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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4819
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Posted - 2013.12.19 16:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:Yes, if this was a subscription based game.
As it stands...
No chance,
It completely destroys CCPs p[ayment model for dust 514, the whole point of tiers is to allow players to pay-up tiers for faster advancement. Therefore making CCP money so they can continue to develop the game.
/me coughs something that sounds like factional boosters
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1894
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Posted - 2013.12.19 16:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Killar-12 wrote:So less modules or a tiny bonus, you're a dumbass if you don't know what 90% of people will choose
Better to go T-1 Basic T-2 Assault, Logi, Scout, etc T-3 Specialist stuff (Assaults with special bonuses Range, Damage, Cooldown) You really need to be more specific. I don't understand what you mean by "less modules" I never said anything about less modules. As for you "T-x" thing, are you referring to Tier or Tech levels? If Tier, then you are mising up all the different "classes" of suits. Scout would have each of those tiers, so would assault, so would logi, etc. Mixing them up makes everything even more "cookie-cutter" and over-simplifies this game. What your list seems to allude to is the Dropsuit Operation SKill itself where level 1 could get you access to light suits, level 3 access to medium suits, and level 5 access to heavy suits. If that is what you are trying to do? Okay, never mind... thought you were going on about something else I meant if there's a suit with 3H 2L slots or a 5H 4L which will most choose if you're referring to MLT-PRO
I mean that it is better to just instead of having different STD, ADV and PRO bonuses to have different Tech 2 and Tech 3 Variants with different bonuses.
A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
262
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Posted - 2013.12.19 16:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:iceyburnz wrote:Yes, if this was a subscription based game.
As it stands...
No chance,
It completely destroys CCPs p[ayment model for dust 514, the whole point of tiers is to allow players to pay-up tiers for faster advancement. Therefore making CCP money so they can continue to develop the game.
No one is buying suits and other consumables with real money in large numbers. Most aur purchases are for boosters and bpo items. Ccp needs to make aur for boosters and cosmetic items only.
Actually, there are a lot of players using the AUR gear. It provides a LOT of versatility right away. So instead of grinding forever to get to the proto-suits, you just skill into the advanced ones and buy the AUR proto versions for use in matches that you really care about like FW or PC.
As for how to reconcile this with tiercide of the dropsuits (if they did that), just make it so that the AUR versions of the suits have the skill level bonuses built into them. Meaning you skill into level 1 of Minmatar Assault Dropsuit Skill from my previous example: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1632216#post1632216 Using that example you would only get the level 1 bonus on each suit with is not much. So in the Advanced example this would only be +5% shield recharge and +2% reload speed. But there could be 3 AUR versions of that suit:
- Advanced Minmatar Assault Dropsuit AUR level 1 - no sills need to use and gives a flat +5% to dropsuit shield recharge rate; +2% to projectile weapon reload speed
- Advanced Minmatar Assault Dropsuit AUR level 2 - requires level 1 Minmatar Assault Dropsuit skill to use and gives a flat +15% to dropsuit shield recharge rate; +6% to projectile weapon reload speed
- Advanced Minmatar Assault Dropsuit AUR level 3 - requires level 3 Minmatar Assault Dropsuit skill to use and gives a flat +25% to dropsuit shield recharge rate; +10% to projectile weapon reload speed
This would still make people that only want to skill up partially into a type of suit able to pay to get the full effects as they do now.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
262
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Posted - 2013.12.19 16:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Okay, never mind... thought you were going on about something else I meant if there's a suit with 3H 2L slots or a 5H 4L which will most choose if you're referring to MLT-PRO
I mean that it is better to just instead of having different STD, ADV and PRO bonuses to have different Tech 2 and Tech 3 Variants with different bonuses.
Oh I see. No they would nominally have the same base stats (with maybe a few slight tweaks here and there for armor, shield, etc). This would include similar if not same slot layouts.
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Meeko Fent
State Patriots Templis De Novo
1720
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Posted - 2013.12.19 16:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM has been hard pressing for this and are unanimous on the 'concept' now how to go about it varies between cpms though. Compromise time?
DUST is a half decent game.
Be happy its free.
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Meeko Fent
State Patriots Templis De Novo
1720
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Posted - 2013.12.19 16:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:iceyburnz wrote:Yes, if this was a subscription based game.
As it stands...
No chance,
It completely destroys CCPs p[ayment model for dust 514, the whole point of tiers is to allow players to pay-up tiers for faster advancement. Therefore making CCP money so they can continue to develop the game.
No one is buying suits and other consumables with real money in large numbers. Most aur purchases are for boosters and bpo items. Ccp needs to make aur for boosters and cosmetic items only. Yeah...
I want to paint all my suits bright safety orange.
Just fixing the roads man. Don't hit me!
DUST is a half decent game.
Be happy its free.
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1894
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Posted - 2013.12.19 16:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Okay, never mind... thought you were going on about something else I meant if there's a suit with 3H 2L slots or a 5H 4L which will most choose if you're referring to MLT-PRO
I mean that it is better to just instead of having different STD, ADV and PRO bonuses to have different Tech 2 and Tech 3 Variants with different bonuses. Oh I see. No they would nominally have the same base stats (with maybe a few slight tweaks here and there for armor, shield, etc). This would include similar if not same slot layouts. Okay I get you I like it
A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
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Thorn Badblood
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
117
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Posted - 2013.12.19 17:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tiercide is all well and good but first they need to fix the skills that do nothing but unlock the next tier. Anyone trained dropsuit command to 5? I don't know anyone who has or why they would even bother.
D2D. A Non-Prophet Organization
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1894
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Posted - 2013.12.19 17:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
Thorn Badblood wrote:Tiercide is all well and good but first they need to fix the skills that do nothing but unlock the next tier. Anyone trained dropsuit command to 5? I don't know anyone who has or why they would even bother. Agreed
A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
730
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Posted - 2013.12.19 17:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
I hate the idea of tiericide. It destroys the risk vs. ISK mechanic of this game, which is its most compelling feature.
In EVE there was never a reason to fly certain ships because they were stepping stones. Tiericide addressed this by making all ships have relatively equal power within a category, but they still have huge meta differences (e.g. The Omen, Navy Omen, Zealot, Legion). A DUST analog would be like making sure the Sentinals and Commando suits were equally as strong in their respective roles.
I find myself running STD, ADV, and PRO tier suits all of the time depending on the situation. Making choices about how much ISK to lay on the line each respawn is one of the most interesting/compelling dynamics this game has to offer. If this is being considered primarily to combat the problems with proto stomping new players and ruining the NPE, there are MUCH better alternative solutions that don't break the game. I would like to see an optional 2nd tier academy where new players can play in easier matches up to x SP (somewhere around 2-5 mil).
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1895
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Posted - 2013.12.19 17:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I hate the idea of tiericide. It destroys the risk vs. ISK mechanic of this game, which is its most compelling feature.
In EVE there was never a reason to fly certain ships because they were stepping stones. Tiericide addressed this by making all ships have relatively equal power within a category, but they still have huge meta differences (e.g. The Omen, Navy Omen, Zealot, Legion). A DUST analog would be like making sure the Sentinals and Commando suits were equally as strong in their respective roles.
I find myself running STD, ADV, and PRO tier suits all of the time depending on the situation. Making choices about how much ISK to lay on the line each respawn is one of the most interesting/compelling dynamics this game has to offer. If this is being considered primarily to combat the problems with proto stomping new players and ruining the NPE, there are MUCH better alternative solutions that don't break the game. I would like to see an optional 2nd tier academy where new players can play in easier matches up to x SP (somewhere around 2-5 mil). CCP won't fix the academy unless something is broken they don't want it
A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
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Alldin Kan
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
863
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Posted - 2013.12.19 17:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I hate the idea of tiericide. It destroys the risk vs. ISK mechanic of this game, which is its most compelling feature.
In EVE there was never a reason to fly certain ships because they were stepping stones. Tiericide addressed this by making all ships have relatively equal power within a category, but they still have huge meta differences (e.g. The Omen, Navy Omen, Zealot, Legion). A DUST analog would be like making sure the Sentinals and Commando suits were equally as strong in their respective roles.
I find myself running STD, ADV, and PRO tier suits all of the time depending on the situation. Making choices about how much ISK to lay on the line each respawn is one of the most interesting/compelling dynamics this game has to offer. If this is being considered primarily to combat the problems with proto stomping new players and ruining the NPE, there are MUCH better alternative solutions that don't break the game. I would like to see an optional 2nd tier academy where new players can play in easier matches up to x SP (somewhere around 2-5 mil). ...and this is why I will never approve tiercide for dropsuits.
Uprising 1.7 - TANKDOMINATION!!1!!1!
LOL Commando
LOL Plasma Cannon
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
263
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Posted - 2013.12.19 17:31:00 -
[43] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:Vell0cet wrote:I hate the idea of tiericide. It destroys the risk vs. ISK mechanic of this game, which is its most compelling feature.
In EVE there was never a reason to fly certain ships because they were stepping stones. Tiericide addressed this by making all ships have relatively equal power within a category, but they still have huge meta differences (e.g. The Omen, Navy Omen, Zealot, Legion). A DUST analog would be like making sure the Sentinals and Commando suits were equally as strong in their respective roles.
I find myself running STD, ADV, and PRO tier suits all of the time depending on the situation. Making choices about how much ISK to lay on the line each respawn is one of the most interesting/compelling dynamics this game has to offer. If this is being considered primarily to combat the problems with proto stomping new players and ruining the NPE, there are MUCH better alternative solutions that don't break the game. I would like to see an optional 2nd tier academy where new players can play in easier matches up to x SP (somewhere around 2-5 mil). ...and this is why I will never approve tiercide for dropsuits.
And I agree with you for how things are setup now, but in the future, they WILL release Tech Level II items and then Tiercide becomes more necessary. That is why I suggested something like: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1632216#post1632216 Change the names of the suits to be whatever you want so that it's like the EVE example you made with the different ship names, but it amounts to the same thing. I didn't say that the different suits wouldn't have different costs in ISK. And as I stated, they can have somewhat (but equally balanced) layouts and stats to better effect their roles etc. But the end result is each suit would still have a "purpose" and get used just as you say you are using them now. some would be more expensive, while others less so, but still all of them useful.
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Tiny Pineapple
Army of 420's Lokun Listamenn
46
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Posted - 2013.12.19 18:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I hate the idea of tiericide. It destroys the risk vs. ISK mechanic of this game, which is its most compelling feature.
In EVE there was never a reason to fly certain ships because they were stepping stones. Tiericide addressed this by making all ships have relatively equal power within a category, but they still have huge meta differences (e.g. The Omen, Navy Omen, Zealot, Legion). A DUST analog would be like making sure the Sentinals and Commando suits were equally as strong in their respective roles.
I find myself running STD, ADV, and PRO tier suits all of the time depending on the situation. Making choices about how much ISK to lay on the line each respawn is one of the most interesting/compelling dynamics this game has to offer. If this is being considered primarily to combat the problems with proto stomping new players and ruining the NPE, there are MUCH better alternative solutions that don't break the game. I would like to see an optional 2nd tier academy where new players can play in easier matches up to x SP (somewhere around 2-5 mil). You're forgetting that the cost of dropsuits only make up a small portion of the cost of your fittings, the rest is modules, equipment and weapons. Dropsuits will have tiercide but everything else won't so if you want to risk less ISK then use basic modules and weapons. |
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