DUST Search - [Suggestion] Weapon Rigging

Ulysses Knapse wrote:

Roger Cordill wrote:

Ulysses Knapse wrote:

Roger Cordill wrote:

There's no tech 3 weapons

Not yet, at least.

Roger Cordill wrote:

and why limit officer, tech 2, and faction stuff when you could just change the rig cal cost?

Because Tech III is awesome. If you gave that versatility to just anything, it wouldn't be as awesome.
Also, some Tech III rigs would have Officer versions.

message from Godin: Honestltly, tech 3 weapons would break any and all balance. HAving a rig that's tech 3 makes sense anyways. Tech 3 items are only hulls in EVE, and we custom make them to our needs. So why would we mess with something so tiny.? Officer tech 3 anything flat out makes no sense, so no. Also, just because something is stronger, doesn't mean you should limit it. Just make it very hard to fit it (like tech 2 rigs are in EVE). Honestly, there should be just tech 1, tech 2, and faction. Tech 1 is the base, tech 2 is a variant that is stronger one way, weaker in another, but is harder to fit. Keeps it simple so we wouldn't have to worry about another layer layer of broken ****.

I disagree! If implemented properly, it could work just fine.

Do you have any arguments as to why Tech III is overpowered, besides that "it's Tech III"?

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Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 811	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:26:00 - [1] - Quote One of Dust 514's biggest strengths against other FPS titles is the massive amount of customization. But why stop with just dropsuit fitting? Weapon customization is a highly requested addition, and would greatly improve Dust 514's customizability. I have come up with my own method for weapon customization, which I call weapon rigging. The Art of Rigging To begin rigging, simply select the weapon you wish to rig in the dropsuit fitting menu, then select "Rigging". This will open up the Weapon Rigging UI. In the top left corner is the weapon's calibration, both used and total. In the center is the weapon. The rigging slots are highlighted. Select a rigging slot and you'll be given some options. If the slot is empty, you'll be given the option to add a new rig. If the slot isn't empty, you'll be given the option to either replace or remove the rig. Once you're satisfied, simply exit the Weapon Rigging UI and you'll be returned to the Dropsuit Fitting UI. Note: the weapon rigs must be purchased separately. Calibration The resource governing weapon rigging. All weapon rigs have a set amount of calibration that they use, and all weapons have a set amount of calibration they can provide. This is to prevent people from drastically changing their weapon into something that can hardly be recognized. Rigging Slots All weapons have a set number of rigging slots, each capable of handling different types of rigs. Only one rig can fit into any one rigging slot. For example, you can't fit two types of ammo or two different scopes in the same weapon, for obvious reasons. Defaults Certain rigging slots already have something fitted into them by default. The Assault Rifle, for example, has Lead Charges in the ammo slot and iron sights in the scope slot. These defaults cannot be removed, only replaced, and usually don't use any calibration. Tech I Weapon Rigs Can be attached to all suitable weapons of any tech level. The standard-issue, it modifies the weapon moderately, providing improved stats in one area for reduced stats in another. An example would be an ammo type that moderately increases range and slightly decreases damage. Tech II Weapon Rigs Can be attached to Tech II and Tech III weapons only. Highly specialized, it modifies the weapon intensively, focusing its use into one particular area. An example would be an ammo type that greatly increases range, but also greatly increases heat production. Tech III Weapon Rigs Can be attached to Tech III weapons only. They add new functionality to the weapon, allowing it to become more versatile or giving it a role it wouldn't usually have. An example would be an underslung shotgun, grenade launcher, or target painting scope. Faction Weapon Rigs Can be attached to the appropriate faction weapons only. These are improved versions of Tech I weapon rigs, though depending on their faction they oftentimes lean towards a specific area of play. An example would be a hybrid charge developed by the Caldari State that had improved range and kinetic damage. Officer Weapon Rigs In a word, ridiculous. Can be attached to Officer weapons only. These are already existing rigs that have been heavily modified, giving them enhanced qualities fitting of an Officer weapon. Naming Since the weapon rigs are items themselves, they'll need their own name. Fear not, I have arrived with a naming system that should work for anything. It is as followed: (Faction)/(Weapon Size) (Rig Type) So if I had all ACOG Sight variants, some possible names would be: M-Si ACOG Sight (Minmatar Sidearm) G-Li ACOG Sight (Gallente Light Weapon) A-He ACOG Sight (Amarr Heavy Weapon) Tech II Rigs would add "II" as a suffix if a Tech I version existed. (G-Li ACOG Sight II) Tech III Rigs are generally unique, so they wouldn't add a suffix or prefix at all. Faction Rigs would add the faction prefix. (Imperial A-Li ACOG Sight) Officer Rigs would add the name of the original owner as a prefix. (Thale's C-Li ACOG Sight) Implementation This system could be implemented gradually. At first, perhaps only ammo or sights is modifiable. Then as time goes on more rigging slots and more weapon rigs could be added. Personally, I think this is the best way to go, but any method if implementation should work. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 292	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:42:00 - [2] - Quote message from Godin: There's no tech 3 weapons, and why limit officer, tech 2, and faction stuff when you could just change the rig cal cost? EDIT: This has been asked for before, with the exact same name. I assume you saw that, and changed it a little?
501st Headstrong Dead Man's Game 81	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:43:00 - [3] - Quote Wow...this is an amazing implementation. Dev plz!!!!! Eat my Dust, just as I play the incomplete game...
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 812	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:46:00 - [4] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: There's no tech 3 weapons Not yet, at least. Roger Cordill wrote: and why limit officer, tech 2, and faction stuff when you could just change the rig cal cost? Because Tech III is awesome. If you gave that versatility to just anything, it wouldn't be as awesome. Also, some Tech III rigs would have Officer versions. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 292	Posted - 2013.12.20 02:57:00 - [5] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: There's no tech 3 weapons Not yet, at least. Roger Cordill wrote: and why limit officer, tech 2, and faction stuff when you could just change the rig cal cost? Because Tech III is awesome. If you gave that versatility to just anything, it wouldn't be as awesome. Also, some Tech III rigs would have Officer versions. message from Godin: Honestltly, tech 3 weapons would break any and all balance. HAving a rig that's tech 3 makes sense anyways. Tech 3 items are only hulls in EVE, and we custom make them to our needs. So why would we mess with something so tiny.? Officer tech 3 anything flat out makes no sense, so no. Also, just because something is stronger, doesn't mean you should limit it. Just make it very hard to fit it (like tech 2 rigs are in EVE). Honestly, there should be just tech 1, tech 2, and faction. Tech 1 is the base, tech 2 is a variant that is stronger one way, weaker in another, but is harder to fit. Keeps it simple so we wouldn't have to worry about another layer layer of broken ****.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 814	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:01:00 - [6] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: There's no tech 3 weapons Not yet, at least. Roger Cordill wrote: and why limit officer, tech 2, and faction stuff when you could just change the rig cal cost? Because Tech III is awesome. If you gave that versatility to just anything, it wouldn't be as awesome. Also, some Tech III rigs would have Officer versions. message from Godin: Honestltly, tech 3 weapons would break any and all balance. HAving a rig that's tech 3 makes sense anyways. Tech 3 items are only hulls in EVE, and we custom make them to our needs. So why would we mess with something so tiny.? Officer tech 3 anything flat out makes no sense, so no. Also, just because something is stronger, doesn't mean you should limit it. Just make it very hard to fit it (like tech 2 rigs are in EVE). Honestly, there should be just tech 1, tech 2, and faction. Tech 1 is the base, tech 2 is a variant that is stronger one way, weaker in another, but is harder to fit. Keeps it simple so we wouldn't have to worry about another layer layer of broken ***. I disagree! If implemented properly, it could work just fine. Do you have any arguments as to why Tech III is overpowered, besides that "it's Tech III"? What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?* The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 292	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:08:00 - [7] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: There's no tech 3 weapons Not yet, at least. Roger Cordill wrote: and why limit officer, tech 2, and faction stuff when you could just change the rig cal cost? Because Tech III is awesome. If you gave that versatility to just anything, it wouldn't be as awesome. Also, some Tech III rigs would have Officer versions. message from Godin: Honestltly, tech 3 weapons would break any and all balance. HAving a rig that's tech 3 makes sense anyways. Tech 3 items are only hulls in EVE, and we custom make them to our needs. So why would we mess with something so tiny.? Officer tech 3 anything flat out makes no sense, so no. Also, just because something is stronger, doesn't mean you should limit it. Just make it very hard to fit it (like tech 2 rigs are in EVE). Honestly, there should be just tech 1, tech 2, and faction. Tech 1 is the base, tech 2 is a variant that is stronger one way, weaker in another, but is harder to fit. Keeps it simple so we wouldn't have to worry about another layer layer of broken ****. I disagree! If implemented properly, it could work just fine. Do you have any arguments as to why Tech III is overpowered, besides that "it's Tech III"? Message from Godin: Due to the nature of tech 3, you could make it a completly different weapon than intended, breaking the weapon. Hulls and frames I'm down Just no weapons. Rigs still don't make sense for tech 3.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 815	Posted - 2013.12.20 03:20:00 - [8] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Do you have any arguments as to why Tech III is overpowered, besides that "it's Tech III"? Due to the nature of tech 3, you could make it a completly different weapon than intended, breaking the weapon. I said besides "it's Tech III"... Also, I don't get how that's possible. Tech III rigs wouldn't usually affect the base functionality, they would instead give the weapon new functionality to make it more versatile. For example: Bayonet. Wouldn't change the weapon's base functionality, it would simply improve melee damage. Underslung Grenade Launcher. Doesn't alter your weapon's base functionality. Instead, it alters your GRENADE functionality. Instead of throwing grenades, you would launch them. It wouldn't attach a Mass Driver to your weapon. Underslung Shotgun. Wouldn't be nearly as effective as a standalone shotgun, it would just improve your close-range capability in case you get caught in a jam. Integrated Scanner. Would function as a low-powered active scanner. Like the underslung shotgun, it wouldn't be nearly as effective as the standalone version, it would just make you more versatile, not specialized. Also, it wouldn't change your base functionality. Target Painting Scope. Would let you paint targets for short periods of time by aiming at them. Because, admit it, this would be awesome. Wouldn't change your weapon's base functionality. TL;DR: Doesn't alter base weapon functionality, just makes you more versatile. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 914	Posted - 2013.12.29 06:01:00 - [9] - Quote Bump. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Veka Kari NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 21	Posted - 2013.12.29 06:28:00 - [10] - Quote Rigs should really just modify the functionality of the weapon instead of the weapons performance. Thus limiting the rig types to Scopes, slings, attachments and things of the like. Also, I do happen to agree with T3 is a hull idea. The concept for T3 is the ability to build from the ground up with nothing more than the hull and adding all its functionality in itself. In a sense you are already introducing the T3 Concept to weapons. Your explanations make perfect sense however I am not sure the game is ready for anything more advanced than changing the scope, adding a sling and maybe adding a grenade launcher. MUST READ (All Suits): The Logi Code. You depend on it.

Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 917	Posted - 2013.12.29 06:34:00 - [11] - Quote Veka Kari wrote: Rigs should really just modify the functionality of the weapon instead of the weapons performance. Thus limiting the rig types to Scopes, slings, attachments and things of the like. I must disagree. So long as everything that affects the weapon's base performance has relatively equal advantages and disadvantages, it should be fine. An example would be a rig that increased the weapon's range, but reduced the damage or increased the heat production. A simple, balanced change, but still a meaningful one. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Veka Kari NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 21	Posted - 2013.12.29 06:55:00 - [12] - Quote I understand where you are going with this Ulysses, however I must disagree still with your thoughts here. If you give the players (currently, the future I would say your ideas are great, but we do have to think in the here and now) too much ability to modify their damage, reduce their heat, or increase their range, you will quite literally throw off the data collection that CCP is so desperately trying to do. Please keep in mind that DUST 514 is still in Beta, and is not a "complete" game as of yet. And after reading most, maybe all, of your posts it seems like you are trying to make direct correlations from EVE to DUST. With this, I strongly agree that DUST should function similarly (with some parity) to how EVE currently does, but that time is not now, and I say this because this is the first shooter CCP has developed and they need time to make mistakes before we get to the really good stuff such as what you are suggesting. MUST READ (All Suits): The Logi Code. You depend on it.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1094	Posted - 2014.01.21 14:26:00 - [13] - Quote Tap. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.


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