DUST Search - Why is there a complaint on TTK now?

Cosgar wrote:

Rowdy Railgunner wrote:

Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:

With the multiple avenues of delivering very high levels of DPS the defensive tools available to players haven't caught up. Essentially it's making proto fittings significantly less relevant and to some degree proto weapons. This is particularly acute now that hit detection is sharp and pretty much where it needs to be.

Consider this...
- 10% across the board damage to compensate for poor hit detection from several months ago is still in effect.
- Proficiency level V pull you another 15% ...ps I've never seen how my rounds hit harder the more proficient I am with a weapon except in this game.
- complex damage mods - between 10% to 24% on top of the other damage buffs.
...this is why a BPO Toxin AR can cut through a proto suit in about a second and a half. That and the AR has little to no recoil for a significant burst of 20-30 rounds.

I hope the new rifles will adjust this a bit as different play styles become more viable. That said, offense outperforms defense at the moment.

So the question I ask is what advantage should the SP and ISK for your proto suit, complex mods, and proto weapon get you when they can be countered so easily? What is the subjective "feel" we are looking for with Proto gear vs like gear of proto vs lower tier gear?

Or maybe people are finding out their gun game isn't up to par even though they have proto everything and the first excuse is that TTK is too low. If I only had another 5 seconds to kill that guy I would be happy.

No, I run away from losing fights all the time in my proto suit, ADV. suit, hell even my 600 HP BPO suit and I don't even have 5s in everything yet. 100 hp left, 20 hp left... Good gun game is not just standing there or circle strafing and expecting to win every battle like I see these proto noobs doing all the time.

Good gun game is not getting caught in the open, ducking in and out of cover and applying good shots down range. Good gun game is tactical awareness and having your head on a swivel. And most important is a decent escape route for when you need to retreat and red up.

So quit with the TTK is too low threads. You only make yourself look like a poor sport and a noob and GET-GUD SON.

You're confusing gun game with twitch skills. This was supposed to be a thinking man's FPS, not a FTP COD with future aesthetics. Sounds like you don't want to give anyone the decency to be able to shoot back at you so you pray that CCP keeps things broken like they are now. Who really needs to "get good?"

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Zion Shad WarRavens League of Infamy 2005	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:03:00 - [1] - Quote I have played the new maps and most game modes (no Ambush) and not understanding the Time to Kill complaint. The maps appear to be the same size as before, DLinks are still being placed and vehicles have a little more get up&go. Is this complaint Just in Ambush? Now this is what I see and experience. Now if you can explain well or show me an example I will back you if sound. I just don't see it yet... Or at all. Leave good feedback here thanks Co-Owner of Multiplexgaming.com Co-Host of PODSIDE & MPXPrimetime
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 198	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:09:00 - [2] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: I have played the new maps and most game modes (no Ambush) and not understanding the Time to Kill complaint. The maps appear to be the same size as before, DLinks are still being placed and vehicles have a little more get up&go. Is this complaint Just in Ambush? Now this is what I see and experience. Now if you can explain well or show me an example I will back you if sound. I just don't see it yet... Or at all. Because it kills ALL the "tank" option. Now having more eHp doesnot means ANYTHING. Now it's the one who stack them ore damager who wins. Everybody can almost "Instant kill" as he want. All the "Rpg" side of the game is dead because of that. Heavy is even more useless than before and can't even tank like it's supposed to. If i wanted to play COD/BF i go play COD/BF. Short TTK is not Dust it's abberation. What the point about making good fitting if at the end everybody can kill everybody as easy because you kill in 2sec ? You see it it dies. That's not a RPG/FPS that's a FPS. The main problem is that short TTK is not with all weapons but ONLY with weapons affected by hit detection : Assault Rifles. Combat Rifles Rail rifles SMG The others have a right DPS sorry but short TTK kills all the "Dust souls" and make it an another poor generic shooter.
gabriel login Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 89	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:09:00 - [3] - Quote isr kills my 337 shields an 150 armor in half a sec thats just 1 .
Zion Shad WarRavens League of Infamy 2005	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:19:00 - [4] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine: Hmm I will see how this post turns out and then I'll do an experiment vid to see some examples. It would be nice to know how different fits hold up against different weapons in 1.7 Co-Owner of Multiplexgaming.com Co-Host of PODSIDE & MPXPrimetime
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 84	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:21:00 - [5] - Quote gabriel login wrote: isr kills my 337 shields an 150 armor in half a sec thats just 1 . thats only 37 more hitpoints than my completely free untanked amarr frontline assault starter fit wtf do you expect?
Buddha Brown Factory Fresh 473	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:30:00 - [6] - Quote I'm thinking it comes from a large amount of shield tankers who are getting popped by SCR's, happens to me in a flash w 650+ ehp fits. Just have to pick your battles, don't really think it's an issue so much as people refusing to change tactics.
Zahle Undt Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 522	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:31:00 - [7] - Quote It's not a new complaint exactly. People like myself have been complaining about it for a couple updates now I think. Since at least 1.6 but I think more like 1.5. Anyway as it was posted it it's making Dust a twitch shooter and not the rpg/fps hybrid I and others want. I still think a 10% weapon damage decrease or 10% base Shields and armor buff across the board is the easiest fix for it
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2575	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:35:00 - [8] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: I have played the new maps and most game modes (no Ambush) and not understanding the Time to Kill complaint. The maps appear to be the same size as before, DLinks are still being placed and vehicles have a little more get up&go. Is this complaint Just in Ambush? Now this is what I see and experience. Now if you can explain well or show me an example I will back you if sound. I just don't see it yet... Or at all. Leave good feedback here thanks Because anyone with a Rail or Combat rifle can shoot you at any range, there's no strategic approach to fighting anyone anymore, they all look at you and shoot. No.
RECON BY FIRE Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 321	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:36:00 - [9] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: I have played the new maps and most game modes (no Ambush) and not understanding the Time to Kill complaint. The maps appear to be the same size as before, DLinks are still being placed and vehicles have a little more get up&go. Is this complaint Just in Ambush? Now this is what I see and experience. Now if you can explain well or show me an example I will back you if sound. I just don't see it yet... Or at all. Leave good feedback here thanks What do any of these points you make have to do with TTK? Stuff....?
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 694	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:37:00 - [10] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: It's not a new complaint exactly. People like myself have been complaining about it for a couple updates now I think. Since at least 1.6 but I think more like 1.5. Anyway as it was posted it it's making Dust a twitch shooter and not the rpg/fps hybrid I and others want. I still think a 10% weapon damage decrease or 10% base Shields and armor buff across the board is the easiest fix for it Exactly... since what 1.4? You're just hearing this now Zion Shad ? Where have you been ?

Rowdy Railgunner Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 228	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:38:00 - [11] - Quote What's funny is people think the TTK is actually low. Go play any other shooter where you are dead in a nanosecond and then come back to DUST. 2-3 seconds is a long time to live while taking fire in a FPS. Anyone who says otherwise may as well tell CCP to just make DUST a turn based game.
Zion Shad WarRavens League of Infamy 2005	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:40:00 - [12] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Zion Shad wrote: I have played the new maps and most game modes (no Ambush) and not understanding the Time to Kill complaint. The maps appear to be the same size as before, DLinks are still being placed and vehicles have a little more get up&go. Is this complaint Just in Ambush? Now this is what I see and experience. Now if you can explain well or show me an example I will back you if sound. I just don't see it yet... Or at all. Leave good feedback here thanks What do any of these points you make have to do with TTK? Ill change it just for you Co-Owner of Multiplexgaming.com Co-Host of PODSIDE & MPXPrimetime
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 490	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:41:00 - [13] - Quote With the multiple avenues of delivering very high levels of DPS the defensive tools available to players haven't caught up. Essentially it's making proto fittings significantly less relevant and to some degree proto weapons. This is particularly acute now that hit detection is sharp and pretty much where it needs to be. Consider this... - 10% across the board damage to compensate for poor hit detection from several months ago is still in effect. - Proficiency level V pull you another 15% ...ps I've never seen how my rounds hit harder the more proficient I am with a weapon except in this game. - complex damage mods - between 10% to 24% on top of the other damage buffs. ...this is why a BPO Toxin AR can cut through a proto suit in about a second and a half. That and the AR has little to no recoil for a significant burst of 20-30 rounds. I hope the new rifles will adjust this a bit as different play styles become more viable. That said, offense outperforms defense at the moment. So the question I ask is what advantage should the SP and ISK for your proto suit, complex mods, and proto weapon get you when they can be countered so easily? What is the subjective "feel" we are looking for with Proto gear vs like gear of proto vs lower tier gear?
Cosgar ParagonX 8546	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:46:00 - [14] - Quote Hitscan weapons have a glaring advantage over non hitscan ones, gunplay has been reduced to high HP + DPS = instant win, there's no incentive to use or skill into higher tier gear when free fits do the job with little risk, weapons have been balanced around bad hit detection allowing them to deal their full DPS in a second with little recoil, and it's just plain not fun as it makes Dust a generic twitch FPS when other games do it better. None of this was intended as we started experiencing this problems when hit detection was finally fixed. This was not a decision by CCP, just a side effect from fixing a core issue. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 84	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:51:00 - [15] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: What's funny is people think the TTK is actually low. Go play any other shooter where you are dead in a nanosecond and then come back to DUST. 2-3 seconds is a long time to live while taking fire in a FPS. Anyone who says otherwise may as well tell CCP to just make DUST a turn based game. 2-3 seconds is alot of zen time compaired to getting insta killed by a m14 in cod 4 or the lightning gun in quake or rockets in halo or any other weapon in any other good game you care to mention
Zion Shad WarRavens League of Infamy 2005	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:51:00 - [16] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Exactly... since what 1.4? You're just hearing this now Zion Shad ? Where have you been ? Well bolsh If you like I can be on in about 6 hours or so and we can talk all about. You want to squad up? Co-Owner of Multiplexgaming.com Co-Host of PODSIDE & MPXPrimetime
Joel II X Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 315	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:53:00 - [17] - Quote I could've sworn I saw this thread months back...
Rowdy Railgunner Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 228	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:55:00 - [18] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: With the multiple avenues of delivering very high levels of DPS the defensive tools available to players haven't caught up. Essentially it's making proto fittings significantly less relevant and to some degree proto weapons. This is particularly acute now that hit detection is sharp and pretty much where it needs to be. Consider this... - 10% across the board damage to compensate for poor hit detection from several months ago is still in effect. - Proficiency level V pull you another 15% ...ps I've never seen how my rounds hit harder the more proficient I am with a weapon except in this game. - complex damage mods - between 10% to 24% on top of the other damage buffs. ...this is why a BPO Toxin AR can cut through a proto suit in about a second and a half. That and the AR has little to no recoil for a significant burst of 20-30 rounds. I hope the new rifles will adjust this a bit as different play styles become more viable. That said, offense outperforms defense at the moment. So the question I ask is what advantage should the SP and ISK for your proto suit, complex mods, and proto weapon get you when they can be countered so easily? What is the subjective "feel" we are looking for with Proto gear vs like gear of proto vs lower tier gear? Or maybe people are finding out their gun game isn't up to par even though they have proto everything and the first excuse is that TTK is too low. If I only had another 5 seconds to kill that guy I would be happy. No, I run away from losing fights all the time in my proto suit, ADV. suit, hell even my 600 HP BPO suit and I don't even have 5s in everything yet. 100 hp left, 20 hp left... Good gun game is not just standing there or circle strafing and expecting to win every battle like I see these proto noobs doing all the time. Good gun game is not getting caught in the open, ducking in and out of cover and applying good shots down range. Good gun game is tactical awareness and having your head on a swivel. And most important is a decent escape route for when you need to retreat and red up. So quit with the TTK is too low threads. You only make yourself look like a poor sport and a noob and GET-GUD SON.
Zion Shad WarRavens League of Infamy 2005	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:57:00 - [19] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I could've sworn I saw this thread months back... Things change. Players complain no hit detection and no ones can be killed to now we are killing Mercs way to fast. I'm trying to see where the balance is and get you guys some answers Co-Owner of Multiplexgaming.com Co-Host of PODSIDE & MPXPrimetime
Cosgar ParagonX 8546	Posted - 2013.12.11 20:58:00 - [20] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: What's funny is people think the TTK is actually low. Go play any other shooter where you are dead in a nanosecond and then come back to DUST. 2-3 seconds is a long time to live while taking fire in a FPS. Anyone who says otherwise may as well tell CCP to just make DUST a turn based game. Might as well be turn based since core gunplay elements like strafing are entirely watered down for damage mods, extenders and plates determining the outcome of a fight. What's the point of having scanning and electronics modules? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1261	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:00:00 - [21] - Quote I called this 2-3 months ago. just sayin Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 84	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:02:00 - [22] - Quote another reason you are seeing complaints about ttk is you can only get so powerfull, people catch up and start to narrow the gap back down to skill and reactions. just my opinion ccp did say back in the closed beta that skill would trump gear, everybody forgot that?
Cosgar ParagonX 8547	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:03:00 - [23] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: With the multiple avenues of delivering very high levels of DPS the defensive tools available to players haven't caught up. Essentially it's making proto fittings significantly less relevant and to some degree proto weapons. This is particularly acute now that hit detection is sharp and pretty much where it needs to be. Consider this... - 10% across the board damage to compensate for poor hit detection from several months ago is still in effect. - Proficiency level V pull you another 15% ...ps I've never seen how my rounds hit harder the more proficient I am with a weapon except in this game. - complex damage mods - between 10% to 24% on top of the other damage buffs. ...this is why a BPO Toxin AR can cut through a proto suit in about a second and a half. That and the AR has little to no recoil for a significant burst of 20-30 rounds. I hope the new rifles will adjust this a bit as different play styles become more viable. That said, offense outperforms defense at the moment. So the question I ask is what advantage should the SP and ISK for your proto suit, complex mods, and proto weapon get you when they can be countered so easily? What is the subjective "feel" we are looking for with Proto gear vs like gear of proto vs lower tier gear? Or maybe people are finding out their gun game isn't up to par even though they have proto everything and the first excuse is that TTK is too low. If I only had another 5 seconds to kill that guy I would be happy. No, I run away from losing fights all the time in my proto suit, ADV. suit, hell even my 600 HP BPO suit and I don't even have 5s in everything yet. 100 hp left, 20 hp left... Good gun game is not just standing there or circle strafing and expecting to win every battle like I see these proto noobs doing all the time. Good gun game is not getting caught in the open, ducking in and out of cover and applying good shots down range. Good gun game is tactical awareness and having your head on a swivel. And most important is a decent escape route for when you need to retreat and red up. So quit with the TTK is too low threads. You only make yourself look like a poor sport and a noob and GET-GUD SON. You're confusing gun game with twitch skills. This was supposed to be a thinking man's FPS, not a FTP COD with future aesthetics. Sounds like you don't want to give anyone the decency to be able to shoot back at you so you pray that CCP keeps things broken like they are now. Who really needs to "get good?" I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Buddha Brown Factory Fresh 473	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:07:00 - [24] - Quote Well, fair to say everyone is aware of the lower TTK and knows that's the way the game is going to be for the foreseeable future. Seems they should just change up their tactics instead of complaining about it, would certainly save a lot of tears.
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 150	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:07:00 - [25] - Quote Despite all the complaining I see about time to kill, I actually do notice a longer time to kill on my scout...Trust me, your armor means something. I dont tank or run damage mods, just ewar things thus far...and Its annoying to kill every last one of you. I manage it most of the time, but its still a pain in the ass. Tanking does actually have an effect. I prefer fighting someone who stacked damage mods over someone who has **** tons of armor plates. They die much easier Dedicated scout. New player tutor; scout instructor Scrambler Pistol dedication
Kane Fyea 2354	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:10:00 - [26] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: With the multiple avenues of delivering very high levels of DPS the defensive tools available to players haven't caught up. Essentially it's making proto fittings significantly less relevant and to some degree proto weapons. This is particularly acute now that hit detection is sharp and pretty much where it needs to be. Consider this... - 10% across the board damage to compensate for poor hit detection from several months ago is still in effect. - Proficiency level V pull you another 15% ...ps I've never seen how my rounds hit harder the more proficient I am with a weapon except in this game. - complex damage mods - between 10% to 24% on top of the other damage buffs. ...this is why a BPO Toxin AR can cut through a proto suit in about a second and a half. That and the AR has little to no recoil for a significant burst of 20-30 rounds. I hope the new rifles will adjust this a bit as different play styles become more viable. That said, offense outperforms defense at the moment. So the question I ask is what advantage should the SP and ISK for your proto suit, complex mods, and proto weapon get you when they can be countered so easily? What is the subjective "feel" we are looking for with Proto gear vs like gear of proto vs lower tier gear? Or maybe people are finding out their gun game isn't up to par even though they have proto everything and the first excuse is that TTK is too low. If I only had another 5 seconds to kill that guy I would be happy. No, I run away from losing fights all the time in my proto suit, ADV. suit, hell even my 600 HP BPO suit and I don't even have 5s in everything yet. 100 hp left, 20 hp left... Good gun game is not just standing there or circle strafing and expecting to win every battle like I see these proto noobs doing all the time. Good gun game is not getting caught in the open, ducking in and out of cover and applying good shots down range. Good gun game is tactical awareness and having your head on a swivel. And most important is a decent escape route for when you need to retreat and red up. So quit with the TTK is too low threads. You only make yourself look like a poor sport and a noob and GET-GUD SON. Do you know what a high health strafe shooter is? If you don't then I suggest stop talking. (Dust is supposed to be a high health strafe shooter not a low health twitch shooter like call of duty)
Rowdy Railgunner Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 232	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:10:00 - [27] - Quote Cosgar wrote: You're confusing gun game with twitch skills. This was supposed to be a thinking man's FPS, not a FTP COD with future aesthetics. Sounds like you don't want to give anyone the decency to be able to shoot back at you so you pray that CCP keeps things broken like they are now. Who really needs to "get good?" First rule of combat: Try to finish with the same number of holes in your body you started with. The less people are shooting at me the better. You should of not let me get behind you.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 84	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:11:00 - [28] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: With the multiple avenues of delivering very high levels of DPS the defensive tools available to players haven't caught up. Essentially it's making proto fittings significantly less relevant and to some degree proto weapons. This is particularly acute now that hit detection is sharp and pretty much where it needs to be. Consider this... - 10% across the board damage to compensate for poor hit detection from several months ago is still in effect. - Proficiency level V pull you another 15% ...ps I've never seen how my rounds hit harder the more proficient I am with a weapon except in this game. - complex damage mods - between 10% to 24% on top of the other damage buffs. ...this is why a BPO Toxin AR can cut through a proto suit in about a second and a half. That and the AR has little to no recoil for a significant burst of 20-30 rounds. I hope the new rifles will adjust this a bit as different play styles become more viable. That said, offense outperforms defense at the moment. So the question I ask is what advantage should the SP and ISK for your proto suit, complex mods, and proto weapon get you when they can be countered so easily? What is the subjective "feel" we are looking for with Proto gear vs like gear of proto vs lower tier gear? Or maybe people are finding out their gun game isn't up to par even though they have proto everything and the first excuse is that TTK is too low. If I only had another 5 seconds to kill that guy I would be happy. No, I run away from losing fights all the time in my proto suit, ADV. suit, hell even my 600 HP BPO suit and I don't even have 5s in everything yet. 100 hp left, 20 hp left... Good gun game is not just standing there or circle strafing and expecting to win every battle like I see these proto noobs doing all the time. Good gun game is not getting caught in the open, ducking in and out of cover and applying good shots down range. Good gun game is tactical awareness and having your head on a swivel. And most important is a decent escape route for when you need to retreat and red up. So quit with the TTK is too low threads. You only make yourself look like a poor sport and a noob and GET-GUD SON. You're confusing gun game with twitch skills. This was supposed to be a thinking man's FPS, not a FTP COD with future aesthetics. Sounds like you don't want to give anyone the decency to be able to shoot back at you so you pray that CCP keeps things broken like they are now. Who really needs to "get good?" and you want an automatic get out of free jail card just for been playing longer in a game that isnt turn based and requires skill, see how easy that is to turn around?
Beeeees KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 336	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:13:00 - [29] - Quote Im usually the one telling people to GIT GUD, and even I see that TTK is a problem. Auto aim + high DPS weps like the Duvolle + hit detection fixed leads to instakilling anything that is not proto. TTK is the reason nobody uses non-hitscan weapons except for grenade spamming. Combat repping is unviable in any situation ever. Heavies are slow assaults with heavy weapons, scouts are stillborn. Speed tank is unviable. Crowd Control is impossible because OHK from stacked damage mods negates any time window one may need to fire a second shot from the MD. The list goes on.
Cosgar ParagonX 8548	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:15:00 - [30] - Quote Keep defending your broken mechanics. Your tears will be extra delicious when it gets fixed. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"



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