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Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4140	Posted - 2013.12.15 21:17:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not listing numbers because CCP already has them and if the community really needs them I suggest looking them up personally. Combat Rifle versus Burst Assault Rifle: Combat Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower resource costs and lower price. Rail Rifle versus Breach Assault Rifle: Rail Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, (much) longer range and lower price. Resource costs are higher though. Scrambler Rifle versus Tactical Assault Rifle: Scrambler Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower price and the ability to charge for three times the damage. Resource costs are much higher however. So, if all the races have their primary variant and the other races have designs that emulate that... Why is it that the Assault Rifle, being the primary weapon of the Gallente, has such similar DPS values to the emulators that it's literally single digit differences? The range is the shortest and yet even the Rail Rifle (once charged) overshadows it in the damage factor. If they're meant to emulate the Assault Rifle than why is it that it's being outclassed? Honestly, given that they have lower ranges, -all- the Assault Rifles should have higher damage dealing capability than the other rifles because that's what they were designed for. Close range, high damage capability. That's not what we're seeing here and when the Kaalakiota Assault Rail Rifle has replaced the Duvolle Assault Rifle as my primary armory, despite having such intensive skill investment into the Duvolle, there's something strange going on. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 4093	Posted - 2013.12.15 21:19:00 - [2] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm not listing numbers because CCP already has them and if the community really needs them I suggest looking them up personally. Combat Rifle versus Burst Assault Rifle: Combat Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower resource costs and lower price. Rail Rifle versus Breach Assault Rifle: Rail Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, (much) longer range and lower price. Resource costs are higher though. Scrambler Rifle versus Tactical Assault Rifle: Scrambler Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower price and the ability to charge for three times the damage. Resource costs are much higher however. So, if all the races have their primary variant and the other races have designs that emulate that... Why is it that the Assault Rifle, being the primary weapon of the Gallente, has such similar DPS values to the emulators that it's literally single digit differences? The range is the shortest and yet even the Rail Rifle (once charged) overshadows it in the damage factor. If they're meant to emulate the Assault Rifle than why is it that it's being outclassed? Honestly, given that they have lower ranges, -all- the Assault Rifles should have higher damage dealing capability than the other rifles because that's what they were designed for. Close range, high damage capability. That's not what we're seeing here and when the Kaalakiota Assault Rail Rifle has replaced the Duvolle Assault Rifle as my primary armory, despite having such intensive skill investment into the Duvolle, there's something strange going on. Amen to that. If it's going to be a Gallente weapon, make it Gallente. Anyone who gets within range should get wrecked before they even know what's going on. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 751	Posted - 2013.12.15 21:38:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Scrambler Rifle versus Tactical Assault Rifle: Scrambler Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower price and the ability to charge for three times the damage. Resource costs are much higher however. It also overheats, and that's always fun... Humanity is the personification of change.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 4093	Posted - 2013.12.15 21:52:00 - [4] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Scrambler Rifle versus Tactical Assault Rifle: Scrambler Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower price and the ability to charge for three times the damage. Resource costs are much higher however. It also overheats, and that's always fun... It's really easy to avoid the overheat though, especially when you can accomplish most kills in 3-4 shots if you track your target well. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
BL4CKST4R warravens League of Infamy 1362	Posted - 2013.12.15 21:56:00 - [5] - Quote Rail rifle should be absolutely horrible at short range, just like the Plasma rifle should be absolutely horrible at long range. The Combat rifle should be good at short range and extend slightly into long range, while the Scrambler rifle should be good at long range and extend slightly into short range.
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 542	Posted - 2013.12.15 22:01:00 - [6] - Quote Balancing in DUST514 makes no sense, therefore rifle balance doesn't make sense either.
Ensar Cael Dead Man's Game 47	Posted - 2013.12.15 22:03:00 - [7] - Quote The problem with all these weapons is the range. Its too ******* long and absolutely pointless for the most part. Getting killed from over 100 meters out by an AR, SCR, etc invalidates a large part of the game due tot he fact of the large damage that can still be done. In short to medium range these weapons should be stupidly devastating, but beyond 50-60 metres they should be weak. That makes for a more intense set of fights in a more tactical sense. Right now it's blast away and drop people super quick, super easy. TL;DR Too much damage at range on assault weapons. Kill damage rate massively after 50-60 meters. Flame away...
Xak Arji DIOS EX. 32	Posted - 2013.12.15 22:12:00 - [8] - Quote I think the ranges are fine, it's the damn time to kill. What's the point in having over 800 HP when it only last's 3 or 4 seconds under fire. Not to mention the maps have a severe lack of cover. each map is just a series of no - man's - land's put in different order. Even the "urban" maps have next to zero cover. You'd think that either 1: these space age engineers could make shields worth a damn, or 2: put a pile of bricks or something behind the hand rails. That would let the AR be more at home in the trenches vs storming across an open field against a dude with a rail rifle.
J'Hiera Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 47	Posted - 2013.12.15 22:42:00 - [9] - Quote I often switch from Rail to Breach since the scope is not optional. Im clumsy enough to fall down from ledges when strafing and shooting at someone from high ground. Breach is much more precise as it has almost no kick, but it is still lacking in damage. With its range, it could easily have Kaalakiota damage (60, isnt it?). Gallente weaponry makes absolutely no sense now. At all. I rarely find myself using one anymore, simply because the new ones do they task so much better.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 507	Posted - 2013.12.15 22:52:00 - [10] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm not listing numbers because CCP already has them and if the community really needs them I suggest looking them up personally. Combat Rifle versus Burst Assault Rifle: Combat Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower resource costs and lower price. Rail Rifle versus Breach Assault Rifle: Rail Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, (much) longer range and lower price. Resource costs are higher though. Scrambler Rifle versus Tactical Assault Rifle: Scrambler Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower price and the ability to charge for three times the damage. Resource costs are much higher however. So, if all the races have their primary variant and the other races have designs that emulate that... Why is it that the Assault Rifle, being the primary weapon of the Gallente, has such similar DPS values to the emulators that it's literally single digit differences? The range is the shortest and yet even the Rail Rifle (once charged) overshadows it in the damage factor. If they're meant to emulate the Assault Rifle than why is it that it's being outclassed? Honestly, given that they have lower ranges, -all- the Assault Rifles should have higher damage dealing capability than the other rifles because that's what they were designed for. Close range, high damage capability. That's not what we're seeing here and when the Kaalakiota Assault Rail Rifle has replaced the Duvolle Assault Rifle as my primary armory, despite having such intensive skill investment into the Duvolle, there's something strange going on. Just remember the inverse is true as well. All racial assault variants are mildly inferior in some way to the Gallente AR...which is by design. Gallente baseline is Assault, Caldari - Breach, Minmatar - burst, Amarr - tactical. Non baseline types of weapons from a given race are degraded forms of some other races baseline weapons. (Fully understand that las sentence is a mouthful - sorry) My point is the other weapons aren't meant to emulate the Assault Rifle...just the racial Assault Variants are.

Cosgar ParagonX 8735	Posted - 2013.12.15 23:50:00 - [11] - Quote Rethinking weapon range and damage profiles. It'd be a good way to round out the different rifle variants within racial traits without anything stepping on the toes of another and without making things redundant. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Stephen Seneca State Patriots Templis Dragonaors 17	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:03:00 - [12] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen is correct. Gallente AR is the best at short range, there is no denying that. Using Gallente tech means you will always have a tendency for CQC and shorter ranges and highest dps. The -variants- are just that. Variations from the base Gal AR. In no way should a variant rifle outperform the base rifle of the race it is emulating. I feel like there is a good balance between rifles right now. TTK is too short. Remove AA and the 10% damage buff. For the State! Keep your stick on the ice and get the pucks in deep, eh.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4142	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:18:00 - [13] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm not listing numbers because CCP already has them and if the community really needs them I suggest looking them up personally. Combat Rifle versus Burst Assault Rifle: Combat Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower resource costs and lower price. Rail Rifle versus Breach Assault Rifle: Rail Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, (much) longer range and lower price. Resource costs are higher though. Scrambler Rifle versus Tactical Assault Rifle: Scrambler Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower price and the ability to charge for three times the damage. Resource costs are much higher however. So, if all the races have their primary variant and the other races have designs that emulate that... Why is it that the Assault Rifle, being the primary weapon of the Gallente, has such similar DPS values to the emulators that it's literally single digit differences? The range is the shortest and yet even the Rail Rifle (once charged) overshadows it in the damage factor. If they're meant to emulate the Assault Rifle than why is it that it's being outclassed? Honestly, given that they have lower ranges, -all- the Assault Rifles should have higher damage dealing capability than the other rifles because that's what they were designed for. Close range, high damage capability. That's not what we're seeing here and when the Kaalakiota Assault Rail Rifle has replaced the Duvolle Assault Rifle as my primary armory, despite having such intensive skill investment into the Duvolle, there's something strange going on. Just remember the inverse is true as well. All racial assault variants are mildly inferior in some way to the Gallente AR...which is by design. Gallente baseline is Assault, Caldari - Breach, Minmatar - burst, Amarr - tactical. Non baseline types of weapons from a given race are degraded forms of some other races baseline weapons. (Fully understand that las sentence is a mouthful - sorry) My point is the other weapons aren't meant to emulate the Assault Rifle...just the racial Assault Variants are. Right, that's the entire point - the assault variants emulate the Assault Rifle but far too well and are arguably better. I don't see how the assault variants are in any way inferior to the Gallente AR, let alone 'mildly'. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4142	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:21:00 - [14] - Quote Stephen Seneca wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen is correct. Gallente AR is the best at short range, there is no denying that. Using Gallente tech means you will always have a tendency for CQC and shorter ranges and highest dps. The -variants- are just that. Variations from the base Gal AR. In no way should a variant rifle outperform the base rifle of the race it is emulating. I feel like there is a good balance between rifles right now. TTK is too short. Remove AA and the 10% damage buff. "In no way should a variant rifle outperform the base rifle of the race it is emulating." Than why have the DPS values so similar with longer ranges? Assault Scrambler Rifle doesn't even overheat, as much as someone would try to convince you - if you don't believe me grab one and just hold down the trigger; takes -magazines- to overheat it. Assault Rail Rifle performs as well if not better than the Assault Rifle once it's fully charged Assault Combat Rifle is arguably better overall because of it's low resource costs; similar damage output and longer range. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Stephen Seneca State Patriots Templis Dragonaors 17	Posted - 2013.12.16 00:46:00 - [15] - Quote I believe there is a good balance between base rifles. In between the variants are going to be a little blurry but there are many more factors that come down to milliseconds and various fittings. Personally still feel like the base AR can reach out and touch someone.. but that could just be player skill with the weapon. The assault RR doesnt spit out rounds like an AR or CR but you might get 3 in a row on someone in CQC in the head. From experience Id say I get lit up by all types of rifles in different circumstances. (Plus I just got a new to me lcd tv with bad input lag). Also from experience I would say the base rifles do perform as they should. Kalaakiota RR lighting me up at long ranges.. same with A/SCRs.. Boundless CR? ************ in tight just like a Duvolle. For the State! Keep your stick on the ice and get the pucks in deep, eh.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1819	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:04:00 - [16] - Quote Things aren't that out of whack, honestly. The damage profiles make a huge difference here. Currently I am seeing quite a few more suits stacking armor due to the general low TTK and armor can get higher numbers. The RR has a whopping 20% increased efficacy against armor when compared to the AR. It only makes sense that the CR and RR would have an edge in an environment filled with lots of armor tankers. When the balance of the game shifts to favor shields or people realize everybody is running weapons that wreak armor you'll have a bunch of targets that you can rip apart with the mainly anti-shield blaster tech. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1126	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:29:00 - [17] - Quote I think the balancing of these weapons is tricky due to individual player differences. For some players a low damage high RoF weapon (CR) will out perform a more average one (AR). I don't know that CCP could do this balancing without introducing the weapons to the player base then monitoring our performance with them. That being said I hope that they are looking at the number of kills each weapon is producing relative to the frequency the weapon is used by the Dust population. This kind of generalized analysis would allow CCP to look at overall performance of a weapon without regards to player skills (since the averages such a study would produce would include players of all skill levels). Once this is done CCP can begin to balance weapons, something they were clearly not able to do with their small in house testing team. Personally I think the rifles are close to balanced currently. Not perfectly balanced but close. Sure, something needs to be done to make each rifle better with its base variant but as a group the rifles complement rather than outperform each other. Fun > Realism
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 298	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:48:00 - [18] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm not listing numbers because CCP already has them and if the community really needs them I suggest looking them up personally. Combat Rifle versus Burst Assault Rifle: Combat Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower resource costs and lower price. Rail Rifle versus Breach Assault Rifle: Rail Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, (much) longer range and lower price. Resource costs are higher though. Scrambler Rifle versus Tactical Assault Rifle: Scrambler Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower price and the ability to charge for three times the damage. Resource costs are much higher however. So, if all the races have their primary variant and the other races have designs that emulate that... Why is it that the Assault Rifle, being the primary weapon of the Gallente, has such similar DPS values to the emulators that it's literally single digit differences? The range is the shortest and yet even the Rail Rifle (once charged) overshadows it in the damage factor. If they're meant to emulate the Assault Rifle than why is it that it's being outclassed? Honestly, given that they have lower ranges, -all- the Assault Rifles should have higher damage dealing capability than the other rifles because that's what they were designed for. Close range, high damage capability. That's not what we're seeing here and when the Kaalakiota Assault Rail Rifle has replaced the Duvolle Assault Rifle as my primary armory, despite having such intensive skill investment into the Duvolle, there's something strange going on. Just remember the inverse is true as well. All racial assault variants are mildly inferior in some way to the Gallente AR...which is by design. Gallente baseline is Assault, Caldari - Breach, Minmatar - burst, Amarr - tactical. Non baseline types of weapons from a given race are degraded forms of some other races baseline weapons. (Fully understand that las sentence is a mouthful - sorry) My point is the other weapons aren't meant to emulate the Assault Rifle...just the racial Assault Variants are. Right, that's the entire point - the assault variants emulate the Assault Rifle but far too well and are arguably better. I don't see how the assault variants are in any way inferior to the Gallente AR, let alone 'mildly'. Well if they add overheat to the tac,spool time to the breach whatever to burst then yeah but you lose the side effects of your variants Ascr still over heats tac ar doesn't yes they all emulate eachother but the retain stengths and weaknesses of ther race "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 608	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:09:00 - [19] - Quote TBH the Duvolle AR seems rather underwhelming in comparison to a CR of any type and the RR as well simply due to it's shorter range and the general lack of CQC currently being employed by most squads now that the longer engagement ranges are available (other than on objectives). It seems like a general purpose weapon still but lacks the ability to really engage most groups that are already engaging you while using them. LogiGod earns his pips
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 510	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:51:00 - [20] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: TBH the Duvolle AR seems rather underwhelming in comparison to a CR of any type and the RR as well simply due to it's shorter range and the general lack of CQC currently being employed by most squads now that the longer engagement ranges are available (other than on objectives). It seems like a general purpose weapon still but lacks the ability to really engage most groups that are already engaging you while using them. True...however, that's a bit of the point. A lot of it also depends on the map...in the Gallente research lab the CQC fights are pretty serious and the AR clearly out performs my RR. The .25 sec spool time is deadly during engagements inside 25meters...I routinely switch to my SMG when things get tight.

Fenrir XIII Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 14	Posted - 2013.12.16 03:10:00 - [21] - Quote It should be totally revamped and labeled a Blaster Rifle or whatever. And like the other ones, the standard version would include a scope, assault variant without the scope.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4142	Posted - 2013.12.16 04:15:00 - [22] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm not listing numbers because CCP already has them and if the community really needs them I suggest looking them up personally. Combat Rifle versus Burst Assault Rifle: Combat Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower resource costs and lower price. Rail Rifle versus Breach Assault Rifle: Rail Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, (much) longer range and lower price. Resource costs are higher though. Scrambler Rifle versus Tactical Assault Rifle: Scrambler Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower price and the ability to charge for three times the damage. Resource costs are much higher however. So, if all the races have their primary variant and the other races have designs that emulate that... Why is it that the Assault Rifle, being the primary weapon of the Gallente, has such similar DPS values to the emulators that it's literally single digit differences? The range is the shortest and yet even the Rail Rifle (once charged) overshadows it in the damage factor. If they're meant to emulate the Assault Rifle than why is it that it's being outclassed? Honestly, given that they have lower ranges, -all- the Assault Rifles should have higher damage dealing capability than the other rifles because that's what they were designed for. Close range, high damage capability. That's not what we're seeing here and when the Kaalakiota Assault Rail Rifle has replaced the Duvolle Assault Rifle as my primary armory, despite having such intensive skill investment into the Duvolle, there's something strange going on. Just remember the inverse is true as well. All racial assault variants are mildly inferior in some way to the Gallente AR...which is by design. Gallente baseline is Assault, Caldari - Breach, Minmatar - burst, Amarr - tactical. Non baseline types of weapons from a given race are degraded forms of some other races baseline weapons. (Fully understand that las sentence is a mouthful - sorry) My point is the other weapons aren't meant to emulate the Assault Rifle...just the racial Assault Variants are. Right, that's the entire point - the assault variants emulate the Assault Rifle but far too well and are arguably better. I don't see how the assault variants are in any way inferior to the Gallente AR, let alone 'mildly'. Well if they add overheat to the tac,spool time to the breach whatever to burst then yeah but you lose the side effects of your variants Ascr still over heats tac ar doesn't yes they all emulate eachother but the retain stengths and weaknesses of ther race ASCR doesn't overheat for almost two magazines, more if you're using Amarr Assault. If you meant the Scrambler rifle itself, it has that overheat because it has the ability to charge up a shot and deal three times the normal damage - even then it fires rounds that do more damage than the tactical rifle to begin with without the rate of fire stipulation but more importantly a fast trigger puller can hammer out 20-25 normal rounds before it overheats; that's more than the entire magazine on the Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle. The rewards far outweight the risks. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 4096	Posted - 2013.12.16 12:50:00 - [23] - Quote Fenrir XIII wrote: It should be totally revamped and labeled a Blaster Rifle or whatever. And like the other ones, the standard version would include a scope, assault variant without the scope. But see, the whole point is that the standard version is what the Assault variants of all the others are supposed to be copycatting. The issue is that it's inferior to the copycats, which is contrary to the design of every other weapon. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 354	Posted - 2013.12.16 13:04:00 - [24] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm not listing numbers because CCP already has them and if the community really needs them I suggest looking them up personally. Combat Rifle versus Burst Assault Rifle: Combat Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower resource costs and lower price. Rail Rifle versus Breach Assault Rifle: Rail Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, (much) longer range and lower price. Resource costs are higher though. Scrambler Rifle versus Tactical Assault Rifle: Scrambler Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower price and the ability to charge for three times the damage. Resource costs are much higher however. So, if all the races have their primary variant and the other races have designs that emulate that... Why is it that the Assault Rifle, being the primary weapon of the Gallente, has such similar DPS values to the emulators that it's literally single digit differences? The range is the shortest and yet even the Rail Rifle (once charged) overshadows it in the damage factor. If they're meant to emulate the Assault Rifle than why is it that it's being outclassed? Honestly, given that they have lower ranges, -all- the Assault Rifles should have higher damage dealing capability than the other rifles because that's what they were designed for. Close range, high damage capability. That's not what we're seeing here and when the Kaalakiota Assault Rail Rifle has replaced the Duvolle Assault Rifle as my primary armory, despite having such intensive skill investment into the Duvolle, there's something strange going on. Amen to that. If it's going to be a Gallente weapon, make it Gallente. Anyone who gets within range should get wrecked before they even know what's going on. I'll second that
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 695	Posted - 2013.12.16 13:14:00 - [25] - Quote I think the main problem with the current weapons is that the RR is at least 2x better at close range than it should be. If you take that away, the blaster rifle would have a better generalist niche, which is exactly what it should have been in the first place. Good in any situation, but able to be beaten by the weapon that's the best in the situation. You should be able to beat the RR up close and the CR at range, but get taken out in the opposite situations. It should never have been the godvolle. People got used to that and now think it's UP. It's not, it's just not OP any more. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4146	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:19:00 - [26] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I think the main problem with the current weapons is that the RR is at least 2x better at close range than it should be. If you take that away, the blaster rifle would have a better generalist niche, which is exactly what it should have been in the first place. Good in any situation, but able to be beaten by the weapon that's the best in the situation. You should be able to beat the RR up close and the CR at range, but get taken out in the opposite situations. It should never have been the godvolle. People got used to that and now think it's UP. It's not, it's just not OP any more. Nah dude, it was only ever over-powered because of the low TTK. Before the 10% increase to weapon damage back in like, Uprising 1.2, TTK seemed to take forever and that mostly due to shoddy hit detection and capped weapon ranges. The Plasma Rifle shouldn't be able to trump the Combat Rifle at range, the Combat Rifle was designed to have more range anyway. The Plasma Rifle SHOULD, however, be the absolute best there is in automatic fire at close range but it's comparable at best. No-one wants it to be OP or UP and saying "Nyeeeh the AR is OP!" is ignorant; I mean for christ's sake what you're basically saying is the the AR is no longer "OP" because they replaced it with a bunch of rifles that were MORE POWERFUL than it! All we want is for it to have it's niche, to be better than the emulators what it's supposed to be doing: Rapid dispatch of the enemy in close quarters. Doesn't make much sense if they all have the same DPS. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 697	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:57:00 - [27] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I think the main problem with the current weapons is that the RR is at least 2x better at close range than it should be. If you take that away, the blaster rifle would have a better generalist niche, which is exactly what it should have been in the first place. Good in any situation, but able to be beaten by the weapon that's the best in the situation. You should be able to beat the RR up close and the CR at range, but get taken out in the opposite situations. It should never have been the godvolle. People got used to that and now think it's UP. It's not, it's just not OP any more. Nah dude, it was only ever over-powered because of the low TTK. Before the 10% increase to weapon damage back in like, Uprising 1.2, TTK seemed to take forever and that mostly due to shoddy hit detection and capped weapon ranges. The Plasma Rifle shouldn't be able to trump the Combat Rifle at range, the Combat Rifle was designed to have more range anyway. The Plasma Rifle SHOULD, however, be the absolute best there is in automatic fire at close range but it's comparable at best. No-one wants it to be OP or UP and saying "Nyeeeh the AR is OP!" is ignorant; I mean for christ's sake what you're basically saying is the the AR is no longer "OP" because they replaced it with a bunch of rifles that were MORE POWERFUL than it! All we want is for it to have it's niche, to be better than the emulators what it's supposed to be doing: Rapid dispatch of the enemy in close quarters. Doesn't make much sense if they all have the same DPS. That's all well and good, if it really were a blaster/plasma rifle, but it's not ranged like that. The AR's optimal/effective range is wider than the ScR and the effective is not much less than the CR, maybe 5-6m at most; sorta generalist. If you cut those ranges down a little more then you could make a good argument that the DPS should be buffed to make it the king of CQC rifles but if you did that with the current range it becomes too good at everything else again imo. There may be some finer points of how the damage is applied across those ranges that I will admit you likely know much more about than I do but, lore aside, it looks like a generalist weapon to me. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Stephen Seneca State Patriots Templis Dragonaors 18	Posted - 2013.12.16 17:15:00 - [28] - Quote Like what John said. People using ARs could wreck everything before the new rifles came out. Now I have to worry about multiple types of rifles at all ranges. I used the Gek before the RR came out (Im Cal FW) without any proficiency skill and it was a mean piece of business.. and still is. For the State! Keep your stick on the ice and get the pucks in deep, eh.
Ghost Kaisar Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1185	Posted - 2013.12.16 17:31:00 - [29] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Scrambler Rifle versus Tactical Assault Rifle: Scrambler Rifle has higher damage rounds, faster rate of fire, longer range, lower price and the ability to charge for three times the damage. Resource costs are much higher however. It also overheats, and that's always fun... You realize that a Standard Assault (NOT AMARR) can burn through a clip and a half before overheat occurs right? If you are a good shot, that will NEVER happen. Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4146	Posted - 2013.12.16 18:50:00 - [30] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I think the main problem with the current weapons is that the RR is at least 2x better at close range than it should be. If you take that away, the blaster rifle would have a better generalist niche, which is exactly what it should have been in the first place. Good in any situation, but able to be beaten by the weapon that's the best in the situation. You should be able to beat the RR up close and the CR at range, but get taken out in the opposite situations. It should never have been the godvolle. People got used to that and now think it's UP. It's not, it's just not OP any more. Nah dude, it was only ever over-powered because of the low TTK. Before the 10% increase to weapon damage back in like, Uprising 1.2, TTK seemed to take forever and that mostly due to shoddy hit detection and capped weapon ranges. The Plasma Rifle shouldn't be able to trump the Combat Rifle at range, the Combat Rifle was designed to have more range anyway. The Plasma Rifle SHOULD, however, be the absolute best there is in automatic fire at close range but it's comparable at best. No-one wants it to be OP or UP and saying "Nyeeeh the AR is OP!" is ignorant; I mean for christ's sake what you're basically saying is the the AR is no longer "OP" because they replaced it with a bunch of rifles that were MORE POWERFUL than it! All we want is for it to have it's niche, to be better than the emulators what it's supposed to be doing: Rapid dispatch of the enemy in close quarters. Doesn't make much sense if they all have the same DPS. That's all well and good, if it really were a blaster/plasma rifle, but it's not ranged like that. The AR's optimal/effective range is wider than the ScR and the effective is not much less than the CR, maybe 5-6m at most; sorta generalist. If you cut those ranges down a little more then you could make a good argument that the DPS should be buffed to make it the king of CQC rifles but if you did that with the current range it becomes too good at everything else again imo. There may be some finer points of how the damage is applied across those ranges that I will admit you likely know much more about than I do but, lore aside, it looks like a generalist weapon to me. EDIT: neglected to mention you do have me on the CR range, I still have this concept in my head of the assault CR as a bigger SMG (or small HMG) but I guess thats not really accurate. http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65468/1/rangeprofiles.jpg I'd argue that the Assault Rifle and the Assault Scrambler Rifle have the same range difference between optimal and effective, if that's what you mean't. The Assault Combat Rifle -does- have a slightly longer range (6m) and it's honestly the most well balanced as an Assault Variant; having slightly longer range and very slightly less damage BUT it does have reduced resource costs that make it a very good contender. Sacrificing less to get comparable damage and slightly more range. But this argument falls apart when you compare the Burst Assault Rifle to the Combat Rifle in which the Combat Rifle is better overall. The Burst Assault isn't even a good copy-cat by it's own right, it's just worse off in every way. So, the question remains: Do we make the Assault Rifle the best 'assault' variant or do we buff the other Plasma Rifle variants to be comparable to what they're trying to emulate? forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201



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