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Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1276	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:30:00 - [1] - Quote In my view, its less about the lack of damage we do? Though some extra would be nice! The main things I find to be the problems. 1) Hardners(The use of more than 1) Cycling hardners is a problem, the whole idea of this 'waves of opportunity' is tanks have a limited window where they are strong enough to consider breaching enemy lines (notice I didn't say invincible), but the ability to cycle hardners to be almost always hardened unbalances this! Soultion - Stacking Penalty for each additional hardner +40% 2) AV capability(lack of equipment) At the moment there are 4 types of AV, Forge, SL, PLC, Grenade. Now these are all well and good, but they only deal damage, we need av guns and equipment that do other things, slow down tank speed, apply heat to the guns that kinda thing! Soultion - Temporal Grenades, Wide-Beam lasers, webifiers, emp grenades! 3) Vehicle - Infantry Interplay As it stands there are very few modules that can be used to the benifit of BOTH tank and infantry, things like smoke grenades, emp bursts stuff that will benifit infantry who run with a tank, to make killing of enemy AV easier. Soultion - More active modules, smoke grenades, emp bursts, shield walls, that kinda thing! My opinion anyway! Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1277	Posted - 2013.12.19 23:22:00 - [2] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: lets ask a few questions./ Lets go! what do you think is going to happen to the price of STD tanks if MLT goes up? ITs going to increase too off course,but it aint goig to be that bad since price will match tank's effectiveness... How will nerfing MLT tanks help the fact that AV can't effectively counter tanks? In good theory: Tank prices go up again, tankers (specially tourists like myself) Wont use more than 1 tank per match since the main reason to Abuse tanks,specially MLT ones, is taht they are cheaper than the Proto fits to COUNTER them.Belive me, if my Sica cost 300k i will still prefer using my 185k AV fit,even if its NOt as effective... what are these crusaders going to shoot at when there are no MLT tanks? AV is a SUPPORT role. AV specialist live a double life: AV when vehicles are present, AI when there are no vehicles present. No tanks in the battlefield is NOT a problem. 7 tanks at the same time are... if it takes 3 AV to deal with a tank and there are 3tanks, how many are left to fight the other 13 guys on the ground? 7. The real question is : how much are there left to fight infantry and take objectives IF,the enemy deploys 6+ tanks. NONE. Do people honestly believe the smoke screen these skilled tankers are putting up? I sadly do not understand the question. Be honest here because I play both sides. How many rail tanks does it take to stop vehicles from coming in? 2 If you don't have a skilled tanker how will you deal with another skilled tanker? Jihad LAV + Luck Still having to kill yourself for a CHANCE to take down another player in a 1 v 1 battle is not balanced... GÖªBuffing AV is a solution GÖªLimiting tanks to 2 per team is a solution GÖªIncreasing tank prices are a solution. Of course tankers dont want any of these.... They want to keep it as it is. and as it is its not working. Yes they are Soultions, but not very elegant. Gùå Buffing AV requires a buff to LAV and dropships as well (not saying im against a buff on AV, but consider the consequences) GùåLimiting Tanks to 2 creates a rush to get your tank in first, what happens to full time tankers? Just like infantry shouldn't be forced to do anything, why should a tanker with 95% of his SP in tanks be FORCED to run infantry? There is more if you wish to discuss this point in detail. GùåWhy increase tank prices, prehaps a little sure, but tanks are meant to be viable just as much as dropsuits, they SHOULD be dying relatively often, if you make tanks too expensive they become a luxury onlynafforded by mega corps, then they end up more OP, because CCP wants people too use them. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1277	Posted - 2013.12.19 23:25:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Slag Emberforge wrote: The solution seems self-evident, tanks are certainly OP and militia tanks provide too much bang for the buck. MLT tanks: Increase price OR Decrease available CPU/PG or health to bring it in line with cost AV v HAVE combat balance Swarms: Increase swarm distance to 250m Return back 10% of damage Forge Guns: Repeal charge time increase OR. Return previous alpha damage Grenades: I think these are ok for their purpose - a quick way to Blitz out some damage the forge gun is balanced now so no, it stil hurts through hardeners No it doesnt, you aint kidding no one.... Forges do need to do less damage than Rail Turrets though and have less AoE, lets just get that straight before we talk about anything else. It's only physics....I think. Bigger shell mass accelerated= more damage to whatever its being fired at. Umm would like to point out they fire the same size slug from what I can tell, most of the gubins in a rail turret won't necessarily effect the damage. So the only factor is speed, so not that much more damage, just sayin. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1277	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:32:00 - [4] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Yes they are Soultions, but not very elegant. Gùå Buffing AV requires a buff to LAV and dropships as well (not saying im against a buff on AV, but consider the consequences) GùåLimiting Tanks to 2 creates a rush to get your tank in first, what happens to full time tankers? Just like infantry shouldn't be forced to do anything, why should a tanker with 95% of his SP in tanks be FORCED to run infantry? There is more if you wish to discuss this point in detail. GùåWhy increase tank prices, prehaps a little sure, but tanks are meant to be viable just as much as dropsuits, they SHOULD be dying relatively often, if you make tanks too expensive they become a luxury onlynafforded by mega corps, then they end up more OP, because CCP wants people too use them. Elegance is NOT of my concern. Effectiveness and balance are. Gùå Buffing AV requires a buff to LAV and dropships as well (not saying im against a buff on AV, but consider the consequences) Not quite Monkey. Check my reasoning out please: GÖª Forge guns need NO buff. They are working as intended/ LAV & DS are equally damaged as it is GÖª Swarms need a RANGE buff. / This affects both but with the SAME damage output they can take it. GÖª AV Grenades need a 30% damage buff,at least / This does not affect Dropships not tanks a lot,mostly LAV's GÖª PC need a buff, maybe reload speed or damage / DS are unaffected , immobile LAV's are affected but thats it So with this buffs the DS gets hit hard by 1 more thing, the LAV by 1 more thing, but still: DS only have 2 Infantry counter (FG & Swarms) and LAV while moving have little counters.So why buff for example Dropships if AS THEY are they only get countered by Forge guns? GùåLimiting Tanks to 2 creates a rush to get your tank in first, what happens to full time tankers? Just like infantry shouldn't be forced to do anything, why should a tanker with 95% of his SP in tanks be FORCED to run infantry? There is more if you wish to discuss this point in detail. I explained this in details in my POST regarding these limitations. please refer to my signature on it and we can discuss it. GùåWhy increase tank prices, prehaps a little sure, but tanks are meant to be viable just as much as dropsuits, they SHOULD be dying relatively often, if you make tanks too expensive they become a luxury only afforded by mega corps, then they end up more OP, because CCP wants people too use them. Im not saying increase the price to 5 million each, But as it is an ADV dropsuit costs 50-80k and a MLT tank,while being more than TWICE as effective (with higher EHP, higher speed,higher firepower and the only CON being they cant cap points) cost 65k.a WELL FITTED PROTO AV fitting costs over 150k ISK each and tehy cant even effectively kill 1 MLT tank that cost less than half. If someone CANT see whats wrong with this then i cant help. @ True Adamance: What up bro? Listen, THe forge gun needs its current Range and Firepower.As it is my sica can withstand firepower from 2+ PROTO FORGEGUNNERS simultaneously ...and we are talking about a MLT vehicle. If you nerf them more how much more will be needed to take them out!? Want something that makes sense? Increase Firepower on rail Turrets while taking away their splash damage and reducing their Aim assist.There. Gùå Bufs are reasonable, those are the kinda buffs I wanted Gùå Ill see you there Gùå My mlt sica is 90k it doesn't nneed to be much more 110k max I would say. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

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