...several fully kitted out Madrugars and Gunnlogis on the enemy side of every other battle I join. I found tanking before to often be frustrating, but at least I could drop the tank and put my boots on the ground when things got frustrating. Now, you need to run HAVs 24/7 if you can just to halt the enemy HAVs, at least at the time of day I play.

HAVs popping HAVs doesn't even work when there's 5 enemy HAVs on the enemy side of every other match. When you saw 6 names from one big corp or a qynch in the feed before, you knew things would be tough. Now, when you see that, you know they'll be deploying their whole quota in HAVs against your one HAV, one squaddies HAV and 14 assorted berries.

Every match depends almost solely on how many HAVs, with what guns and what modules, are deployed at the start, and if you're willing to throw ISK at the screen replacing them. HAVs are the main attraction and infantry are a sideshow, except when in installations that usually get 3HKO'd by a rail tank or forge gun anyway. Once one side wins the tank wars at the beginning of the match, they keep it that way. Good luck deploying one HAV without it getting popped on deployment by a 2-3HKO amped particle accelerator 350m away, let alone 5 to match the enemy's force.

This is Tank 514 and it is far worse than AR 514 ever was. I used to like tanking, now I see several HAVs on every battlefield all soaking up AV like sponges, running in packs, cheap as dirt and I want to puke. I don't want a GêP.0 K/D against infantry. I want a balanced game that is more complex than deploying more/better HAVs than the opponent. When you know the outcome of the battle with 95% accuracy 60 seconds in by the map, there's a problem.

I swear, playing pubs not in a tank squad is like pulling teeth most of the time.

*reads title* no...

...several fully kitted out Madrugars and Gunnlogis on the enemy side of every other battle I join. I found tanking before to often be frustrating, but at least I could drop the tank and put my boots on the ground when things got frustrating. Now, you need to run HAVs 24/7 if you can just to halt the enemy HAVs, at least at the time of day I play.

HAVs popping HAVs doesn't even work when there's 5 enemy HAVs on the enemy side of every other match. When you saw 6 names from one big corp or a qynch in the feed before, you knew things would be tough. Now, when you see that, you know they'll be deploying their whole quota in HAVs against your one HAV, one squaddies HAV and 14 assorted berries.

Every match depends almost solely on how many HAVs, with what guns and what modules, are deployed at the start, and if you're willing to throw ISK at the screen replacing them. HAVs are the main attraction and infantry are a sideshow, except when in installations that usually get 3HKO'd by a rail tank or forge gun anyway. Once one side wins the tank wars at the beginning of the match, they keep it that way. Good luck deploying one HAV without it getting popped on deployment by a 2-3HKO amped particle accelerator 350m away, let alone 5 to match the enemy's force.

This is Tank 514 and it is far worse than AR 514 ever was. I used to like tanking, now I see several HAVs on every battlefield all soaking up AV like sponges, running in packs, cheap as dirt and I want to puke. I don't want a GêP.0 K/D against infantry. I want a balanced game that is more complex than deploying more/better HAVs than the opponent. When you know the outcome of the battle with 95% accuracy 60 seconds in by the map, there's a problem.

I swear, playing pubs not in a tank squad is like pulling teeth most of the time.

when i run ground as assult, i just aavoid all the enemy tanks, its works better then you think if your used to using your own team as bait :P

if a tank kills me, that guy holding an AR would of as well. i dont really mind dieing to it because they are huge and loud and i should of saw the damn thing coming

I would rarther have no infantry than several fully kitted out protobears on the enemy side of every other battle I join

Oh wait that was happening for months and the only way you could counter was in your own protobear gear or just go BPO anyways, i bet you didnt complain about that when you protostomped

I would rarther have no infantry than several fully kitted out protobears on the enemy side of every other battle I join

Oh wait that was happening for months and the only way you could counter was in your own protobear gear or just go BPO anyways, i bet you didnt complain about that when you protostomped

I didn't like protostomping.

Also, there's a difference between a 69k iron wall that takes 0 SP and is impossible to go ISK negative in and a suit that gives you some extra HP and damage with a large SP and ISK investment. It's protostomping on a much more deadly, gamebreaking scale. I run mostly STD and ADV gear and, guess what, I actually kill protos! Wow, amazing, I actually had a 2.0+ K/D 90% of matches in standard gear before 1.7! Tankstomping is protostomping times a thousand. You can kill a proto in seconds with a militia assault rifle and multiple protos with a grenade. A full squad of prototypes is problematic, but they are far more killable than a full squad of tanks.

I didn't like protostomping.

Also, there's a difference between a 69k iron wall that takes 0 SP and is impossible to go ISK negative in and a suit that gives you some extra HP and damage with a large SP and ISK investment. It's protostomping on a much more deadly, gamebreaking scale. I run mostly STD and ADV gear and, guess what, I actually kill protos! Wow, amazing, I actually had a 2.0+ K/D 90% of matches in standard gear before 1.7! Tankstomping is protostomping times a thousand. You can kill a proto in seconds with a militia assault rifle and multiple protos with a grenade. A full squad of prototypes is problematic, but they are far more killable than a full squad of tanks.

I don't mind avoiding 1. When there's 5 guarding the only Domination point? Also, can't escape something that moves 1000 KM/H with a +30% Nitrous Injector that kills you in 4 bullets from up to 175m away with a Blaster. I should know when I clone over 50% of the enemy clones most of the time the enemy fails to deploy a HAV in Ambush.

A 0SP/ISK BPO suit is also impossible to go negative in and kicker is it can kill protosuits aslong as i get the drop on them and not scanned for 100m away before hand

A gamebreaking scale? protobears redlined the enemy instantly without even trying causing mass snipers and even tanks back in the day got protostomped on, now if tanks are stomping bring out your own tank since even milita can fight back quite well

Tanks are quite easy to kill and hella easy to avoid as infantry, but like any protobear stomping squad if its an organized proto tank stomping squad you will find it hard

Protobear stomping = tank stomping

Its the same thing, except you dont like it because the shoe is on the other foot and kicking your arse

aparently not knowing that you cant escape it is the key to being able to escape it.

as i escape them all the time

Why aren't you just driving an LAV in such a target rich environment?

I'm start tanking ))) Cause this is *** - u running in proto gear, killing ppls, then they bring 6 tanks and ur team is done.

Also my militia soma is good for wallet, only 50k ISK for 18-24 kills with 0 deaths. Yea, sometimes i get killed by railgun tanks, or madrugars with proto guns, but hey )))

Adapt or die :) So spawn ur militia tanks and lets make some Tanks514

I choose "troll." It's where I drop 5 assorted non-MLT HAVs into an Ambush with multiple seats until our whole team is in tanks, deploying more as they fall. Impossible to ever lose if you deploy fast enough, it's a brilliant strategy for those willing to use blueberries as steel meatshields for a high enough price.

I guess you could've taken, "I didn't like protostomping" as, "I didn't enjoy doing it but did it anyway." No, I meant that I didn't do it and it felt unfair that there was no defense for newbs. I have tanked on and off for months, seriously in 1.6. The shoe can't be on the other foot when the roles are reversed.

Also, using poor gear to defeat high gear takes some skill and tactics. It's about HOW it gets the job done. Meanwhile, you can drop in endless militia tanks and get a much higher K/D than any protobear I've EVER known and still easily break even. Lower tier tanks can die to good AV, while higher tier tanks simply shred everything apart and only die to other tanks. Essentially, it's like having:

STD Gear < ADV Gear < PRO Gear < Even better PRO gear anyone can use < Even better better PRO gear that dedicated tankers can use.

I have a 6.5 weekly K/D. Taking out ground deaths it's probably closer to a 10.0. In matches where my team has tank superiority, I usually go something like 20/0 or 20/1. I run solo or in small squads a fair bit and do better, obviously, with good help. That's not the problem. I'm not complaining because my poor little K/D is suffering and I'm getting stomped. I'm complaining because tank "balance" is broken as all hell, making matches even more predictable than before and pointless without better tank support than the opponent. Either they have good tank support and I'm on my own against the hoarde, or the shoe is on the other foot and I'm part of the hoarde. I don't want a hoarde on either side. Save that **** for FW, maybe, but keep it out of pubs along with 2 q-synched full proto squads against 16 guys fresh from the academy.

.

Protobear can be killed by militia, militia tank can kill proper tank - I dont see how the balance is broken and your flowchart is pure lies

What your problem is with matchmaking, you said it yourself you are either with or against the horde and it was the same pre 1.7 with protobears you were against or with them, its the same problem

Except tanks are now useful, much more useful than pre 1.7, same can be said for DS but its not the end all and be all

Take skirmish, pre 1.7 protobears would win easily and stomp infantry and every letter, tanks were a nonfactor and got whacked easily enough, now 1.7 tanks can change a game, they can at least help and hold the outside points, its not infantry turf unless its in the city or a confined space

My Gunnlogi can pop 2 Somas in a 2 v 1 with hardeners up, sponging all of the damage. Missiles to unwary HAVs work and amped Railguns work until the enemy brings out better Railguns. I can run at 3 protos and drop one of them. I cannot do that with a tank because the TTKs are escalated.

Matchmaking is, indeed, the source of the most frustration. However, it's not like matchmaking could tell who's actively tanking or not, even looking at SP distributions. The problem with tanks is that tanks > infantry, so you usually need to dominate tanks to win many maps.

They do more than help. If the enemy does not bring HAVs to stop me, I can clone whole Ambush squads, set up uplinks on every point in Skirmish and completely prevent the enemy from capturing the point in Domination, provided I can cover it depending on the map. They could always change games in good hands, especially in pubs. Confined spaces aren't even infantry turd with a shield hardener or two up.

So many kids in tanks so little fuks given seriously every tank driver is **** they have to use a crutch in the game cuz there
A. KD is trash
B. Cod 13 year olds
C. CCP cant fix it
D. If ur obviosly a tanker reading this u obviously suk at the game because u provide no help whatsoever uu think udo but u dont
U cant get out to capture an objective and last of all now i made u mad LOL ;-)
MY 2 CENTS.

Gunlogi - Shield based - Rail or missiles prefered choice

Soma - Militia armor based tank - Blaster is the only thing you can put on it unless you skip on tank

Hardeners - 60% resistance to all incoming damage

60% resistance to a blaster is enough to not even halt your regen, also the soma has to be near point blank to cause enough damage to stop your regen

If you run missiles you will alpha that tank with a full auto volley

I dont see the point of your example tbh


Tanks > infantry - Its a tank with a large gun on it, generally my blaster tank is built to be anti infantry, do you expect a rail rifle to do enough damage to kill a tank?

lolambush

If the enemy do not bring a tank or AV to stop you then you should stomp, if there is no one to stop you on the enemy team will a magic rock appear to stop you? no, its upto the enemy to make a move and do something

Also last i checked my tank cant fit through a door

when i run ground as assult, i just aavoid all the enemy tanks, its works better then you think if your used to using your own team as bait :P

if a tank kills me, that guy holding an AR would of as well. i dont really mind dieing to it because they are huge and loud and i should of saw the damn thing coming

The fact that players need to pack bombs into LAVs and OHKO HAVs because there's so many presents a problem. Also, 2 guys on my squad did this today and popped 2 of 4 enemy tanks. 20 seconds later, there's 4 tanks again.

Where is the problem?

listen to the wise one. this is balance, tanks cant go inside buildings. stop going into the open like a rucking fetard

No, I do not expect Rail Rifles to kill tanks. I expect 3 guys with Swarm Launchers to kill a tank. I also expect some sort of strategy beyond "LET THEM HAVE TANKS!" and dropping 5 of them.

As for the resistance... that was my point? My Gunnlogi can easily take out 2 miltia tanks at once within my range. Aside from glass cannon Missiles and preemptive Railguns, it's hard to take out enemy tanks with militia tanks. This makes sense, but not when a decent STD HAV can be built for less than twice the price of a proto suit and spammed everywhere by anyone that's not dirt poor. It really doesn't cost that much to run with corp mates and drop good HAVs everywhere, while the blueberries only have militia HAVs to fight them with (provided they can deploy them).

Also, Blasters are anti infantry. That's why a good Madrugar can make itself immune to all militia tank fire, pop them in 5-6 seconds and generally tank through everything, including a full amped missile volley to the face provided he knows where you are/strikes first, which is kind of easy when there's 5 tanks cruising around. Gunnlogi's usually try to fit an amp which lowers their potential to tank since they use highs for shield tanking, but cycled shield hardeners might as well be immune to Blaster fire, 2 can tank any missile volley, Railguns don't work when there's 2 Railgun tanks already positioned above you, ready to pounce as soon as a sightline becomes available.

Militia tanks only kill if you strike first and/or the enemy is an idiot. They are no match for the kind of tank spam I saw today.

EDIT: As for the enemy making a move, I think 2 militia HAVs and 6 guys on AV is "making a move." It's just that their gear is not a high enough level to ever make a dent, regardless of the effort they put it. Like protostomping, but worse, since they'll be lucky to pop more than 1 or 2 enemy HAVs.

As for "lolambush," I run all modes. I've been doing Ambush to grind ISK faster since my SP cap has been hit. Skirmish and Domination were just as bad. I saw at least 3 squads tonight running 4-5 high level HAVs in all 3 modes.

A 0SP/ISK BPO suit is also impossible to go negative in and kicker is it can kill protosuits aslong as i get the drop on them and not scanned for 100m away before hand

A gamebreaking scale? protobears redlined the enemy instantly without even trying causing mass snipers and even tanks back in the day got protostomped on, now if tanks are stomping bring out your own tank since even milita can fight back quite well

Tanks are quite easy to kill and hella easy to avoid as infantry, but like any protobear stomping squad if its an organized proto tank stomping squad you will find it hard

Protobear stomping = tank stomping

Its the same thing, except you dont like it because the shoe is on the other foot and kicking your arse

...

Aw, that's cute. Too bad a good Gunnlogi can cycle hardeners and be "shiny" for 60 seconds straight, leave for 15 seconds, and then do it again. Split it into 7 second cooldowns and you can cycle indefinitely. I don't even have that great a tank and I think I've lost a hanful of HAVs to Swarms since 1.7, usually because I was being bombarded by other HAVs, which would've killed me anyway. Infantry can be taken out in many different ways and are much easier to disable. Also, why shouldn't I win, you ask? Because I'm fighting 2 at once. Also, it's not that I shouldn't pop militia tanks, it's that if they're going to be so useless (aside from double amped Railgun Sicas, or Missiles if you only need to disable one armor tank) they need something else. You know, such as AV that kills things without 4 guys trying to take down one tank.

I've fought full squads of proto players that couldn't take me down using AV. Also, the problem is not 8 people taking down one tank. I can pull out a tank and blap one myself. It's 5 people trying to take down 5 tanks while the remaining 11 infantry wrestle for the terminals with the other 11 infantry. There's only 1 guy in each HAV usually. If you sacrifice any more than 1 guy to take one out, you're screwed, because your infantry are outnumbered. If you have 10 guys blapping 5 tanks, the infantry are outnumbered 11 to 6.

tank spam ruined dust

Why aren't you just driving an LAV in such a target rich environment?

notice something funny? everytime someone points towards tank balance issues, always the same guys which are known as just being bad tank pilots & hatemail writing scrubs step in defending it

So if your smart enough and have the correct fit you shouldnt ever be able to win against 2 tanks? lolno

Ive been in the same situation, ive had 2 blaster tanks unable to kill my logi because 1 of my fit, 2 my skill and 3 my experience in similar situations

5people taking down the 5 tanks are doing it wrong because you pick 1 tank and go after it and so on, also infantry wise 11v11 is fair

But this is pubs where matchmaking is broken and i generally dont care, PC is where it is and if tanks are now usful in that the most competitve enviroment then its a damn good start

It does not take smarts to activate two hardeners, burn one down, turn, burn the other guy down. A good tank squad that manages to get control at the beginning of the match rarely loses control. In fact, I have yet to see one lose more than 2-3 HAVs.

11 vs 11 is fair, yes. My point is to make the infantry odds even you end up with impossible odds on the tank front, or vice versa. My point was that you don't end up with the 11 vs 11, you end up with the 6 vs 11 because each guy cannot reliably restrain one HAV each. Usually two can't. I can have three on my ass and be perfectly fine. Also, while the AV guys can only target HAVs, the HAV can target both them and the infantry.

A good HAV squad can have a counter for everything and can deploy endless more HAVs if they want to. Infantry are not a problem, you can blap railguns at the beginning of of the match, cycled hardeners defeat 99% of AV, especially if you have more than one HAV, other HAVs, including railgun HAVs deploy slowly enough for you to swarm them and pop them as they come down.

The guy protostomping in a suit might have a 4.0 K/D. The guy protostomping in a tank can get a 20.0 K/D, average. I've seen tankers with weekly average K/Ds of 30.0 when they used to have 10.0s. There's satisfaction in popping protos, because it's not an impossible task and it costs them something. When there's 5 guys in proto turret and mod fitted tanks with assorted amped railguns, blasters and missiles, you'll be lucky to pop one of them. Even if you kill a whole bunch of them as AV, how many clones did you have to lose to kill one guy? Basically, if there was no quota, which would win? 16 tanks or 16 suits? Even when I get popped, I usually took out at least 10-15 infantry before that point. Even if they control the points, they get cloned.

It does not take smarts to activate two hardeners, burn one down, turn, burn the other guy down. A good tank squad that manages to get control at the beginning of the match rarely loses control. In fact, I have yet to see one lose more than 2-3 HAVs.

11 vs 11 is fair, yes. My point is to make the infantry odds even you end up with impossible odds on the tank front, or vice versa. My point was that you don't end up with the 11 vs 11, you end up with the 6 vs 11 because each guy cannot reliably restrain one HAV each. Usually two can't. I can have three on my ass and be perfectly fine. Also, while the AV guys can only target HAVs, the HAV can target both them and the infantry.

A good HAV squad can have a counter for everything and can deploy endless more HAVs if they want to. Infantry are not a problem, you can blap railguns at the beginning of of the match, cycled hardeners defeat 99% of AV, especially if you have more than one HAV, other HAVs, including railgun HAVs deploy slowly enough for you to swarm them and pop them as they come down.

The guy protostomping in a suit might have a 4.0 K/D. The guy protostomping in a tank can get a 20.0 K/D, average. I've seen tankers with weekly average K/Ds of 30.0 when they used to have 10.0s. There's satisfaction in popping protos, because it's not an impossible task and it costs them something. When there's 5 guys in proto turret and mod fitted tanks with assorted amped railguns, blasters and missiles, you'll be lucky to pop one of them. Even if you kill a whole bunch of them as AV, how many clones did you have to lose to kill one guy? Basically, if there was no quota, which would win? 16 tanks or 16 suits? Even when I get popped, I usually took out at least 10-15 infantry before that point. Even if they control the points, they get cloned.

Ive been in heavy tank games, we lose because we dont have the infantry to control the points

Then your AV is doing it wrong

So a good HAV squad is its own problem because they happen to be good

16 tanks vs 16suits - a tank cannot go through a door so in a city complex infantry win outside tho tanks win

Ive been in heavy tank games, we lose because we dont have the infantry to control the points

Then your AV is doing it wrong

So a good HAV squad is its own problem because they happen to be good

16 tanks vs 16suits - a tank cannot go through a door so in a city complex infantry win outside tho tanks win

I have to disagree and here is why :
I have been in a match where myself along with random bluedots have had 3 or more tanks on our team, we fought hard against any enemy tanks and defeated them all. We then proceeded to patrol the outlying areas and slaughtered infantry where ever we could.
We STILL lost the match because you want to know one thing about tanks?

Tanks dont capture points therefore they dont win you the game.

This is just my personal experience.
You can win against tanks if you use your head. Granted sometimes it feels like an uphill battle, so take a step back and evaluate the situation. If you keep running against a meat grinder then you are obviously doing something wrong.

...

Also people cant complain about organised teams beating un-organised rabbles which is something I keep seeing every now and again on these forums.

So many kids in tanks so little fuks given seriously every tank driver is **** they have to use a crutch in the game cuz there
A. KD is trash
B. Cod 13 year olds
C. CCP cant fix it
D. If ur obviosly a tanker reading this u obviously suk at the game because u provide no help whatsoever uu think udo but u dont
U cant get out to capture an objective and last of all now i made u mad LOL ;-)
MY 2 CENTS.