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Mithridates VI
2133
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Posted - 2013.12.12 23:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Disregarding all of the "my thing got buffed, that is fair/my thing got nerfed, that is unfair" QQ, it occurs to me that the infantry/vehicle/anti-vehicle equation, is impossible to balance by changing variables in it: making one thing faster/slower or do more/less damage. The issue needs to be addressed at a much higher level with CCP fully laying out how they imagine these different elements of a battle coming together and relating to each other.
If vehicles require multiple players to take them out, what is disincentivising everyone from playing in vehicles? How many swarmers does it take to bring down a vehicle and is the cost (fewer infantry and pilots on that team) worth it or would everyone be better off just getting vehicles themselves or ignoring vehicles and playing as infantry?
Discuss. |
Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
218
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Posted - 2013.12.12 23:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
message from Godin: 1 swarmer to take out a vehicle. Nobody but a select few is doing it right. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2281
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Posted - 2013.12.12 23:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:message from Godin: 1 swarmer to take out a vehicle. Nobody but a select few is doing it right.
Tend to agree with this. I've taken out AV twice since 1.7 dropped. The first match, I killed 2 Gunloggi with advanced swarms. The second, I was locked down by infantry and unable to get into position, but was able to chase two tanks away to allow our team to take the objective (which is all I was trying to do given the inability to get into a good firing position).
What will be your legacy? Will you rise, or will you fall?
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Flix Keptick
Red Star.
EoN.
1556
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Posted - 2013.12.12 23:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:message from Godin: 1 swarmer to take out a vehicle. Nobody but a select few is doing it right. yep, very easy to do under the right circonstances (except if it's a shield tank).
Making AV an actual role
G˙åTank DriverG˙å
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Flix Keptick
Red Star.
EoN.
1556
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Posted - 2013.12.12 23:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Honestly it feels like av is ineffective because they are attacking at the wrong time with the wrong weapon.
To AV: Know your enemy better. The best is if you actually know how to tank properly.
Making AV an actual role
G˙åTank DriverG˙å
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
814
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Posted - 2013.12.12 23:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
I personally can't see a way that CCP can possibly balance AV & vehicles that doesn't either:-
a) leave tank drivers complaining that their tanks can be solo'd by infantry
or
b) turn the game into World of Tanks
It comes down to one simple question: should one player in a tank be more effective than one player not in a tank? If you answer "yes" to this you arrive at (b). If you answer "no" then you arrive at (a).
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
272
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Posted - 2013.12.12 23:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
How about keep tanks where they are now, and limit the amount that can be deployed at a time? perhaps 2 per side. This hurts them in pub matches, but would balance out more in PC and FW once team deploy is a thing. |
KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3058
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Posted - 2013.12.12 23:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:Disregarding all of the "my thing got buffed, that is fair/my thing got nerfed, that is unfair" QQ, it occurs to me that the infantry/vehicle/anti-vehicle equation, is impossible to balance by changing variables in it: making one thing faster/slower or do more/less damage. The issue needs to be addressed at a much higher level with CCP fully laying out how they imagine these different elements of a battle coming together and relating to each other.
If vehicles require multiple players to take them out, what is disincentivising everyone from playing in vehicles? How many swarmers does it take to bring down a vehicle and is the cost (fewer infantry and pilots on that team) worth it or would everyone be better off just getting vehicles themselves or ignoring vehicles and playing as infantry?
Discuss.
My FG fit is more expensive than MLT tanks. MLT = Full squad +
By the way, dont mind Godin, he wont ever talk balance,Hes a tanker who thinks hes god of AV.
he wants vehicles to be OP,as they are now.
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
3074
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Posted - 2013.12.12 23:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Impossible and difficult are two very different things my friend. 
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 3
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Mithridates VI
2134
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Impossible and difficult are two very different things my friend.
Is it? When you're working with CCP? |
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RedZer0 MK1
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
128
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Being able to "cripple" tanks like Battlefield I think would help. Or an idea I had a long time ago, AV grenades could slow vehicles down instead of dealing damage. |
Auris Lionesse
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
16
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Being able to "cripple" tanks like Battlefield I think would help. Or an idea I had a long time ago, AV grenades could slow vehicles down instead of dealing damage.
I like the cripple idea, would also like the ability for repair tools to kill tanks and enemies
introduce the slow grenade as a variant av grenade, maybe call it a nosferatu :D
Tank driving around then hits him with a nosferatu, slowing him as another logi and the first logi pull out repair tools and blow it up.
That could be fun.
...Or just have dice come in and fix vehicles apart from jets and helicopters they have their vehicle balance down pat. |
Sextus Hardcock
Blackwater Society
176
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:Disregarding all of the "my thing got buffed, that is fair/my thing got nerfed, that is unfair" QQ, it occurs to me that the infantry/vehicle/anti-vehicle equation, is impossible to balance by changing variables in it: making one thing faster/slower or do more/less damage. The issue needs to be addressed at a much higher level with CCP fully laying out how they imagine these different elements of a battle coming together and relating to each other.
If vehicles require multiple players to take them out, what is disincentivising everyone from playing in vehicles? How many swarmers does it take to bring down a vehicle and is the cost (fewer infantry and pilots on that team) worth it or would everyone be better off just getting vehicles themselves or ignoring vehicles and playing as infantry?
Discuss.
Perhaps CCP envisions nearly everyone to move around the battle field mounted (as it is in nearly every modern military in the real world), only dismounting to take objectives or ground with good cover that only infantry can traverse (where AV holds the advantage anyway)
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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
2217
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Truthfully in order for us to judge the balance, everything must be in the package. And its not. So I think its too early to judge.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8721
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
0 SP
59,000 ISK
Soma
Long walks on the beach
Profit
Vids / O7
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RedZer0 MK1
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
128
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Being able to "cripple" tanks like Battlefield I think would help. Or an idea I had a long time ago, AV grenades could slow vehicles down instead of dealing damage. I like the cripple idea, would also like the ability for repair tools to kill tanks and enemies introduce the slow grenade as a variant av grenade, maybe call it a nosferatu :D Tank driving around then hits him with a nosferatu, slowing him as another logi and the first logi pull out repair tools and blow it up. That could be fun. ...Or just have dice come in and fix vehicles apart from jets and helicopters they have their vehicle balance down pat.
Yeah, a lot of people on here talk down about BF, but their vehicle/infantry interaction is second to none. The repair tool as a damage engine is a no brainer. So many games have done it, surprised CPP didn't have it from the start. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2629
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
I demand you return our calls! |
TEXA5 HiTM4N
ROGUE SPADES
330
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
The real problem with this game is the majority of the devs. whoever makes these decisions really needs to removed. CCP does not know the meaning of tweaking. they either make something really OP or useless. it is stupid how incompetent they are. this rage comes from hard freezing in 3 pcs and 5 pubs. lag and hardfreezing in pubs is a new low.
Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
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Mithridates VI
2135
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:I demand you return our calls!
Nobody calls me anymore :( |
Mithridates VI
2135
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Truthfully in order for us to judge the balance, everything must be in the package. And its not. So I think its too early to judge.
When will be an appropriate time to judge? Three years from now we'll have people saying "MTAC's aren't in yet, so we can't judge."
The game needs to work in the meantime. |
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Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2629
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Posted - 2013.12.13 01:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:I demand you return our calls! Nobody calls me anymore :(
We're all on skype. |
Foxbat 071
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
101
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Posted - 2013.12.13 01:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'd like to see tanks as the main AV force. Tanks can't win without infantry, infantry can't win without tanks. I don't like seeing tanks stomping everyone but I do feel they should be relevant.
BLAP
( X ) Call For Help
( O ) Respawn
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1352
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Posted - 2013.12.13 01:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
This is a data collection exercise. The price of tanks has been set low to remove the barrier to entry and attract the risk-adverse.
ISK should never be part of the balancing equation, CCP knows this better than anybody, so what we're seeing now is a more pure version of game mechanics vs. game mechanics.
It won't last forever - for those of us trying to prove a point the best place to do that is on the battlefield.
I support SP rollover.
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m621 zma
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
66
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Posted - 2013.12.13 02:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Remove HAV and Assault dropships from ambush matches. Solves the issues. Tankers can then **** off to skirmish and play world of tanks to their hearts content - cos lets face it they won't get out to hack anything. |
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