up my ideas. I think there's a way for each suit to relay some sort of useful/helpful info that justifies it's "Scout" label. We need to give each scout a role that will make them not only desirable but in some cases needed for victory. Let's start with the two we got already.
-Minmatar Scout- Role: Assassin
When it comes to it's role and bonus, there's isn't anything that needs to be changed. So why am I bringing it up? Because I think it can be used more tactically(if that's the right word to use) by adding one thing, a kill beacon. The suit should broadcast every kill to it's allies through the Tac-net. A small, downward pointing dagger icon will flash above every killed enemy for a couple seconds (doesn't matter what weapon is used to kill, same icon will appear.). What that dagger tells you depends on when you see it and where. It could tell you a pesky sniper's been taken care of, or that nobody is manning that hostile turret anymore, or just let you know you got someone behind the lines making a nuisance of himself and distracting enemies. Put teamwork into it and that beacon can tell you a lot more.
-Gallente Scout- Role: Locator
This suit should be a walking active scanner, every enemy it senses should be seen by allies. That would better compliment it's skill bonus. If it already does that then cool, no changes needed.
Now for the suits we have yet to receive. I've got some neat role ideas for the Caldari and Amarr scouts.
-Caldari Scout- Role: Identifier
What could make this scout useful is the ability to tell you what you're facing. This scout could ID enemy suit/vehicle types, it's label appearing over the enemy, just above the "enemy unit" icon. For standard frames, the label "Light", "Medium", or "Heavy" will appear. For specialized suits, it'll show "Assault", "Commando", "Logistics", ect (same logic for vehicles). Depending on your Caldari Scout skill, you can ID more than one suit to a max of 5; The 5 closest to the center of your hud or weapon cross hairs. This would make the Caldari scout a sniper's choice because it would help the user pick off high value targets. This bonus could also couple well with active scanners and Gallente scout suits. Allies will be able to see suit labels on enemies that are being both scanned and ID'd.
-Amarr- Scout- Role: Infiltrator
Drop Uplink spamming is becoming troublesome. What could help is making it more taxing on a suit's CPU and Grid to fit one. That would give this suit a very desirable role indeed. Should CCP tweak the uplinks, the Amarr scout suit could receive a bonus that reduces CPU and Grid usage, making it cost less for every skill level. It's role would be to make little base camps behind enemy lines. Like the minmatar suit, it will have a tac-net beacon. This one broadcasts a drop uplink icon over the user when an uplink is set.
What do you think?
My HAV Balancing Idea
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Meee One
Clones Of The Damned Zero-Day
29
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Posted - 2013.12.21 06:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 I like it.
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
847
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Posted - 2013.12.21 09:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
The idea that different Scout Dropsuits should have completely different roles based on race is...
Racist! You're racist! You're all racist!
Also it's bad for balance.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage looks nicer.
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Brass Stalker
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2013.12.21 11:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
scouts def need a gimmick. movement booster, stereoscopic vision etc.
way i see it: people who first spec into scout dont use vehicles. give them a reason. |
abarkrishna
WarRavens
218
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Posted - 2013.12.21 11:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
All of this can effectively be done by a well formed squad and mics.
They will have a gimmick its called the cloak.
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
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Brass Stalker
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2013.12.21 14:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
What cloak? |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
740
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Posted - 2013.12.21 15:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
While cloak WILL become a thing, and there should be a completely different role based on it (The "Infiltrator" should have a built-in Cloak Module, just like the L-LAV had a built-in Remote Shield Booster/Armor Repairer*), I like these ideas. It could help you communicate with your team, or at least give them security. My only things:
-All scouts should have the ability to see through walls for a couple seconds. It'd be like, limited thermal vision, sort of. I'm pretty sure that Down on the D-Pad is unused.
-Scout's noise is dampened. Jumping off a tiny ledge shouldn't give us away.
-Fall damage should be lessened in a scout suit. Seriously.
*Not your Amarrian Infiltrator. Like, an actual role. Like Pilot, Scout, Basic, etc.
~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
850
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Posted - 2013.12.21 15:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:-Scout's noise is dampened. Jumping off a tiny ledge shouldn't give us away. Haha, yes. I was sniping on a platform when I heard metallic clacking noises to my right.
I turned around, got out my rail rifle, and shot that damned scout to pieces.
No one sneaks up on me.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage looks nicer.
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501st Headstrong
Dead Man's Game
88
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Posted - 2013.12.21 18:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Good Scout ideas. +1
You are nothing to me, just as I am nothing in a world of Dust
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
5969
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Posted - 2013.12.21 18:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
I like the idea of various racial scouts serving different scout niches. Gives an incentive to cross train.
Also, I posted an idea earlier about cloaking equipment and how it should be implemented to help compliment the scout.
Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638467#post1638467
Maken Tosch wrote:mollerz wrote:That would be good. I liked your bringing up the covert ops cloak especially. If they develop this so you have to hold a scanner like device while running around cloaked it will be an instant loser. It is a shame they, once again, forged on with a dead in the water design. One more thing I won't use meant for scouts Just like when scanners came out.. oops! Can't fit them due to no CPU. Regardless, I hope they overhaul everything much better for infantry than they did for vehicles. Actually, I like the idea of the cloak being something you can hold in your hand while running cloaked but then that will depend on how it's implemented. Do I have to keep it in my hand in order for the cloak to remain active or can I just swap to a weapon and keep the cloak active so long as I don't do any attacks such detonating REs or stabbing with the nova knives? I would very much prefer the latter if it's possible. But yeah, here are my proposed stats for the cloak: Standard Cloak (can fit on all suit classes and tiers) CPU: 350 PG: 80 Cooldown Upon Deactivation: 30 Seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 4 (moderate-high shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 2 (high shimmer) Bonuses when fitted on Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage and a +3 Cloak Stability Rating for moving and sprinting. Covert Ops Cloak (can only be fitted on specialty Covert Ops Scout or Prototype Scout) CPU: 350 PG: 80 Cooldown: 15 seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 10 (no shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 8 (very low shimmer) Bonus when fitted on Prototype Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage Bonus when fitted on Covert Ops Specialty Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage with -25% reduction to cooldown timer Skill Prerequisite for Standard Cloak:Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 1 ( -5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Skill Prerequisites for Covert Ops Cloak:Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 5 ( -5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Cloaking Equipment Proficiency Skill Book Level 1 ( -3% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) What do you guys think? EDIT: I forgot to mention that in order to train into the Covert Ops scout, you should have to train up at least one of the racial scouts up to prototype level first as a prerequisite.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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501st Headstrong
Dead Man's Game
88
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Posted - 2013.12.21 18:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Already have been. We aren't getting charge while Sprinting. Deal with it. Just drop kill from the tops of buildings like I do
You are nothing to me, just as I am nothing in a world of Dust
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Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
747
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Posted - 2013.12.21 18:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why are you replying to his signature every time you see it? :P
~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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mollerz
Minja Scouts
1414
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Posted - 2013.12.21 19:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Already have been. We aren't getting charge while Sprinting. Deal with it. Just drop kill from the tops of buildings like I do
hahaha.. vids or it doesn't happen.
#shittycoding
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mollerz
Minja Scouts
1414
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Posted - 2013.12.21 19:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
For better scouting ideas and roles, how we fight, and to learn about how scouting exists in dust I recommend you read up here.
Sit down and get comfortable. It's quite the read.
Then play a scout with the intent of the "roles" you outlined here. You can pretty much accomplish it already with the two racial scouts. Then come back and you'll see why none of this works out too well.
I'll admit I stopped reading after your minja suggestion. It became clear it was a waste of time.
Thanks for trying, though.
#shittycoding
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501st Headstrong
Dead Man's Game
94
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Posted - 2013.12.21 19:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
I have played in a Militia Scout and get many kills with my ZN-28 Nova Knives. I prefer Assault though, but anyway I'd love to give you a video. Care to send me 300 dollars so I can buy the External Video Capture Equipment?
Mando and proud
Minmatar Commando, join the Commando Squad Chat today!
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&
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J0LLY R0G3R
Tickle My Null-Sac
254
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Posted - 2013.12.21 22:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'd rather my bonus benefit me more so than you. XD I've got a mic, if I want to tell you where the enemy is, I will.
XD Indeed, chase me friend XD
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1320
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Posted - 2013.12.21 22:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
I hate how the Amarr scout gets tied up with the uplink all the time its just lame in my opinion.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
759
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Posted - 2013.12.21 23:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
I personally think the Amarr scout should be more associated with SCRs. They're better on a Scout then they are on an Assault anyways. >:|
~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
867
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Posted - 2013.12.21 23:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
I basically think there should be four Light Dropsuits at the least.
Raider Dropsuit, for running and gunning. Gets a bonus to rate of fire and regeneration. Scout Dropsuit, for reconnaissance. Gets a bonus to cloaks and scanners. Marksman Dropsuit, for long-range shooting. Gets a bonus to scope zoom and optimal weapon range. Pilot Dropsuit, for vehicle support. Gets a bonus to vehicle stats.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage looks nicer.
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division Top Men.
388
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Posted - 2013.12.21 23:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Or, copy paste one of the best things from EVE, you get multiple ships for one skill.
For example: minmatar light frame unlocks a scout based frame, with a per level bonus tied to scouting. Then you have your assassin, with a bonus to dampening and assassination type weaponry.
Minmatar medium frame would unlock your frontline damage dealer, then another based on more speed, and another with a focus on logi-ing.
Grabbing the specific racial specialties would give multiple bonuses, something better than the current 'scout' setup.
What we need specifically for scouts though would be a bonus to all scanning-related things, along with bonuses towards at least 1 weapon.
Ex: scout m-1 gains 5% per level to scan profile, a 5% bonus per level to knives, and 5% per level to biotics. The scout m-2 would gain 5% to scanning properties, a 5% bonus to using scanners, a role bonus that shares to team his passive scans, and a bonus to the race's tactical rifle(plasma cannon?, combat rifle(or a future flaylock-rifle?) scrambler rifle, and rail rifle)
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
I have a God, His name is Dakka.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
5987
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Posted - 2013.12.22 01:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:I basically think there should be four Light Dropsuits at the least.
Raider Dropsuit, for running and gunning. Gets a bonus to rate of fire and regeneration. Scout Dropsuit, for reconnaissance. Gets a bonus to cloaks and scanners. Marksman Dropsuit, for long-range shooting. Gets a bonus to scope zoom and optimal weapon range. Pilot Dropsuit, for vehicle support. Gets a bonus to vehicle stats.
You're forgetting stabbers like me who run around with just a knife.
Assassin scout suit - insert bonus here
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Cass Caul
594
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Posted - 2013.12.22 02:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
mollerz wrote:For better scouting ideas and roles, how we fight, and to learn about how scouting exists in dust I recommend you read up here. Sit down and get comfortable. It's quite the read.Then play a scout with the intent of the "roles" you outlined here. You can pretty much accomplish it already with the two racial scouts. Then come back and you'll see why none of this works out too well. I'll admit I stopped reading after your Minmatar Scout suggestion. It became clear it was a waste of time.Thanks for trying, though.
This, entirely. If you haven't dedicated yourself to playing a role intensively, just look at all those names that aren't crossed out and you'll find the people that have, you really don't have a leg to stand on when proposing how to "improve" a suit or role.
280 pages of dedicated scouts talking about the woes, glories, and testaments to our dedication to the role. How many of you have gotten 30+ kills in 80 clone ambush using a Scout suit? Appia Vibbia has, DJINN Marauder has, pretty sure Lightning xVx had Roner General has.
Take a look at the opinions of people that invested all of their SP into the role before they branched out into other weapons and other suits. Then look at what those people that haven't accumulated enough SP for their first proto suit, how they feel gimped.
We have a name for the people who've jumped into a battle once or twice, had moderate success or drastic failures using our specialty: Tourists Spend an entire patch running just Scout suits, no dragonfly scout suits either, but actual SP invested scouts.
+ÉߦëddGêÇ -çou -Äll+É-çoGö¦
A girl, on the internet?! I roll to disbelieve.
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Cass Caul
594
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Posted - 2013.12.22 02:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Chosokabe Ite wrote:Since CCP is going to give the Scout suits a look over, I figure I'd toss up my ideas. I think there's a way for each suit to relay some sort of useful/helpful info that justifies it's "Scout" label. We need to give each scout a role that will make them not only desirable but in some cases needed for victory. Come play PC, buddy. Top level corps depend on 1-4 scouts to win. Scout are deadly, even while gimped.
Quote: -Minmatar Scout- Role: Assassin
When it comes to it's role and bonus, there's isn't anything that needs to be changed. So why am I bringing it up? Because I think it can be used more tactically(if that's the right word to use) by adding one thing, a kill beacon. The suit should broadcast every kill to it's allies through the Tac-net. A small, downward pointing dagger icon will flash above every killed enemy for a couple seconds (doesn't matter what weapon is used to kill, same icon will appear.). What that dagger tells you depends on when you see it and where. It could tell you a pesky sniper's been taken care of, or that nobody is manning that hostile turret anymore, or just let you know you got someone behind the lines making a nuisance of himself and distracting enemies. Put teamwork into it and that beacon can tell you a lot more.
How utterly useless. You want tactics? Get a mic. There is nothing useful hear that a team or squad using voice communication wouldn't already know.
Quote: -Gallente Scout- Role: Locator
This suit should be a walking active scanner, every enemy it senses should be seen by allies. That would better compliment it's skill bonus. If it already does that then cool, no changes needed.
Definitely not. Blue berries and even green berries rush in for a kill. If you're using the Gallente Scout's role bonus to its fullest than having that information given to everyone will invalidate your stealth and disrupt flanking tactics.
Quote: -Caldari Scout- Role: Identifier
What could make this scout useful is the ability to tell you what you're facing. This scout could ID enemy suit/vehicle types, it's label appearing over the enemy, just above the "enemy unit" icon. For standard frames, the label "Light", "Medium", or "Heavy" will appear. For specialized suits, it'll show "Assault", "Commando", "Logistics", ect (same logic for vehicles). Depending on your Caldari Scout skill, you can ID more than one suit to a max of 5; The 5 closest to the center of your hud or weapon cross hairs. This would make the Caldari scout a sniper's choice because it would help the user pick off high value targets. This bonus could also couple well with active scanners and Gallente scout suits. Allies will be able to see suit labels on enemies that are being both scanned and ID'd.
Are you even playing the same game as the rest of us? each race is visually distinct while each role is color-coded. BTW, ADS will also give you this information along with the numerical values of shield and armor HP. Visual queues and mics make your suggestion pointless.
Quote: -Amarr- Scout- Role: Infiltrator
Drop Uplink spamming is becoming troublesome. What could help is making it more taxing on a suit's CPU and Grid to fit one. That would give this suit a very desirable role indeed. Should CCP tweak the uplinks, the Amarr scout suit could receive a bonus that reduces CPU and Grid usage, making it cost less for every skill level. It's role would be to make little base camps behind enemy lines. Like the minmatar suit, it will have a tac-net beacon. This one broadcasts a drop uplink icon over the user when an uplink is set.
Um, what? That would be the absolute worst role bonus. Have you seen the Gallente Scout's role bonus? It gives a bonus to passive scanning, which leads to flanking. The Minmatar Scout's bonus is even more direct: a straight bonus to melee and Nova Knife damage. This would littereally be the most worthless bonus ever given to a single role. Even with the horrendous hit-detection problems that nova knives face, thier bonus would still be better than a reduction in fitting costs for a suit hat only has a single equipment slot, let alone limiting it to a single type of equipment. - don't even bother saying that Amarr Scouts should get a second equipment slot to fit your pre-formed paradigm.
What do you think?
I'd give this a 3/10 You made an effort, it just wasn't a good one. And, hey, you got a better rating that DUST 514 did.
+ÉߦëddGêÇ -çou -Äll+É-çoGö¦
A girl, on the internet?! I roll to disbelieve.
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